Gibson Guitars is in deep s**t, as well...

[skinnyj]

Since bankruptcy seems to be the theme of Q1, 2018, here is another titan in their field that could be facing hard time this year:

Gibson may default if it doesn't refinance debt

Being a long time musician, sadly, this is not shocking. Gibson, a long associated image in rock & roll, has been a victim of slipping market share, misguided product offerings, over-priced stagnant designs, shoddy workmanship and general mismanagement that starts with owner Henry J.

When a new Les Paul costs $2800-4000 new and ships with peeling binding, crappy setup, bad frets, ect, that is eventually going to come home to roost.

[Jim85IROC]

As you said, not surprising.

My guitar instructor bought a brand new LP Standard T less than a year ago. The bridge & tailpiece chrome started peeling immediately. The finish is delaminating in a few spots.

My 10 year old Epi LP is suffering none of these problems, and if you close your eyes, they play the same. They sound different because of very different pickups and hardware (I have a Duncan bridge pickup), but not drastically.

[vonclod]

Originally Posted by skinnyj

Since bankruptcy seems to be the theme of Q1, 2018, here is another titan in their field that could be facing hard time this year:

Gibson may default if it doesn't refinance debt

Being a long time musician, sadly, this is not shocking. Gibson, a long associated image in rock & roll, has been a victim of slipping market share, misguided product offerings, over-priced stagnant designs, shoddy workmanship and general mismanagement that starts with owner Henry J.

When a new Les Paul costs $2800-4000 new and ships with peeling binding, crappy setup, bad frets, ect, that is eventually going to come home to roost.

The fretwork on a lot of guitars is shit nowdays.
I have an LP studio I bought about 6 yrs ago..bare bones, no maple cap, the fretwork is decent but have to take it in due to electronics failing.

[OSRC]

Probably started around the same time the feds seized their inventory. That'll cause some damage...

https://www.npr.org/sections/thereco...ice-department

[skinnyj]

They had issues long before that debacle.

[high plains drifter]

Yea... this has been coming for a long time. Production Schecter's, PRS SE's, etc with better QC and at a fraction of the price is only further leveling the playing field... although there's certainly more to Gibson's woes than competition.

Paid over $1k for my 2017 HP SG and I had to completely refinish the fret-board right off the bat b/c it was so rough. Set-up wasn't bad but it's sad that they're sending out guitars with these kinds of issues. I also had to re-finish raw-wood around the tail-piece anchors which I've never had to do on any of my guitars. Add to all this, the fact that I had to pull and re-seat both pups due to them tilting back severely ( too much spring tension). I decided to keep it since it otherwise felt fantastic to play but man, that was a lot to go through just to get it where it should've been when it left Tennessee. I'd still like to eventually get an LP but it won't be a Gibson... It'll more likely be an Edwards or Epiphone.

Anyway.. Good excuse to post my SG with a good long list of mods including Gotoh tuners ( hated the g-force), poker chip, traditional top-hat knobs & truss-rod cover, etc, etc. Also changed creme-colored pup-rings and scratch-plate to black as well as replaced all the chrome screws with black.

[vonclod]

If only the Epiphones had a nitrocellulose finish, often they have US Gibson pickups..there wouldnt be much to set them apart tone wise.
I actually think Epi do a very nice job with fit and finish, I have one with a real unique birds eye maple finish.

[high plains drifter]

Agree on the nitro finish for sure. I've been pretty impressed with Epi's offerings in recent years ( aside from some models having that atrociously lavish inlay on the head-stock). Really well built guitars with seemingly more consistent QC than Gibson. I'll bet that BEM finish looks gorgeous!

[Peaker]

It suck when a good company are run into the ground by poor management, and worst of all its the same guys that take home the huge wages.

And when you hear about how a place are run ( like where my little sister have worked ) then you just go WTF how is that possible, not least for a private company.

[Jim85IROC]

Originally Posted by vonclod

The fretwork on a lot of guitars is shit nowdays.

Maybe on Gibsons, but not so much on cheap Asian imports. I have a strat copy that I paid $60 brand new from Monoprice. It came with the lowest action I've ever played on a guitar and didn't have a single noisy spot anywhere on the neck. The fret ends were finished nicely and didn't even show file scratches. On a $60 guitar!!!! The action was so low that I couldn't bend the strings for shit and ended up raising it up. That guitar has a flawless finish, a smooth neck, perfect fret work and played beautifully once I raised up the action. The only complaint I had about the guitar was that the bridge sucks. $60. Gibson can't build a guitar this good for $2,000.

I love Gibsons, and I hope to have a real Les Paul someday, but unless they learn how to make a good one again, you can bet I won't be buying new.

Honest to god, $60 guitar.

[skinnyj]

Originally Posted by vonclod

If only the Epiphones had a nitrocellulose finish, often they have US Gibson pickups..there wouldnt be much to set them apart tone wise.
I actually think Epi do a very nice job with fit and finish, I have one with a real unique birds eye maple finish.

If only Epiphones didn't have that ugly ass head stock!

They have come a long way in quality. I played a friends Epi against my 87 LP Standard back in the 90s, and the Epi just felt like junk. A few years ago, a band mate bought a Epi LP Custom and that guitar was really nice. It was quite the turn around!

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

Maybe on Gibsons, but not so much on cheap Asian imports. I have a strat copy that I paid $60 brand new from Monoprice. It came with the lowest action I've ever played on a guitar and didn't have a single noisy spot anywhere on the neck. The fret ends were finished nicely and didn't even show file scratches. On a $60 guitar!!!! The action was so low that I couldn't bend the strings for shit and ended up raising it up. That guitar has a flawless finish, a smooth neck, perfect fret work and played beautifully once I raised up the action. The only complaint I had about the guitar was that the bridge sucks. $60. Gibson can't build a guitar this good for $2,000.

I love Gibsons, and I hope to have a real Les Paul someday, but unless they learn how to make a good one again, you can bet I won't be buying new.

Honest to god, $60 guitar.

My American Standard Strat came from the factory with slinky, super low action. If it had a scalloped fret board it would be in Yngwie Malmsteen territory, that's how fast that neck is.

Even since I was 15, I wanted a Les Paul. All my heroes played them. Now, I wouldn't touch a Gibson with a 10 foot pole. I'd probably look into Keisel Guitars (formerly Carvin Custom Shop) for my next major guitar purchase. From what I heard, their quality is excellent and the prices are more than fair for a custom instrument.

Keisel Guitars

[skinnyj]

Originally Posted by vonclod

The fretwork on a lot of guitars is shit nowdays.
I have an LP studio I bought about 6 yrs ago..bare bones, no maple cap, the fretwork is decent but have to take it in due to electronics failing.

Another Gibson blunder...

Did yours have those board mounted pots and pickups with plugs?

Much like RC guys, guitar players like to mod and tinker. Imagine opening up your $4000 Les Paul so you can change out the pickups only to find a PCB board holding everything together in the control cavity? Man, people went ballistic over that when that came out.

[wings_of_fire]

Originally Posted by Peaker

It suck when a good company are run into the ground by poor management, and worst of all its the same guys that take home the huge wages.

And when you hear about how a place are run ( like where my little sister have worked ) then you just go WTF how is that possible, not least for a private company.

It usually starts degrading after the business owners passion fades.

People that jump into management positions after a college degree or through work experience, rarely have anything common in relation to that business, yet they have all the powers to control the company.

Pleasing the upper boss is the biggest tragedy in business hierarchy. It gives rise to a culture of failure.

[skinnyj]

You should read articles about trying to please Henry Juszkiewicz, Gibson's chairman. This guy sounds like a complete nut-job.

Bringing in people that have no experience to the actual product can be damaging. I've heard many stories about small and mid-size companies hiring an MBA bean counter to help boost profits only to have them almost destroy the company because they have no knowledge of the product or it's production.

An example:

A friend of mine was a die cutter. They typically make decent money. Die cutting is all in the setup. Once the machine is set and running, he just stands there and checks every 500-1000th sheet for quality. The company got sold and the new owners' "bean counter" looked at the production floor and saw all these guys "just standing there". He laid them all off and brought in guys for half the money. That move almost killed the company, as these "cheaper" guys had no clue what they were doing. Jobs were bouncing left and right and accounts were being lost. They had to bring the old crew back and pay them even more money.