C8 Mid Engine Corvette

[CM9000]

Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS

no way i love the P1 designed cars. ie 540-600 (have you seen one of these in person?)

i do not care for the 720 styleing (headlight area)

540C all day bro. beautiful car. less power though..

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS

no way i love the P1 designed cars. ie 540-600 (have you seen one of these in person?)

i do not care for the 720 styleing (headlight area)

No, I haven't seen them in person. All of the new McLarens are so similar that they look the same to me. Just not my thing.

I'm sure they look better in person. They have to IMO because they look fugly in photos. And if I ever had the chance to drive one I'd forget all about the looks.

[TexasSP]

I have seen several McLaren's on the road, and the dealership is not far from me. They're all beautiful cars. Honestly some very unique and modern designs.

[STANG KILLA SS]

yep you GOTTA see one of the 540-600s in person. it will change your mind.

[59sled]

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/08/12/...sh/?yptr=yahoo

[JDM74]

That didn’t take long.

[STANG KILLA SS]

grabs checkbook
#racecarbuild

[JatoTheRipper]

Pricing is official. "Starting at" $59,995. Assuming the car won't have any major issues that is an absolute steal.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020...-starts-59995/

[STANG KILLA SS]

C8 Z06 to ditch pushrod motor

not sure how i feel about this.

it does appear as if General Motors has something completely different planned for the Z06 and beyond. Motortrend has broken the news that their source within General Motors has essentially leaked the fact that the upcoming car will be a dual overhead cam application. In addition, the machine will come equipped with a pair of turbos and a flat-plane crank.

https://speedsociety.com/c8-corvette...NYJ8SZtvbFvaaU

[Chiphead]

I know I am not the sharpest tool in the shed. I had to look up 'flat-plane crank'

[STANG KILLA SS]

when the mustangs first got them, so did I.

[STANG KILLA SS]

more
https://www.motortrend.com/news/c8-c...win-turbo-v-8/

You've heard the rumors and you've seen the leaked CAD drawings. The car world has been speculating about overhead cams and turbochargers and flat-plane cranks in the backs of C8 Corvettes for months now, but we've confirmed with a deep source on the Corvette team that the upcoming C8.R race car and, more crucially, the C8 Corvette Z06 will be powered by a flat-plane-crank twin-turbo dual-overhead-cam V-8.

"Everyone thinks it will be a small block, but it won't be," said our source. "Listen to the race car."

We did, and if you've ever seen the current C7.R car live, you know the roar of the pushrod LS7.R engine is unmistakable. Compare the above video, which shows a camouflaged C8.R testing at Sebring, to the one below. The C8.R exhibits an entirely different exhaust note, one consistent with a flat-plane-crank engine design. Key characteristics to listen for: a higher-pitched exhaust note, a consistent exhaust note without the pushrod's staccato bass line, higher RPM than a pushrod motor typically reaches characterized by longer times between upshifts, and lightning quick downshifts wherein the engine spins up to higher RPM much faster than a pushrod engine.

That last part helps explain why Chevrolet would do this. After all, Corvette Racing has won the 24 Hours of Le Mans eight times in 21 attempts with pushrod engines. As with the move to a mid-engine layout, the switch to a flat-plane crank is all about performance.

Consider the advantages. Flat-plane-crank engines have smaller, lighter crankshafts which can spin up faster than cross-plane-crank engines and lose less power to rotational inertia. The change in firing order also allows for better exhaust scavenging than a cross-plane crank. Exhaust scavenging, the method of pulling the last exhaust gases out of a cylinder faster using reflected pressure waves, improves performance and combustion efficiency—both crucial in racing.

Of course, flat-plane cranks have a big disadvantage in V-8 engines: balance. The whole reason Cadillac engineered the cross-plane crankshaft for V-8 engines back in the 1920s was to smooth out the engine. While cross-plane-crank V-8s are naturally balanced due to the order in which the pistons rise and fall in the block, flat-plane-crank V-8s have only half their vibrations cancelled out naturally, and the vibrations only get worse as engine speeds increase. Because the vibrations are caused by the movements of the pistons themselves, lightweight pistons and short strokes can help reduce (but not eliminate) the vibration of a flat-plane-crank engine. Aside from being annoying in the cockpit, vibrations can damage components or cause them to wear out more quickly.

Chevrolet, clearly, has calculated the performance advantage of lightening the rotating assembly and improving scavenging are worth the expense of designing a new engine, which explains the flat-plane crank. Why not a flat-plane crank pushrod engine, though? While it's mechanically possible, there's no advantage. Exhaust scavenging works better the faster an engine spins, and getting high RPM out of an engine requires a robust valvetrain. Even the best pushrod engine, the mighty LS7, maxxes out at 7,000 RPM. At higher engine speeds, flex in the valvetrain hurts precision and stability, which hurt performance. Ford's 5.2-liter Voodoo flat-plane crank V-8 doesn't spin to 8,250 RPM because of the crank, it's because of the advanced dual-overhead cam valvetrain.

That explains the flat-plane crankshaft and blasphemous dual-overhead cams, but just keeping up with Ford doesn't explain the turbos. Le Mans does. Le Mans' sanctioning body, the ACO, uses a formula called "Balance of Power" to attempt to level the playing field between different engine types and sizes, and for the past two years it's favored turbocharged engines from Ford and Ferrari to Corvette's detriment. Critically, Balance of Power can be adjusted simply by changing the maximum boost pressure of a turbocharged engine, whereas the naturally aspirated C7.R is forced to breathe through CNC-machined metal intake restrictors which have to be made from scratch.

Where would Chevrolet get such an engine? Why, from Cadillac, of course. Not quite, though. Even though Cadillac's new 4.2-liter twin-turbo DOHC Blackwing V-8 is built at the Corvette's engine plant in Bowling Green, Kentucky, GM has been adamant it's exclusive to Cadillac. How exclusive? Cadillac President Steve Carlisle told us Corvette would get it "over my dead body" and even Corvette champion and GM President Mark Reuss has said the engine hasn't even been test-fit in the C8 because it's a Cadillac engine.

Carlisle and Reuss may be splitting hairs, though. While the Z06 and C8.R's engine may not simply be a Blackwing with the wick turned up, it's likely to have a lot in common with Cadillac's engine but with enough different to make it a game of semantics. For starters, the Blackwing is a cross-plane-crank engine, so that would have to change. More critically, the Blackwing is a hot-vee design, a reverse-flow engine which puts its turbochargers in the valley between the heads rather than hanging off the sides of the engine. The leaked CAD drawings of a supposed twin-turbo DOHC C8 engine clearly show a traditional design with outboard turbos and the intake in the valley. At minimum, the Blackwing's crankshaft and heads would need to change, and that's a huge amount of work.

It doesn't necessarily mean starting over from scratch, though. The Blackwing was designed, in Cadillac's words, to be a "compact, mass-efficient" design which emphasized power-density and packaging, both important in the C8's small engine compartment. To share development costs, it's possible the C8 motor could use the Blackwing's block, and much of what was learned in developing the Blackwing's heads could be reused in the reconfigured Corvette heads.

There's one more change that would have to be made: bore. The Blackwing is an under-square engine—its stroke is longer than the diameter of its cylinder bores. Good for reliability and torque, bad for high-RPM performance. All modern flat-plane-crank V-8s, from Ford to Ferrari to McLaren, use over-square engines to reduce piston speed and quell those nasty flat-plane vibrations. Assuming Chevrolet doesn't change the stroke, the Blackwing would need to be bored out, increasing the displacement.

Don't expect a 5.5-liter displacement, though. Many outlets have tossed this number around without any basis. It may have come from the C7.R's engine, which is restricted by IMSA racing rules to 5.5 liters, and the old rule states "there's no replacement for displacement." Except there is. It's called forced induction, that's where the turbos come in. More important than that, though, larger displacement (bigger bores and longer strokes) means bigger vibrations, which is why it was so shocking to see Ford launch a 5.2-liter flat-plane-crank V-8. There's a reason Ferrari's flat-plane-crank twin-turbo DOHC V-8 is 3.9 liters and McLaren's is 3.8. Expect the C8's displacement to grow from the Blackwing's 4.2 liters, but fall well short of the 5.5-liter number that's been thrown around. The number of issues Ford has had with Voodoo engine failures alone should dispel any notion of Chevrolet going to an even larger displacement.

According to Chevrolet, the C8.R race car will be revealed sometime this fall. When it does, take a good look under the engine cover, because what you see there is what you'll be getting in the next Z06, and it won't have pushrods.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS

yep you GOTTA see one of the 540-600s in person. it will change your mind.

I don't know where all these supercars are coming from near my house, but I passed an Alien Nuclear Snot green version last week. I honestly don't think it looks any better in person.

Something like this:

[4wd4ws]

2020 Z51 convertible.

[STANG KILLA SS]

the other night i clicked play on that. then saw it was 55 minutes long. i immediately closed it after 2 seconds. aint no body got time fo dat.

[JatoTheRipper]

I watched the entire thing while my girlfriend watched one of her shows on TV. It’s interesting and the engineer is a car guy. The C8 is in good hands.

[4wd4ws]

Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS

...aint no body got time fo dat.

I do.

[Panther6834]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

I don't know where all these supercars are coming from near my house, but I passed an Alien Nuclear Snot green version last week. I honestly don't think it looks any better in person.



Something like this:

The BEST-looking McLaren is the 720S.


~ More peace, love, laughter & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[4wd4ws]

Getting better and better (full screen and turn up the volume)