Love this pic...

[Ditchrat]

Money talks, BS about being American made.....yadda yadda ya

Cheaper to have it put together partially made overseas.

And the fanboys start making excuses.

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[Greatscott]

Maybe just the box was made in Taiwan.... maybe...

[Ballistic17]

All the aluminum parts are made in the US. Some of the other items/materials had to be imported from what I read.

[Jboucher]

Lately there has been lots of reports of VP parts with machining problems and many major failures as well.

I highly doubt they are still 100% american made...
Maybe machined in the US with imported aluminium?...

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[Ditchrat]

Originally Posted by Jboucher

Lately there has been lots of reports of VP parts with machining problems and many major failures as well.

I highly doubt they are still 100% american made...
Maybe machined in the US with imported aluminium?...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

All you need to say is incision, first step toward outsourcing to cheaper overseas production.


This is how great companies who built their names on quality become mediocre companies with name recognition and higher sales. Good for business. Eventually it will provide an opportunity for someone else to step in with the high quality American made parts niche.

[hpiguy]

I don't see anything on their page anywhere claiming to be 100% American made, so what's the problem? And Taiwan is a giant leap in quality from China, at least in other hobbies I've been involved in for decades. They are known for excellent quality control, and taking great pride in their work.

[Ditchrat]

Originally Posted by hpiguy

I don't see anything on their page anywhere claiming to be 100% American made, so what's the problem? And Taiwan is a giant leap in quality from China, at least in other hobbies I've been involved in for decades. They are known for excellent quality control, and taking great pride in their work.

That has always been their selling point. People bought their overpriced parts because they were American made and high quality. It was part of the appeal in buying their parts, support American Companies. Frankly it was a completely reasonable position, I often buy more expensive things because they are American made.


Both China and Taiwan make high quality components, and both make some really cheap crap. China is much larger and thus has more crap. Companies like Apple manufacture in China, so that should tell you something about Chinese Quality. If you think a country with nuclear missiles, a space station, and a massive economy is just crap stuff you are sadly mistaken.


So the problem comes down to they can no longer make the American made claim to support the higher asking price.

[svt923]

VP had to outsource the gears and driveshafts because they don't have the tooling to make them and they had to outsource the plastic parts because they don't have injection molding equipment.

The guys from VP have been pretty upfront about what parts were made where and why.

[hpiguy]

Originally Posted by Ditchrat

That has always been their selling point. People bought their overpriced parts because they were American made and high quality. It was part of the appeal in buying their parts, support American Companies. Frankly it was a completely reasonable position, I often buy more expensive things because they are American made.


Both China and Taiwan make high quality components, and both make some really cheap crap. China is much larger and thus has more crap. Companies like Apple manufacture in China, so that should tell you something about Chinese Quality. If you think a country with nuclear missiles, a space station, and a massive economy is just crap stuff you are sadly mistaken.


So the problem comes down to they can no longer make the American made claim to support the higher asking price.

As stated, they no longer make that claim so I don't see the issue here.

And I never said China was just crap stuff. I've been in IT for years, and my older Apple products have been hands down the best, most reliable electronics I've ever owned. Their newer stuff, I don't know as I don't own anythign new. But, YMMV. I also have Chinese Optics on some of my cameras, and guns that are also great. And I've bought and owned American made stuff that was 100% shit with the made in America logo on it. So the coin flips both ways.

As always, we're free to vote with our wallets. If you don't agree with their business desicions, or their prices, then just buy elsewhere.

[mikemcE]

Originally Posted by svt923

VP had to outsource the gears and driveshafts because they don't have the tooling to make them and they had to outsource the plastic parts because they don't have injection molding equipment.



The guys from VP have been pretty upfront about what parts were made where and why.

Exactly. But we are listening to people that don’t want, like, or maybe afford VP.
I’ve got GCM and VP knuckles and CHubs on 2 Wraiths. I can see the difference in the VP, easily. Cost was only about 12% cheaper on the GCM


Hang up and Drive

[Peaker]

I am sure they make garbage in Taiwan too, you get what you pay for.


And so for Vanquish products and their end price, then i feel you are entitled to expect the best.


BUT ! that do not mean foolproof or flawless, i mean just hit up youtube and have a look at all those Avantador cars catching fire sitting idle.


So " you get what you pay for" thats just a general term, you can also pay a high price and get screwed over good, this is what i feel is going on here in Denmark.

[wings_of_fire]

VP is not a small company that they cannot afford to purchase an injection moulding machine. That's a lame excuse.

VP issues started when partnership issues came up a few months back (Remember Tom and instagram?). That's when everyone knew that they paid 'nadda' as licensing fees. Anyway, running a product based company takes money and money is a major deciding factor in all such businesses. With every stage of scaling a business come new challenges that need to be met with new solutions.

[dude26]

[Ditchrat]

Originally Posted by wings_of_fire

VP is not a small company that they cannot afford to purchase an injection moulding machine. That's a lame excuse.
.

I'd say its a pretty valid reason. Exactly how big do you think they are? Still RC and still a niche market.

[Greatscott]

Originally Posted by wings_of_fire

VP is not a small company that they cannot afford to purchase an injection moulding machine. That's a lame excuse.

I have been to their shop there is Sacramento, it is pretty small. So it might not be so much a matter of being able to afford it, but not having the space to do it. Also, you have to get skilled labor for setting up, QCing, and operating the injection molding equipment, it might be more cost effective with their business plan have this done in Taiwan.

[skinnyj]

For a small company, farming out work can save a ton of money and minimize risk. A long time ago, my company used to punch gaskets in house. Cutting technology got better and more efficient. Now, I farm 99% of my work to other companies that can do it better and faster than I can, for pretty short money and a quick turnaround.

Sometimes companies can't or don't want to invest that kind of money on equipment and trained personnel unless they know the ROI is going to be a slam-dunk.

[wings_of_fire]

Originally Posted by Ditchrat

I'd say its a pretty valid reason. Exactly how big do you think they are? Still RC and still a niche market.

Depends on what you consider niche. I personally don't think the rc crawler market is in any way niche, saying that based on a lot of market study that I have done over the years.

VP have clocked over a million in sales a long time ago as it was stated by one of their very own. Injection molding machines (100 -250 ton) are not so expensive that it becomes a big deal buying them specially for a company that has been constantly growing for several years. I also don't see injection molding machines expensive to operate. They are automated machines and semi skilled workers can operate them.
The big issue in VP's case could be mold design and building it as its filled with complexity and labor for building those is expensive. Big chinese companies that provide molding service usually have in house tool room and specialist tool and die designers. It creates a much faster and reliable source of getting to the point without mistakes. Apart from that the cost of mold is spread across the number of components ordered, means you need not have to pay for mold making in advance. Its like a win win situation for customer (VP) and the manufacturer(chinese injection molding).

[Ditchrat]

Originally Posted by wings_of_fire

Depends on what you consider niche. I personally don't think the rc crawler market is in any way niche, saying that based on a lot of market study that I have done over the years.

VP have clocked over a million in sales a long time ago as it was stated by one of their very own. Injection molding machines (100 -250 ton) are not so expensive that it becomes a big deal buying them specially for a company that has been constantly growing for several years. I also don't see injection molding machines expensive to operate. They are automated machines and semi skilled workers can operate them.
The big issue in VP's case could be mold design and building it as its filled with complexity and labor for building those is expensive. Big chinese companies that provide molding service usually have in house tool room and specialist tool and die designers. It creates a much faster and reliable source of getting to the point without mistakes. Apart from that the cost of mold is spread across the number of components ordered, means you need not have to pay for mold making in advance. Its like a win win situation for customer (VP) and the manufacturer(chinese injection molding).

I get you are in India, and you seem very intelligent and well written. Things don't work that way in the US.


A million dollars in sales is chump change once you figure in all the associated expenses. I am not going to even guess about VP's expenses.

[wings_of_fire]

Originally Posted by Greatscott

I have been to their shop there is Sacramento, it is pretty small. So it might not be so much a matter of being able to afford it, but not having the space to do it. Also, you have to get skilled labor for setting up, QCing, and operating the injection molding equipment, it might be more cost effective with their business plan have this done in Taiwan.

Originally Posted by skinnyj

For a small company, farming out work can save a ton of money and minimize risk. A long time ago, my company used to punch gaskets in house. Cutting technology got better and more efficient. Now, I farm 99% of my work to other companies that can do it better and faster than I can, for pretty short money and a quick turnaround.

Sometimes companies can't or don't want to invest that kind of money on equipment and trained personnel unless they know the ROI is going to be a slam-dunk.

Agree with both of you. It makes business sense to use companies that offer specialist service.

[wings_of_fire]

Originally Posted by Ditchrat

I get you are in India, and you seem very intelligent and well written. Things don't work that way in the US.


A million dollars in sales is chump change once you figure in all the associated expenses. I am not going to even guess about VP's expenses.

I understand. Its because the dollar has excellent value on an international level but within the boundaries of America, inflation kills that.