Problems with the Pit Bull RC store and its tires.

[tjohanne]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I finally got mine.

Going back to where these things are made - look at the tag. The top right says "Honor, guts & glory" with the American flag, but then in the center it says "Made in Taiwan." Classy.

I agree it's funny but it's understandable. They could be more open about it, though. Practically everything is made in China. And that's good for us, otherwise very few could afford this hobby.

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[tjohanne]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I agree. The new Pitbull foams are rock hard. They don't want to hear it. They said they can't please everybody, which is true, but I think most people agree that they are too stiff for light rigs.

The Vaterra TSLs are harder and definitely don't work as well as Proline tires.

I guess the pbx/at 1.9 foam is not that type? I find them quite soft.

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[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by tjohanne

I agree it's funny but it's understandable. They could be more open about it, though. Practically everything is made in China. And that's good for us, otherwise very few could afford this hobby.

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Proline tires are manufactured in the US and they cost half of what Pit Bull tires cost. Pit Bull can't be passing any savings onto the consumer.

Think about that...

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by tjohanne

I agree it's funny but it's understandable. They could be more open about it, though. Practically everything is made in China. And that's good for us, otherwise very few could afford this hobby.

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It would be nice if they could at least orient the flag correctly.

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Proline tires are manufactured in the US and they cost half of what Pit Bull tires cost. Pit Bull can't be passing any savings onto the consumer.

Think about that...

At least the Pit Bulls are made in Taiwan and not China. I realize that most people consider it all the same, but in reality it's not. Not only is Taiwan a multi party democracy, but I've found the quality of their products to generally be on par with that of US-made products, and generally far better than equivalent products from China.

[Browneye]

Originally Posted by tjohanne

I guess the pbx/at 1.9 foam is not that type? I find them quite soft.

New foams - see my pics above.

The RB 4.45" tires have really nice dual stage foams. The new XL's have this new hard compound gray foam. I shaved down the shoulders of the foams and I think they'll work, but we'll see. Same pic series up-thread.

After comparing the PL Krawlers side by side I'm not as excited about the Pitbulls, although PL's are not any cheaper if you get the discount deal on PB's.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

At least the Pit Bulls are made in Taiwan and not China. I realize that most people consider it all the same, but in reality it's not. Not only is Taiwan a multi party democracy, but I've found the quality of their products to generally be on par with that of US-made products, and generally far better than equivalent products from China.

I think a lot of people don't understand that China, or any other Asian company, will manufacture to the standards you demand. If you accept low quality items they will produce low quality items. If you find a vendor that can and will produce high quality items then that is what you'll received.

You can't summarize that vendors in China are worse than vendors in Taiwan.

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I think a lot of people don't understand that China, or any other Asian company, will manufacture to the standards you demand. If you accept low quality items they will produce low quality items. If you find a vendor that can and will produce high quality items then that is what you'll received.

You can't summarize that vendors in China are worse than vendors in Taiwan.

I'm well aware of the notion that they are capable of higher quality, but in talking with a number of importers, it seems that most of them complain that the initial quality is very good, and then it systematically declines slowly to the point where it becomes necessary to do an incoming inspection on every single part if they're critical parts. My understanding is that the Chinese government encourages it's manufacturers to cheapen the product over time as a cost saving measure. There's a story going around of some sort of structural item that's used in building construction that was found to have lost 10% of its mass over the production run.

One importer of speaker drivers that I've talked to said that at one point it got so bad that he had to reject 50% of the drivers he received. His initial rejection percentages were somewhere under 10%. This huge rejection rate pushed his costs up high enough that I believe he eventually found a new manufacturer on a different continent. I certainly don't have first-hand experience with these products, but I have had conversations with the guys who design and contract companies to build their products, and I've heard the same story from most of them, so I tend to believe that it's got some legitimacy. Your mileage may vary. I know that many larger companies have had to resort to putting quality control reps at the factory to help mitigate these issues.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

I'm well aware of the notion that they are capable of higher quality, but in talking with a number of importers, it seems that most of them complain that the initial quality is very good, and then it systematically declines slowly to the point where it becomes necessary to do an incoming inspection on every single part if they're critical parts. My understanding is that the Chinese government encourages it's manufacturers to cheapen the product over time as a cost saving measure. There's a story going around of some sort of structural item that's used in building construction that was found to have lost 10% of its mass over the production run.

One importer of speaker drivers that I've talked to said that at one point it got so bad that he had to reject 50% of the drivers he received. His initial rejection percentages were somewhere under 10%. This huge rejection rate pushed his costs up high enough that I believe he eventually found a new manufacturer on a different continent. I certainly don't have first-hand experience with these products, but I have had conversations with the guys who design and contract companies to build their products, and I've heard the same story from most of them, so I tend to believe that it's got some legitimacy. Your mileage may vary. I know that many larger companies have had to resort to putting quality control reps at the factory to help mitigate these issues.

I wasn't saying you, specifically, didn't know the process.

I've dealt with China as an outside vendor. When they made bad stuff we rejected it until we got what we wanted. Obviously that's a different potential struggle that I didn't deal with since I'm not in purchasing.

I haven't dealt with Taiwan, but I have heard they are "better" than China. At the end of the day they are vendors and they do what you pay them to do. Does China let quality slip? I'm sure. That's typical of most vendors of any origin if you don't keep a close eye on quality. And they won't improve quality unless you push back.

China produces a lot of products from electronics to raw steel and anything in between. We've come to accept China as a manufacturer in many aspects of life so I don't know why people bulk at China building toys and parts for said toys...

[HumboldtEF]

I got my tire order Monday, received the shipping notice Tuesday, now that's fast shipping

I'm okay with how they handled it, but it is funny.

[Browneye]

Their shipment came in so there's no backorder or waiting. It is funny how that works.


More on foams...
I picked up some CI standard foams for 4.75, a medium and a soft. Not sure why the ribbed 'comp' version of the inner core is that way or how it works differently, so I saved $6 on the two pairs and got the standards.

I am surprised how firm the inner core is - it's way hard stuff, even compared to the new RBXL foams. I installed the CI's in the other pair of tires. With the shaved down outer edges on the stock RBXL foams they are very hard to tell the difference compared to the CI's. I'll run them both and see what they do offroad. I can see the stock PB foams might be good for a heavier rig for sure.

The stock Proline foams now seem REALLY soft in comparison. I have them on the front of my rig and see how they do compared to the CI's. These are in the Krawler tires. Stock in the front, CI standard/med in the rears.

Seems like the CI foams would prevent the sidewall rolling way over when turning and side-hilling, but still a soft tread for grip. I can see now why they're so popular.

I also ordered CI 4.0 foams for my Braven Ironsides. Same deal here, the stock PB foams seem REALLY hard - like pucks. LOL

[HumboldtEF]

Originally Posted by Browneye

Not sure why the ribbed 'comp' version of the inner core is that way or how it works differently

The groves just provide more space for the outer foam to be pushed into, so just a bit softer but still providing support.

I've had both and cant say I've seen a noticeable difference, though I usually spring for the comp cut.

[Itali83]

The 4.0 lil novas are way too soft for the braven iron sides. I got a set with medium outers and the tires look almost flat with the truck just sitting on the bench. Not to be negative but don't get your hopes up. I'd try the 4.25 lil novas with medium or soft outers.

Ben

[Browneye]

Originally Posted by Itali83

The 4.0 lil novas are way too soft for the braven iron sides. I got a set with medium outers and the tires look almost flat with the truck just sitting on the bench. Not to be negative but don't get your hopes up. I'd try the 4.25 lil novas with medium or soft outers.

Ben

A day late and a dollar short - they already arrived and have been installed.

They seem perfect but I have not mounted them on the rig nor run them, so we'll see.

I thought the stock foams, even with the shoulders shaved down, were like pucks. Oh well.

I was able to add 2oz weights to these wheels too. Will put them on the truck and test them. I can always put another layer of foam in them. Or go back to the stock foams if the CI's are too soft.

[Ditchrat]

Originally Posted by tjohanne

I agree it's funny but it's understandable. They could be more open about it, though. Practically everything is made in China. And that's good for us, otherwise very few could afford this hobby.

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Cut them some slack. Right from their website.

Features:
ALIEN Kompound^TM - STICKIER THAN ALIEN SNOT!!! They seem to get better and better as they break in... and you can use them for your daily hobby time as well as competition... RIGHT OUTTA DA BOX!!!!

Multi-varied tread blocks - create an alternating biting pattern for maximum traction, especially in off-camber situations

Inside ribbing - provides sidewall support and stability
Stone Kickers - oh yeah!

Over-the-shoulder lugs - that wrap down the sidewall and add extra strength & traction to the shoulder & sidewall areas

4.19-inch UNMounted Diameter* - 4.19x1.35-1.9. *Dimensions may vary depending on mounted rim width used.
Tires come 2 to a packet w/decals - yes, we include a cool decal sheet

Foam included - OH YEAH!


Made in Taiwan - yes we went overseas for production of these RC tires. Taiwan is a hybrid democracy, so we don't feel too bad about it.

[Browneye]

@Itali83 - Yep, you were right, those CI 4.0 foams are too soft.
Mounted the wheels up and test drove and they flatten out to the inner core just sitting there.
I'm going to try stuffing the extra outer skins from the 4.75's and see how that does.

Bummer man.

[tjohanne]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

Proline tires are manufactured in the US and they cost half of what Pit Bull tires cost. Pit Bull can't be passing any savings onto the consumer.

Think about that...

That's great. I.I'm not saying it's impossible, but if everything in my home country should be home grown (Norway), I wouldn't be able to afford drawing breath, basically... China helps us relieve that in certain ways..

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[tjohanne]

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

It would be nice if they could at least orient the flag correctly.

I agree!

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[tjohanne]

Originally Posted by Browneye

New foams - see my pics above.

The RB 4.45" tires have really nice dual stage foams. The new XL's have this new hard compound gray foam. I shaved down the shoulders of the foams and I think they'll work, but we'll see. Same pic series up-thread.

After comparing the PL Krawlers side by side I'm not as excited about the Pitbulls, although PL's are not any cheaper if you get the discount deal on PB's.

I agree. I have the same Prolines. Love them!

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[tjohanne]

Originally Posted by Ditchrat

Cut them some slack. Right from their website.

I'm not against that at all

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