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Old 12-05-2018, 09:09 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by JSterrett View Post
This doesn't address the welfare dependancy you're referring to, but lack of immigrant labor is killing jobs...

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-...s-immigration/
Eh that article is about California. Nothing is right or makes sense in California. Every time I see an article about agriculture labor shortage it mentions California. And we know how much that far-left state loves their immigrants.

There are also articles about the labor shortage being a myth and farms making record profits. How are farms making record profits with a labor shortage? It doesn't add up.

There is always more than one solution to every problem. Besides immigrant workers there are other ways. I know robots are being developed to try to do to the jobs of immigrants. That would be awesome. Then there wouldn't be the "OMG but we need laborers" argument in the immigration battle.

Also, agriculture shortages seem to be a worldwide issue not just in America which is yet another wrench in the argument.

If you believe the "news" then there are labor shortages in the agricultural industry, the tech industry, skilled labor, and trades. So, then, all industries should be in trouble, right?
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Old 12-05-2018, 09:52 AM   #142
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Default Re: Is our President for real????

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Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper View Post
Eh that article is about California. Nothing is right or makes sense in California. Every time I see an article about agriculture labor shortage it mentions California. And we know how much that far-left state loves their immigrants.

There are also articles about the labor shortage being a myth and farms making record profits. How are farms making record profits with a labor shortage? It doesn't add up.

There is always more than one solution to every problem. Besides immigrant workers there are other ways. I know robots are being developed to try to do to the jobs of immigrants. That would be awesome. Then there wouldn't be the "OMG but we need laborers" argument in the immigration battle.

Also, agriculture shortages seem to be a worldwide issue not just in America which is yet another wrench in the argument.

If you believe the "news" then there are labor shortages in the agricultural industry, the tech industry, skilled labor, and trades. So, then, all industries should be in trouble, right?
It's hard to have a discussion when the counter-argument is "I don't like your sources so they don't count", lol. I'm well aware of the fact that both sides exaggerate things to make their points. But this provided evidence that farmers are switching to robots when possible, which means those jobs are being eliminated completely. Once a farmer invests hundreds of thousands into new equipment, he's not going to ditch it if labor suddenly becomes available again. Some are just switching to different crops all together, which could cause other issues with shortages of certain crops and a surplus of others.

And it's not just california:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/illegal...workers-taxes/

Oh, and Caifornia may vote/seem far-left, but there's huge chunks of the population that are pretty right-wing, including a lot of the ranchers and farmers who are complaining about the lack of labor...

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Old 12-05-2018, 10:05 AM   #143
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I'm sure this is just more biased lies, but I found this entertaining and there were some points made in the video that I wasn't aware of...



Sources for the info used in the video: https://www.trutv.com/shows/adam-rui...migration.html
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:06 AM   #144
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Default Re: Is our President for real????

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Originally Posted by JSterrett View Post
It's hard to have a discussion when the counter-argument is "I don't like your sources so they don't count", lol. I'm well aware of the fact that both sides exaggerate things to make their points. But this provided evidence that farmers are switching to robots when possible, which means those jobs are being eliminated completely. Once a farmer invests hundreds of thousands into new equipment, he's not going to ditch it if labor suddenly becomes available again. Some are just switching to different crops all together, which could cause other issues with shortages of certain crops and a surplus of others.

And it's not just california:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/illegal...workers-taxes/

Oh, and Caifornia may vote/seem far-left, but there's huge chunks of the population that are pretty right-wing, including a lot of the ranchers and farmers who are complaining about the lack of labor...


There is a worker shortage but for the most part the workers on the farm I drive for like it that way. Less workers mean longer hours and more money.

We are replacing workers with machines whenever possible but not because of a worker shortage, not even close. Machines don't fake injury and claim L& I. Machines don't whine or complain, they just shut up and do their job.

Potatoes paid real good this year and peas paid garbage. Does that mean everyone is going to switch to spuds next year? Hell no, specialized equipment is needed to switch crops. Just because one crop pays well doesn't mean everyone is going to grow it, flooded markets pay nothing. You want to be in a niche where the pay is high.
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:40 AM   #145
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Default Re: Is our President for real????

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Originally Posted by JSterrett View Post
It's hard to have a discussion when the counter-argument is "I don't like your sources so they don't count", lol. I'm well aware of the fact that both sides exaggerate things to make their points. But this provided evidence that farmers are switching to robots when possible, which means those jobs are being eliminated completely. Once a farmer invests hundreds of thousands into new equipment, he's not going to ditch it if labor suddenly becomes available again. Some are just switching to different crops all together, which could cause other issues with shortages of certain crops and a surplus of others.

And it's not just california:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/illegal...workers-taxes/

Oh, and Caifornia may vote/seem far-left, but there's huge chunks of the population that are pretty right-wing, including a lot of the ranchers and farmers who are complaining about the lack of labor...
I take every source with a grain of salt, don't you? If not, you should.

The agriculture labor shortage does exist in other places, but it's most problematic in California.

The industry would get along just fine without illegals. I think you are forgetting that farmers are not struggling to feed everybody. Sure there are bad years for certain crops, but on a typical year there is an abundance of crops. Farmers destroy crops to limit supply and keep the price reasonable for them to make money. People don't eat all of the produce that's grown.

Here's a food for thought (not grown or picked by illegals). I bet if we got rid of the 12 million illegals in this country the demand for farm workers would also go down.

Oh and like I said, we have supposed shortages of tech workers, skilled workers, trade workers, etc. and, somehow, we are getting by just fine. Agriculture is no different.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:03 AM   #146
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My source says fake news. Lol. Just kidding. Peas didnt pay crap this year eh? They are the best thing to go with spuds.

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Old 12-05-2018, 11:08 AM   #147
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My source says fake news. Lol. Just kidding. Peas didnt pay crap this year eh? They are the best thing to go with spuds.


Peas are ok but beef is the best thing to go with spuds.



Some crops like grapes and cherries are on extended contracts so you get a percentage each year and the remainder down the road. It is commonly 7 year payout which keeps people from switching crops after a single bad year. .
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:26 AM   #148
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You can take you crappy meatloaf somewhere else.

Turkey dark meat is better.

7 year contracts? Thats gotta suck.

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Old 12-07-2018, 01:53 PM   #149
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Default Re: Is our President for real????

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I voted for him, and will vote for him again. Several reasons why:

I'm tired of the same old politicians who spew the same lines at every election, nothing ever changes, and get rich while figuring out how to divide this country a little bit finer among the rich and powerful. I voted to shake things up, for better or for worse. Washington was and still is completely out of touch with the average American imo.

I like a republican who pushes back. Against the media, politically correct, establishment, and members of congress who have also lost most sense of decorum. It's frankly refreshing. No other candidate has the chutzpah to stand up to 2 years of constant negative abuse, and somehow keep going. With a high 40's approval rating amazingly.

I like the idea of America first. Seems to be a good attitude for an American president to have. No idea why that horrifies so many people.

I think we've seen some interesting results since. No question the national media has become a joke. I think most of them have lost their minds, and their left bias has finally spilled over into the open. It's not even a question anymore.

Highlighted just how weak the republican party really is - they have no courage of conviction at all. How many times have we heard they want to repeal obamacare, and when they had the chance, they whiffed. Or reigning in spending and the debt - the "small government people" Nada. They are frankly not much different from the democrat party imo.

Highlighted just how far left the democrat party has gone. Some of them are running (and winning) as open socialists. As a former Dem, I don't even recognize this party anymore. I'm a white guy. According to them, I'm a racist, homophobe, xenophobe, mysogynist, dog hating, steals candy from children, kicks out the walker from seniors deplorable. I'm so sick of being painted with some kind of wide brush every time I glance at CNN. It's just pushing me further away from these idiots.

I don't even care about social issues really. I wanted some control on the border, some economic sanity in Washington, no more overseas wars, lower taxes and regulation, more freedom to succeed or fail, my tax money spent wisely (right) ...Trump was checking those boxes.

Not to mention I would have crawled naked over 3 miles of broken glass to vote against Hillary. I think she's the utter definition of a career politician, and exactly who I am sick of.

Codyboy, hope this gives you some insight since you asked. No, i don't like everything he does, but I did and still do like his policy positions. Don't like to get into politics so much on here as RC is my escape from the real world, but since you asked, here you go!

Agreed.

As a veteran, I'm used to getting told information and orders in a sometimes rough manner, don't take it personal, however as President it would be better to be a little smoother sometimes.

Only real downside is his terrible treatment of the Earth, nature and our environment. Oh and he's a little too cozy with Putin, Saudis, North Korea, but maybe he's playing them like a business deal...gotta be careful and have a backup plan.

Edit:
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Originally Posted by WHITE-TRASH View Post
Climate change is a boondoggle. Are humans having an impact on the planet? Sure, too any major extent? I doubt it and so do a lot of (non .Gov funded) scientists. When the majority scientists are bought & owned by the .Gov that funds them and face funding cuts if the results aren't aligned with the story being sold and people behind the scenes such as good ol George Soros owns the companies that will be most profitable if certain legislation comes down the pipe you gotta take a step back and realize you're getting played.


GM should have been allowed to fail, here is another genius idea they came up with to increase the managements bottom line.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gm-boug...inkId=60253691
Our overall percentage impact on the climate is somewhat debatable, but why make it worse, kinda like why litter?

GM, we taxpayers bailed them out already and they are still sucking up government subsidies at our expense, over-paying executives (and board members), doing favors for large share holders, and selling somewhat kinda better cars (not great cars). GM cuts American jobs while they've been sourcing and employing Mexicans and Canadians since the 1970s, now also Chinese, none of those assembly line employees makes as much salary as US jobs that are getting cut, time to cut off the aid to GM and get some more repayment. Wow, giant stock buyback benefiting many executives with stock options and partial salary compensation via stock, CEO/Board Members should be fired and investigated for fraud. UAW, has helped a lot of wrong doings by manufacturers, but is now out of control with some of the salaries and not firing bad employees who are union members.

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Old 12-07-2018, 09:55 PM   #150
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Default Re: Is our President for real????

First and foremost, politics is a game. Ignore what politicians tell you, especially when an election is due. Those words at those times are to distract you and make you feel good towards one team and bad towards another team. I used the word "team" purposely. We'll get back to that later.

Of course there are exceptions, one would be when words actually align with action. The other would be when the assembled words are almost always demonstrably false. Not a spin-a-web-of-forced-perspective false, but patently, wholly false. Think "alternate facts".

Secondly, I am simultaneously thankful for and appalled by Trump.

I am thankful because when he took part in the debates, he showed the voting public the lazy, pasty, greasy, limp-dick side of political representation that we've come to accept. It was a veritable shit-show from beginning to end. The field of supported GOP candidates were wholly uninteresting and disappointing. And, since Hillary railroaded the Democratic side, that too was disappointing. Say what you want about Bernie, he got shafted. Criminally so.

I am thankful that he is, by no strategy of his own creation, slowly "draining the swamp". Clearly the first to be cast out were the sleazebags he put in place, but there is a slight domino effect happening elsewhere.

I am appalled that he is such a broken and shallow human being. Being the POTUS is a hard job, and while the stresses have had visible effects on previous administrations, but they all at least had enough wisdom to learn from the experience and improve in some appreciable amount. I haven't seen any such growth in Trump. He is still exactly the same horrible person he was when he took office.

I am appalled that people put blind faith in what he says, and hand wave away what he says when it conflicts with what he does because "at least he tells a clear lie". While clearly the media can and does twist his words (Obama dealt with it too, but it has ramped up noticeably), they don't need to. His daily tweets are there in black and white for everyone to inspect. Yes, people can be wrong or mistaken, but he has never admitted to being either. Never. If he gets confronted with a falsehood, he claims fake news or brushes it aside.

I am appalled that most of his claims of success are so easily falsified or have yet to bear fruit, and that his claims are so readily upheld by his rabid supporters.

I am appalled that he is devoid of actual respect for anyone or anything. There is not a single person or group of people that he hasn't championed in one minute and shit on in the next.

I am appalled that his complete lack of political experience is an excuse to get away with anything and everything. Yes, hooray that he is not a politician, but no, that does not grant him a universal 'Murican Freedom Patriot Pass for whatever dumb or shady things he does. And make no mistake, he is a dumb, shady motherfawker.

-------

More on the use of the word "team". The far left and the far right have both worked to divide us. You now have to be on team Blue or team Red. You cannot be moderate. You cannot divert from the team lest you be a traitor to your country. You cannot be on the other team lest you be a traitor to your country. The team is all that matters. Not the people, not the country, but the team.

We were warned in the beginning about a two party system. A two party system over time functionally becomes a duopoly, with each party working together to maintain collective control. At some point (which we've passed) the people spend their energy doing whats good for the party instead of whats good for the nation. Politics has become one of the largest industries in the United States. Think about that.

No, really, think about that. It is now not unusual to see political spending in the 6-7 billion dollar range during the run-up to elections. All to convince you to pick a winner from one of two preselected choices.

Last edited by Duuuuuuuude; 12-07-2018 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:23 PM   #151
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GM, we taxpayers bailed them out already and they are still sucking up government subsidies at our expense, over-paying executives (and board members), doing favors for large share holders, and selling somewhat kinda better cars (not great cars). GM cuts American jobs while they've been sourcing and employing Mexicans and Canadians since the 1970s, now also Chinese, none of those assembly line employees makes as much salary as US jobs that are getting cut, time to cut off the aid to GM and get some more repayment. Wow, giant stock buyback benefiting many executives with stock options and partial salary compensation via stock, CEO/Board Members should be fired and investigated for fraud. UAW, has helped a lot of wrong doings by manufacturers, but is now out of control with some of the salaries and not firing bad employees who are union members.
In principle, we should have let the banks and the auto industry burn. In reality, we would have burned right along with them. They HAD to be bailed out. Our economy relies on them too heavily not to. The really sad part is that we had the chance to change things and keep it from happening again, but we didn't. We bought their bullshit and let them walk. Nobody of any real consequence has had to answer for their actions.

The American auto industry (specifically GM) is dying by its own hand. It's not just the poor structuring or the outsourcing or the ridiculous pay for high ranking employees, they also lobbied to keep out foreign competition by way of "safety" regulations and tariffs. Without that competition they maintained their market share, but they were also not forced to innovate or improve quality to keep up with other brands.

If you hadn't noticed, Ford is dropping it's entire line of domestic passenger cars, minus the Mustang. They're going to make Mustangs and trucks. That's it. They'll make cars everywhere else around the world (better cars than we would get), just not here. Not any more.

The global market is here and it's happening. You can't stop it. You can hymn and haw and say America First all you want, but it won't change anything. If we are to survive and stay on top, we have to adapt, not try to force things into the past, because the rest of the world isn't going to do that and we'll be the ones left behind.

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Old 12-08-2018, 09:18 AM   #152
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Default Re: Is our President for real????

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In principle, we should have let the banks and the auto industry burn. In reality, we would have burned right along with them. They HAD to be bailed out. Our economy relies on them too heavily not to. The really sad part is that we had the chance to change things and keep it from happening again, but we didn't. We bought their bullshit and let them walk. Nobody of any real consequence has had to answer for their actions.

The American auto industry (specifically GM) is dying by its own hand. It's not just the poor structuring or the outsourcing or the ridiculous pay for high ranking employees, they also lobbied to keep out foreign competition by way of "safety" regulations and tariffs. Without that competition they maintained their market share, but they were also not forced to innovate or improve quality to keep up with other brands.

If you hadn't noticed, Ford is dropping it's entire line of domestic passenger cars, minus the Mustang. They're going to make Mustangs and trucks. That's it. They'll make cars everywhere else around the world (better cars than we would get), just not here. Not any more.

The global market is here and it's happening. You can't stop it. You can hymn and haw and say America First all you want, but it won't change anything. If we are to survive and stay on top, we have to adapt, not try to force things into the past, because the rest of the world isn't going to do that and we'll be the ones left behind.

I was hoping you would share your thoughts at some point!! Along with some of the others that have given input you are well read and there is no second guessing what your stand is.
All your points are right on and follow my thoughts very closely. You just express them way better than I could!

Thanks for your input, I appreciate that this thread has been about sharing opinions and thoughts without a lot of bantering and nasty debating. It has helped me understand a little better what peoples thoughts are on what he is accomplishing, or not!

Ernie
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:18 PM   #153
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Let me preface what I am about to write with this... I am not a democrat or republican and in general don't trust politicians (now before you reply with "trumps not a politician", businessmen can be just as bad if not worse, especially those who were simply gifted their business). I am a voter and I vote based on what the candidate stands for, not what party they affiliate themselves with. I like to consider myself a free thinker and not one of the brainwashed citizens wearing their party blinders.

There are good and bad republicans as there are good and bad democrats... That sums of humans in general. Lets take Obama for example, some of the stuff he did I thought was a great idea, other things, not so much... Same goes with Bush, Clinton, Daddy Bush, etc..

To me, Trump is a childish fool and by far the worst politician I've seen in my nearly 40 years on this planet (Hillary ranks right up there with him). On top of that, he is just a disgusting/uneducated individual that has no common sense or any idea of what is happening in the real world. No I don't watch CNN, nor do I watch Fox news. I read from various news outlets and then compare in an attempt to get an unbiased understanding of what is happening.

So, all politicians Lie, but c'mon Trump, you are an absolutely terrible Liar. There could be an elephant next to you in a photo, and you'd call it a Zebra...and sadly, some of the mindless masses would believe it. If you are going to venture into politics, at least try and be good at lying. On top of that he is nothing more than an entitled child who had a gold spoon in his mouth since day 1. His degree was clearly purchased, if not, I'd personally ask for a refund because listening to you speak is absolutely painful. Stop with the damn popularity contests... Everything you are involved in has to be either the greatest, biggest, best, etc. It is like listening to a 8th grade girl try and justify her importance in life when in all reality, nobody cares!

Stop with the Fake News... Yes there is Fake news all over out there from all sides of the political spectrum, but just because someone says something negative about you, doesn't mean its fake. Let the people formulate their own opinions instead of doing the "thinking" for them. Fake news has always been around and it didn't just become popular when you got into office. Heck, the Enquirer knows where Elvis has been hiding all these years and never tells me!!

Let Mueller run his course. If its a witch hunt as you claim, then let him finish and prove your innocence. Then you can talk crap for years about how it actually was a witch hunt and how much money was spent to find nothing. If I personally was innocent and there was an investigation taking place, i'd welcome it. After all, the money spent on this investigation is far less than you have spent on golf alone... I enjoy golf but damn man, maybe hit up a public course now and then.

Stop surrounding yourself with such shady individuals... For Christ Sakes, you put Scott Pruitt in charge of the EPA.... granted he is gone but his replacement is no better. If you want the spotlight to go away, stop hiring people who had a bad reputation prior to your arrival in office. May as well nominate catholic priests to be in charge of all daycare's nationwide dummy.

Now on to guns.. I personally grew up around guns and enjoy them, but I am not one of those "you can pull it from my cold dead hands" clowns. If the most important thing in your life are your guns, then.. well... I feel bad for ya. Hell, if I had a choice of RC's or guns, it would be RC's ten times over. I guess when the bad guy breaks into our houses we can just ram them with an X-Maxx... lol For years, the NRA and republicans said Obama would take their guns. Well he didn't, so lets move on. Dems are worried that republicans want to hand children RPG's at birth and Republicans are worried that Dems want to melt all guns down and turn them into a Toyota prius. Needless to say, very little ever changes regardless of who is in office. Are gun laws necessary, absolutely, but will they fix a lot of gun violence, most likely not. No matter how you slice it, there are more registered and unregistered guns in this country than we can ever imagine. For that reason alone, gun violence will always be a thing. Now, don't get me wrong... I don't think its necessary that 3 tooth Cletus with his 2nd grade education "needs" a basement filled with full auto weapons.

Enough with the tweeting. Trump reminds me of a 12 year old in a call of duty lobby with the never ending barrage of shit that is spewed daily. Every time you tweet, twitter erupts into a back and forth shit storm. That's why I stick to instagram.. "look at the pretty pictures"

Now on to racism.. If you dislike someone based on the color of their skin or what country they were born in, well, you are a fool. Be like me and just hate everyone equally! All jokes aside, if you dislike someone, then at least have a reason for disliking that particular individual. If they slept with your mother, then hate away... but if you don't like them because of their appearance, that's beyond ridiculous and says a lot about you as a person.

Most of all people... Just think for your damn selves. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, etc... don't let some politician tell you its a muskrat. For the most part, Americans are semi intelligent, but these hardline do or die dems/republicans really tilt the scale to full on stupid.

Be nice, until they personally give you a reason not to.. (Patrick Swayze in roadhouse stole many of his sayings from me).
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:41 AM   #154
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Default Re: Is our President for real????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude View Post
First and foremost, politics is a game. Ignore what politicians tell you, especially when an election is due. Those words at those times are to distract you and make you feel good towards one team and bad towards another team. I used the word "team" purposely. We'll get back to that later.

Of course there are exceptions, one would be when words actually align with action. The other would be when the assembled words are almost always demonstrably false. Not a spin-a-web-of-forced-perspective false, but patently, wholly false. Think "alternate facts".

Secondly, I am simultaneously thankful for and appalled by Trump.

I am thankful because when he took part in the debates, he showed the voting public the lazy, pasty, greasy, limp-dick side of political representation that we've come to accept. It was a veritable shit-show from beginning to end. The field of supported GOP candidates were wholly uninteresting and disappointing. And, since Hillary railroaded the Democratic side, that too was disappointing. Say what you want about Bernie, he got shafted. Criminally so.

I am thankful that he is, by no strategy of his own creation, slowly "draining the swamp". Clearly the first to be cast out were the sleazebags he put in place, but there is a slight domino effect happening elsewhere.

I am appalled that he is such a broken and shallow human being. Being the POTUS is a hard job, and while the stresses have had visible effects on previous administrations, but they all at least had enough wisdom to learn from the experience and improve in some appreciable amount. I haven't seen any such growth in Trump. He is still exactly the same horrible person he was when he took office.

I am appalled that people put blind faith in what he says, and hand wave away what he says when it conflicts with what he does because "at least he tells a clear lie". While clearly the media can and does twist his words (Obama dealt with it too, but it has ramped up noticeably), they don't need to. His daily tweets are there in black and white for everyone to inspect. Yes, people can be wrong or mistaken, but he has never admitted to being either. Never. If he gets confronted with a falsehood, he claims fake news or brushes it aside.

I am appalled that most of his claims of success are so easily falsified or have yet to bear fruit, and that his claims are so readily upheld by his rabid supporters.

I am appalled that he is devoid of actual respect for anyone or anything. There is not a single person or group of people that he hasn't championed in one minute and shit on in the next.

I am appalled that his complete lack of political experience is an excuse to get away with anything and everything. Yes, hooray that he is not a politician, but no, that does not grant him a universal 'Murican Freedom Patriot Pass for whatever dumb or shady things he does. And make no mistake, he is a dumb, shady motherfawker.

-------

More on the use of the word "team". The far left and the far right have both worked to divide us. You now have to be on team Blue or team Red. You cannot be moderate. You cannot divert from the team lest you be a traitor to your country. You cannot be on the other team lest you be a traitor to your country. The team is all that matters. Not the people, not the country, but the team.

We were warned in the beginning about a two party system. A two party system over time functionally becomes a duopoly, with each party working together to maintain collective control. At some point (which we've passed) the people spend their energy doing whats good for the party instead of whats good for the nation. Politics has become one of the largest industries in the United States. Think about that.

No, really, think about that. It is now not unusual to see political spending in the 6-7 billion dollar range during the run-up to elections. All to convince you to pick a winner from one of two preselected choices.
The only "team" that career politicians play for is their own party. And they do what benefits their bank account, period. We just have to hope their decisions affect us in a good way.

Trump is a broken and shallow human being? So I take it you are his personal shrink? Otherwise that's a bold claim that somebody like Trump himself would make.

So, basically, you are appalled by every President in our lifetime because you could say almost each and every one of those things about our recent, past Presidents except that they had more of a political background. But Trump not having a political background was a good thing, IMO, and probably a big part of the reason why he was elected.

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In principle, we should have let the banks and the auto industry burn. In reality, we would have burned right along with them. They HAD to be bailed out. Our economy relies on them too heavily not to. The really sad part is that we had the chance to change things and keep it from happening again, but we didn't. We bought their bullshit and let them walk. Nobody of any real consequence has had to answer for their actions.

The American auto industry (specifically GM) is dying by its own hand. It's not just the poor structuring or the outsourcing or the ridiculous pay for high ranking employees, they also lobbied to keep out foreign competition by way of "safety" regulations and tariffs. Without that competition they maintained their market share, but they were also not forced to innovate or improve quality to keep up with other brands.

If you hadn't noticed, Ford is dropping it's entire line of domestic passenger cars, minus the Mustang. They're going to make Mustangs and trucks. That's it. They'll make cars everywhere else around the world (better cars than we would get), just not here. Not any more.

The global market is here and it's happening. You can't stop it. You can hymn and haw and say America First all you want, but it won't change anything. If we are to survive and stay on top, we have to adapt, not try to force things into the past, because the rest of the world isn't going to do that and we'll be the ones left behind.
What makes you think the American auto industry is dying? Facts state otherwise.

Chevy also announced they were going to stop production for most passenger cars. But that's not because they are failing companies. That is because pickups, SUVS, and crossovers are what sell in this country. Auto sales are down across the board. Does that mean all manufacturers are failing? Nope.

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Let me preface what I am about to write with this... I am not a democrat or republican and in general don't trust politicians (now before you reply with "trumps not a politician", businessmen can be just as bad if not worse, especially those who were simply gifted their business). I am a voter and I vote based on what the candidate stands for, not what party they affiliate themselves with. I like to consider myself a free thinker and not one of the brainwashed citizens wearing their party blinders.

There are good and bad republicans as there are good and bad democrats... That sums of humans in general. Lets take Obama for example, some of the stuff he did I thought was a great idea, other things, not so much... Same goes with Bush, Clinton, Daddy Bush, etc..

To me, Trump is a childish fool and by far the worst politician I've seen in my nearly 40 years on this planet (Hillary ranks right up there with him). On top of that, he is just a disgusting/uneducated individual that has no common sense or any idea of what is happening in the real world. No I don't watch CNN, nor do I watch Fox news. I read from various news outlets and then compare in an attempt to get an unbiased understanding of what is happening.

So, all politicians Lie, but c'mon Trump, you are an absolutely terrible Liar. There could be an elephant next to you in a photo, and you'd call it a Zebra...and sadly, some of the mindless masses would believe it. If you are going to venture into politics, at least try and be good at lying. On top of that he is nothing more than an entitled child who had a gold spoon in his mouth since day 1. His degree was clearly purchased, if not, I'd personally ask for a refund because listening to you speak is absolutely painful. Stop with the damn popularity contests... Everything you are involved in has to be either the greatest, biggest, best, etc. It is like listening to a 8th grade girl try and justify her importance in life when in all reality, nobody cares!

Stop with the Fake News... Yes there is Fake news all over out there from all sides of the political spectrum, but just because someone says something negative about you, doesn't mean its fake. Let the people formulate their own opinions instead of doing the "thinking" for them. Fake news has always been around and it didn't just become popular when you got into office. Heck, the Enquirer knows where Elvis has been hiding all these years and never tells me!!

Now on to guns.. I personally grew up around guns and enjoy them, but I am not one of those "you can pull it from my cold dead hands" clowns. If the most important thing in your life are your guns, then.. well... I feel bad for ya. Hell, if I had a choice of RC's or guns, it would be RC's ten times over. I guess when the bad guy breaks into our houses we can just ram them with an X-Maxx... lol For years, the NRA and republicans said Obama would take their guns. Well he didn't, so lets move on. Dems are worried that republicans want to hand children RPG's at birth and Republicans are worried that Dems want to melt all guns down and turn them into a Toyota prius. Needless to say, very little ever changes regardless of who is in office. Are gun laws necessary, absolutely, but will they fix a lot of gun violence, most likely not. No matter how you slice it, there are more registered and unregistered guns in this country than we can ever imagine. For that reason alone, gun violence will always be a thing. Now, don't get me wrong... I don't think its necessary that 3 tooth Cletus with his 2nd grade education "needs" a basement filled with full auto weapons.
Trump isn't a well-trained, politically correct, politician. Everybody knows that. That's why a lot of people like him. But pretty much everything else that you've knocked him on are things other politicians do.

Fake news is real and most of it is biased. You can read the same story with the same facts on Fox and CNN and they will have different slants. But most Americans are too stupid to realize that. So I'm glad Trump got the "fake news" term into every day language. It's about time people start waking up.

A lot of things you said in your post are extremes. It's no different when it comes to your blurb on guns. There are very few people in this country with fully auto weapons in their basement. Sales of new, fully automatic weapons to the public were banned in the late 1980's. You need a special, expensive license to own fully automatic guns these days and after you get that you have to pay a lot of money to legally purchase a fully automatic weapon. So basically your rant about "3 tooth Cletus with his 2nd grade education "needs" a basement filled with full auto weapons" was childish, foolish, and fake news - the things you claim to hate.
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Old 12-10-2018, 07:02 PM   #155
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The only "team" that career politicians play for is their own party. And they do what benefits their bank account, period. We just have to hope their decisions affect us in a good way.
There are a fair amount that do work to serve the people, but at some point the corruption creeps in. It's inevitable.

Having said that, there are those that live modest lives. Not everyone in politics has million dollar book deals and lobby for corporate America. They just don't get any media attention because they aren't exciting.

But yes, those that are only interested in their party are quite obvious.

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Trump is a broken and shallow human being? So I take it you are his personal shrink? Otherwise that's a bold claim that somebody like Trump himself would make.
You don't need to be that close to analyze his personality. He has lived a life of self-promotion, and has a deep seeded need to prove that he is the best of everything. He is, at all times, selling himself to those around him. Any wrong doing or misstep is always someone elses fault.

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So, basically, you are appalled by every President in our lifetime because you could say almost each and every one of those things about our recent, past Presidents except that they had more of a political background.
There was a book or paper written not that long ago that examined the psychological behaviors of most of the presidents in the last century or so. Nearly all of them displayed psychopathic and narcissistic tendencies to some degree. That's not entirely surprising, you've got to be a little cray-cray and quite a bit sure of yourself to think that you could handle a job like that.

Trump is different because he doesn't seem to have any kind of temperament to give him any kind of balance.

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But Trump not having a political background was a good thing, IMO, and probably a big part of the reason why he was elected.
I absolutely agree. He gave a much needed shock to the political system. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be held to high standards though.

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What makes you think the American auto industry is dying? Facts state otherwise.
Dying doesn't mean dead.

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Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper View Post
Chevy also announced they were going to stop production for most passenger cars. But that's not because they are failing companies. That is because pickups, SUVS, and crossovers are what sell in this country. Auto sales are down across the board. Does that mean all manufacturers are failing? Nope.
To be brutally honest, domestic cars suck in comparison to their imported counterparts. There are a lot of reasons for that, just as there are a lot of reasons why we're so keen on big vehicles and trucks.
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Old 12-10-2018, 07:53 PM   #156
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I didn't bother quoting the stuff I agreed with.

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You don't need to be that close to analyze his personality. He has lived a life of self-promotion, and has a deep seeded need to prove that he is the best of everything. He is, at all times, selling himself to those around him. Any wrong doing or misstep is always someone elses fault.
Pure assumptions and nothing more IMO. For all we know that could be his character and part of his plan to get famous and wealthy.

I don't think he's perfect, but I don't think he's crazier than most of the a-holes running the country. They are delusional because they live in a different world. But, like I said before, they are trained to think before they speak. Trump was never given that training and you can tell.

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There was a book or paper written not that long ago that examined the psychological behaviors of most of the presidents in the last century or so. Nearly all of them displayed psychopathic and narcissistic tendencies to some degree. That's not entirely surprising, you've got to be a little cray-cray and quite a bit sure of yourself to think that you could handle a job like that.
I 100% agree you have to have part of those qualities to be a President. Same goes for some other careers. A lot of great doctors and surgeons, not good doctors, but the best of the best, are known for being assholes to coworkers. They usually have good bedside manners with patients though. But you have to have some massive ego or even some disorder to have so much confidence that you can perform a life saving surgery under pressure. Most of us would fold under that same pressure even with the same training.

Look at Steve Jobs as well. He is known for making Apple one of the best tech companies in the world, but he was a complete piece of shit to people.

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Dying doesn't mean dead.
I beg to differ. Dead is dead. Dying still means there's hope. Apple was nearly dead and look where they are now. Neither are true for the US auto industry though.

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To be brutally honest, domestic cars suck in comparison to their imported counterparts. There are a lot of reasons for that, just as there are a lot of reasons why we're so keen on big vehicles and trucks.
I don't know what makes you say that. It's simply not true. All brands have their pros and cons as well as good models and bad models.

Look at this list of most reliable brands for 2018 as an example. GM makes multiple appearances in the top 10. Remember, there are only 3 large, American car manufacturers. There are tons more imported brands. When you say domestic vs imported you have to remember it's not a level playing field. It's like a team of 3 versus a team of something like 10. So I'd say the facts point to GM doing pretty damn well against the world.

https://www.businessinsider.com/most...ands-ranked-16
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:58 PM   #157
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Pure assumptions and nothing more IMO.
Assumptions based on piles of data based on an ever increasing amount of public behavior.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably a duck. Or in todays world, it self identifies as a duck. Which is a brilliant (pats self on back) segue to your next point...

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For all we know that could be his character and part of his plan to get famous and wealthy.
Which is an even worse (for him) scenario. You don't spend a lifetime building a brand based on the perception of quality and taste and superiority only to destroy it by playing a thickheaded fool once you manage to obtain one of the highest seats in the land.

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I don't think he's perfect, but I don't think he's crazier than most of the a-holes running the country. They are delusional because they live in a different world. But, like I said before, they are trained to think before they speak. Trump was never given that training and you can tell.
There is absolutely a disconnect concerning some of the more affluent members of government. How could there not be? At the same time, there are representatives that sleep in their offices and take public transportation to/from and around Washington.

You don't have to be a politician to be trained to think before you speak. Most of us regular people learn that in our daily interactions. We get held accountable for what comes out of our mouths. I doubt very much that Trump has had much of that experience.

Personally speaking, I am miserable at drawn out face to face discussions because I have an annoying necessity to contemplate most everything I say.

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I 100% agree you have to have part of those qualities to be a President. Same goes for some other careers. A lot of great doctors and surgeons, not good doctors, but the best of the best, are known for being assholes to coworkers. They usually have good bedside manners with patients though. But you have to have some massive ego or even some disorder to have so much confidence that you can perform a life saving surgery under pressure. Most of us would fold under that same pressure even with the same training.

Look at Steve Jobs as well. He is known for making Apple one of the best tech companies in the world, but he was a complete piece of shit to people.
Going balls out in a smart fashion is not an easy thing to do. Some can do it, most can't.

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I beg to differ. Dead is dead. Dying still means there's hope. Apple was nearly dead and look where they are now. Neither are true for the US auto industry though.
There's nothing to differ on. I said they were dying by their own hand, not that they had committed suicide.

You don't radically restructure like GM and Ford unless something has got horribly askew. They're not scaling back production to meet dwindling demand, they're pulling the plug on an entire segment.

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I don't know what makes you say that. It's simply not true. All brands have their pros and cons as well as good models and bad models.

Look at this list of most reliable brands for 2018 as an example. GM makes multiple appearances in the top 10. Remember, there are only 3 large, American car manufacturers. There are tons more imported brands. When you say domestic vs imported you have to remember it's not a level playing field. It's like a team of 3 versus a team of something like 10. So I'd say the facts point to GM doing pretty damn well against the world.

https://www.businessinsider.com/most...ands-ranked-16
Look at that list again. A good number of those are high end or expensive vehicles. Vehicles that, based on their price point, you would expect reliability and quality. I'm talking your average low-to-midrange cars, not trucks, not SUVs or crossovers.

Also note that a $16k Kia beat a $60k+ Navigator.
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Old 12-12-2018, 12:33 PM   #158
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Assumptions based on piles of data based on an ever increasing amount of public behavior.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably a duck. Or in todays world, it self identifies as a duck. Which is a brilliant (pats self on back) segue to your next point...

Which is an even worse (for him) scenario. You don't spend a lifetime building a brand based on the perception of quality and taste and superiority only to destroy it by playing a thickheaded fool once you manage to obtain one of the highest seats in the land.
I'm pretty sure we've disagreed on this point before and we will continue to do so. I'm not a shrink nor do I think a TV personality is a real personality so we will agree to disagree.

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There is absolutely a disconnect concerning some of the more affluent members of government. How could there not be? At the same time, there are representatives that sleep in their offices and take public transportation to/from and around Washington.
Going back to one of your previous posts, I think at least some politicians start with good intentions, but being surrounded by politicians and seeing they money they make would taint most anybody.

The longer they are in politics the more disconnected they become. And political families, like the Kennedys, have no clue about reality. I guess the same could be said for the Trumps because they've never lived a "normal lifestyle".

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You don't have to be a politician to be trained to think before you speak. Most of us regular people learn that in our daily interactions. We get held accountable for what comes out of our mouths. I doubt very much that Trump has had much of that experience.
Very good point. I try to think before I speak, but when I'm passionate or angered by something I don't always do so. When you live an abnormal life style where an abundance of money exists, you typically get an ego to go with it. I think Trump is guilty of that.

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Going balls out in a smart fashion is not an easy thing to do. Some can do it, most can't.
Very true and that's why they command very high salaries.

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There's nothing to differ on. I said they were dying by their own hand, not that they had committed suicide.

You don't radically restructure like GM and Ford unless something has got horribly askew. They're not scaling back production to meet dwindling demand, they're pulling the plug on an entire segment.

Look at that list again. A good number of those are high end or expensive vehicles. Vehicles that, based on their price point, you would expect reliability and quality. I'm talking your average low-to-midrange cars, not trucks, not SUVs or crossovers.

Also note that a $16k Kia beat a $60k+ Navigator.
I think foreign companies have taken over sales in categories outside of trucks, SUVs, and crossovers and Chevy and Ford have given up. They are focusing on the areas where they make the most sales and I don't think that's a bad thing. Extremely condensing your lineup, alone, will make the business more focused and, hopefully, more efficient and profitable. What evidence do you have that those things mean the companies are dying?

I'm biased - I love my Kia. Some people act like Hyundai and Kia are still second-rate brands. They are not.
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:47 PM   #159
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I'm pretty sure we've disagreed on this point before and we will continue to do so. I'm not a shrink nor do I think a TV personality is a real personality so we will agree to disagree.
If you're suggesting that Trump as POTUS is putting on an act, that presents a whole other problem.

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Going back to one of your previous posts, I think at least some politicians start with good intentions, but being surrounded by politicians and seeing they money they make would taint most anybody.
It's hard to be honorable when so few around you are.

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The longer they are in politics the more disconnected they become. And political families, like the Kennedys, have no clue about reality. I guess the same could be said for the Trumps because they've never lived a "normal lifestyle".
It is possible to be disconnected in certain ways and still have an understanding of the needs of the people you supposedly serve. Being rich and powerful doesn't necessitate being a tyrant or at the least, mildly sympathetic.

And remember, we are a republic. The powers that be are tasked with doing what is best, not what we want them to do. Sometimes a little disconnect can gain you perspective.

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Very good point. I try to think before I speak, but when I'm passionate or angered by something I don't always do so.
Everybody gets emotional and blurts things out. Being completely unfiltered and indifferent to the effect that might have is a different thing though.

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When you live an abnormal life style where an abundance of money exists, you typically get an ego to go with it. I think Trump is guilty of that.
Absolutely. He is a product of his upbringing. He is grounded in money and power and clings to it desperately.

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I think foreign companies have taken over sales in categories outside of trucks, SUVs, and crossovers and Chevy and Ford have given up. They are focusing on the areas where they make the most sales and I don't think that's a bad thing. Extremely condensing your lineup, alone, will make the business more focused and, hopefully, more efficient and profitable. What evidence do you have that those things mean the companies are dying?
When I said that we have shitty domestic cars, that's what I meant. The Big 3 have focused on flash while the Asian market has been more pragmatic in their engineering.

That's not to say that they all don't have their problems, but easily corrected over site is vastly different than a stupid mistake that kills a brand. I deal with that daily. There are reasonable problems, then there are those that are so incredibly stupid and poorly thought out that you wonder how they manage to wear matching shoes.

The evidence is the major restructuring. Dying isn't dead. Cutting out what is hurting them prevents their death. I too think that is a good thing and a smart move, but they still need to refocus their engineering goals IMO. If they want people to buy their stuff on an open market, it needs to be reliable and affordable.

And while Ford hasn't announced it yet, I'm sure there will be a big cut in jobs too. People aren't just going to buy a domestic truck because they can no longer buy a domestic car.

edit: I had forgotten that I recently heard a podcast with the CEO of Ford, and he discussed the restructuring and subsequent killing off of their line of cars. He kept saying that Ford was going to be a "technology company", but really wouldn't go into much detail. I might have to go back and listen to it again.

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I'm biased - I love my Kia. Some people act like Hyundai and Kia are still second-rate brands. They are not.
That was a dig on Lincoln, not Kia.

Hyundai and Kia have come a long way, no doubt. I've been eyeing the Soul as a possible replacement for my wifes minivan.

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Old 12-13-2018, 10:24 PM   #160
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If you're suggesting that Trump as POTUS is putting on an act, that presents a whole other problem.
Whew...that’s been a lot to digest since you showed up. Like CODYBOY, I too was wondering when you were coming. I enjoy your take even if I don’t always agree with it. I’m just gonna pick this part...

I think what JATO means is “on camera” President Trump is different than “closed door meeting” President Trump, as is with nearly all politicians at that level I feel.

Look at any televised hearing where the person being questioned has a side. The team on their side asks softball questions, while the against side wants real answers. I highly doubt they grandstand like that when there are no cameras.

My parents don’t like the new preachers wife, because when she’s making announcements, she’s very...showy & a bit loud & overly enthusiastic. But we’ve heard from multiple people that when they are at her home for life groups, she’s a very different person.
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