2.2 class question

[Sneff]

I was just curious as to why no 4 wheel steering is allowed in 2.2 crawling compitition??
Seems to me that if the trucks are able to use all 4 wheels why not use them. Everyone would have the same advantage or disadvantage.

[nitromtcrawler]

IMO is because the 2.2 class is more of a driver class not so much of the rig. but thats my opinion so ......

[Robb]

Originally Posted by Sneff

Everyone would have the same advantage or disadvantage.

By not allowing 4ws does the same thing right?


It is more of a scale class, and most 1:1s (that would fit into the rest of the 2.2 rules in the real world), wouldn't have 4ws.

[Sneff]

Originally Posted by Robb

By not allowing 4ws does the same thing right?


It is more of a scale class, and most 1:1s (that would fit into the rest of the 2.2 rules in the real world), wouldn't have 4ws.

Yeah but if the trucks are easily able to acheive 4ws which they are, why not use it??

[joecrawler]

Its been gone over a million times + 1, the 2.2 class is a drivers class. SO that people who don't want to run 4 wheel steering don't have to run it to be competitive.

[Sneff]

hey well pardon me for asking a question on a forum!!

[DISTURBIN' tha PEACE]

2.2 is not a driver class, nor is it a spec class.

It was voted on & shot down.

4ws would just make it too easy. All the crappy drivers could more easily correct themselves.

[JeepManMarc]

I also think that rule is BS, all 2.2 is is a scaled down version of the super class, same rules should apply. As for it beiing more of a scale class, I thought that most clubs now had a scale class for those rigs since generally its hard to compete a truly scale truck against a stick TLT for example.. Just my .02 since we are on the subject..

[Wookiebiker]

Originally Posted by DISTURBIN' tha PEACE

4ws would just make it too easy. All the crappy drivers could more easily correct themselves.

So essentially instead of having 4WS they allow a 2nd servo for front "Dig" which allows basically the same turning radius. The difference is 4WS is easy and anybody can do it, front "Dig" is harder for the beginning cralwer to do and gives a big advantage to those that both know how to do it and drive.

Makes sense to me....

[BENDER]

Originally Posted by JeepManMarc

I also think that rule is BS, all 2.2 is is a scaled down version of the super class, same rules should apply.

The Super Class has no wheelbase restrictions, the 2.2 Class does. That and 2ws keeps the playing field somewhat level.

Originally Posted by Wookiebiker

So essentially instead of having 4WS they allow a 2nd servo for front "Dig" which allows basically the same turning radius. The difference is 4WS is easy and anybody can do it, front "Dig" is harder for the beginning cralwer to do and gives a big advantage to those that both know how to do it and drive.

Makes sense to me....

Front dig can help, but isn't a must. No one here in Colorado runs front dig in the 2.2 Class. 4WS will get you out of situations where front dig will never help.

[JeepManMarc]

I understand the wheelbase restriction but again, that all goes back to before many clubs decided to seperate 2.2 from scale, therefore the 12.5 wheelbase restriction isnt needed if it isnt meant to be a scale class also.

[Robb]

Keep fighting dude!! You are sure to win this argument!!!

[Wookiebiker]

Originally Posted by BENDER

Front dig can help, but isn't a must. No one here in Colorado runs front dig in the 2.2 Class. 4WS will get you out of situations where front dig will never help.

Regardless, it's still a big advantage over those that don't have it. If the course doesn't require tight steering they just don't use it. If it does, it's there to help.

If the class is supposed to be a "Drivers" class, then why allow the 2nd servo at all? Seems to give an advantage to those that have it and it's not an easy or readily available upgrade to the average enthousiast.

I've been around long enough to know that rules are made by those that know how to get around them.

[jason]

The rules were originally written like this to mimic the full size competition crawlers. The "unlimited" class could use rear steering, the "legends" class couldn't.

Also going from the 1:1 world, the lower class in any sanctioning body still does not allow rear steer, yet it would almost be impossible to find a fullsize competition level crawler in any class that doesn't have the ability to do front digs, or suck the suspension down with winches.

Originally Posted by Wookiebiker

I've been around long enough to know that rules are made by those that know how to get around them.

The USRCCA rules were written by a group of crawlers made up of 1 member of each club in the USRCCA. These people look at every angle of the rules to help clear them up as much as possible to avoid any grey areas. Will there still be grey areas, of course, but we all work hard to minimize them.

[BENDER]

Originally Posted by Wookiebiker

Regardless, it's still a big advantage over those that don't have it. If the course doesn't require tight steering they just don't use it. If it does, it's there to help.

If the class is supposed to be a "Drivers" class, then why allow the 2nd servo at all? Seems to give an advantage to those that have it and it's not an easy or readily available upgrade to the average enthousiast.

I've been around long enough to know that rules are made by those that know how to get around them.

I don't see it as an advantage myself, otherwise I'd run it. I've seen front dig hurt more then help. One way is when the driveshaft won't re-engage. That and it's extra weight.

[Wookiebiker]

Originally Posted by jason

The USRCCA rules were written by a group of crawlers made up of 1 member of each club in the USRCCA. These people look at every angle of the rules to help clear them up as much as possible to avoid any grey areas. Will there still be grey areas, of course, but we all work hard to minimize them.

So again, I'd ask: Why allow a 2nd servo if you are trying to avoid "Grey" areas? That does nothing but set the class up for a world of "Grey" area. That allows things like "Dig" and winched suspension and anything else somebody can tthink to do with a 2nd servo.

I'll state it again: Rules are made by those that know how to get around them. That doesn't make it right or wrong, just that those that make the rules know (and have the ability) to get around them.

[JeepManMarc]

Originally Posted by Robb

Keep fighting dude!! You are sure to win this argument!!!

Hope you arent talking to me because I could care less either way, I was just curious as to why the rules were created as so. Jason answered my question pretty well, thanks.

-Marc

[Sneff]

Sorry guys, I really wasnt trying to start an arguement over this!! was just curious.
The guys in my area arent competing, we just go out and have fun. was just curious as to why they didnt allow it.
Thanx to Bender and a few other guys that actually took the time to anser my question.

[Unholy]

Originally Posted by Wookiebiker

So again, I'd ask: Why allow a 2nd servo if you are trying to avoid "Grey" areas? That does nothing but set the class up for a world of "Grey" area. That allows things like "Dig" and winched suspension and anything else somebody can tthink to do with a 2nd servo.

I'll state it again: Rules are made by those that know how to get around them. That doesn't make it right or wrong, just that those that make the rules know (and have the ability) to get around them.

Jason explained that the rules committee was made up of 1 rep from each club. To further define that for you, these reps asked their clubs how they should vote on each proposed rule change.

Rear steer in 2.2 lost by majority vote.
Dig was allowed by majority vote.

You can complain and make sly references about the rules being made by those who can work around them all you want and it will accomplish nothing but making you look silly. The simple fact is, the rules were voted on by consensus of all the recognized competing crawlers... not a few who are smart enough to use dig.

If you want to make a difference, join/start a club recognized by the USRCCA and have your opinion voiced where it matters.

This goes for everyone that has their panties in a bunch about any of the rules.

[jason]

Originally Posted by Wookiebiker

So again, I'd ask: Why allow a 2nd servo if you are trying to avoid "Grey" areas?

Originally Posted by jason

Also going from the 1:1 world, the lower class in any sanctioning body still does not allow rear steer, yet it would almost be impossible to find a fullsize competition level crawler in any class that doesn't have the ability to do front digs, or suck the suspension down with winches.

I already answered your question. I don't see how allowing a winch to suck down you suspension, or allowing rear dig leaves anything in a grey area.

What club do you compete with?