Just Traxxas things

[TooOldForThis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNrePMN--mo&t=1s

TLDR:

Tony at CCxRC - A respected member of the R/C community, who exists.
Traxxas - "I'm about to end this man's whole career".

[DrIsotope]

Traxxas didn't take him down, his web host did. He got a cease and desist for using either the Traxxas name or the TR-4m name in a way that is somehow technically a trademark violation. The only thing listed in the letter was the page URL, so I think it was mishandled by the web host more than anyone else. Corporations have lawyers that do nothing but smash on anything that might be considered intellectual property. I'm not here to defend Traxxas in any way, I just think the whole stream (I'm about halfway in) is a bit of an overcorrect. Companies like Pro-Line have been awful for years, and everyone is just fine with it. Chrysler basically shut down FMS with the whole Mashigan affair, and nobody was calling out Chrysler. Maybe I missed some of the context, or content that appeared before the part of the stream that later got posted to YouTube.

[TooOldForThis]

Originally Posted by DrIsotope

Traxxas didn't take him down, his web host did. He got a cease and desist for using either the Traxxas name or the TR-4m name in a way that is somehow technically a trademark violation. The only thing listed in the letter was the page URL, so I think it was mishandled by the web host more than anyone else. Corporations have lawyers that do nothing but smash on anything that might be considered intellectual property. I'm not here to defend Traxxas in any way, I just think the whole stream (I'm about halfway in) is a bit of an overcorrect. Companies like Pro-Line have been awful for years, and everyone is just fine with it. Chrysler basically shut down FMS with the whole Mashigan affair, and nobody was calling out Chrysler. Maybe I missed some of the context, or content that appeared before the part of the stream that later got posted to YouTube.

You have the details right as far as I know. This just feels different because it's one guy getting a (presumably) significant chunk of his income turned off, instead of Traxxas lawyers fighting Arrma lawyers and everyone's still getting their paychecks.

But now the even more interesting thing is watching people separate themselves into two sides online and fight each other about this. Wait, did I say "interesting"? I meant "predictable yet still disappointing"

Hey by the way Doctor, I watch enough of your YT channel that seeing you post on here feels like seeing a minor celebrity chime in. Something akin to the local weatherman. Anyway keep up the good work over there.

[DrIsotope]

For a split second when he posted a snippet from the "offending urls list" there was a BUNCH of sites on there, including Jenny's, and most anybody else selling 4m parts/accessories. So to me if feels like nobody actually got singled out-- this was done en masse. So crude, and unwarranted, but not something I think to be taken personally. Were I him, I'd be more mad at my web host for just shutting me off without warning.

[OSRC]

That was a few minutes of my life I'll never get back. FFS.

Anyone with a phone and a camera can now be a "public figure"

Anyone with a 3D printer or a CNC ability and Venmo account can now be a "manufacturer."

In the video: "I'm not a business person"

Maybe spend a few minutes educating yourselves about copyright laws and trademarks before broadcasting worldwide or making parts. Believe it or not, there are actual rules for this kind of stuff. Save the online crying and whining - it helps nothing - and maybe take a few business classes. Just a thought.

[TooOldForThis]

Ok we're halfway there, just need someone from the other camp to chime in now. Lets litigate this right here

Edit: The drama just keeps getting better. This is an actual t-shirt someone whipped up and posted for sale.

[ferp420]

traxxaasssss has been a bully for a long time i try vary hard to stay away from there products the trx4 i built is mostly aftermarket parts or used takeoffs both to save money and to give traxxaassss as little of my money as posable and still have a trx4

[sherbs]

I have always considered Traxxas as being the RC company that only cared about themselves and not the hobby. Thus why I do not own a product of theirs. The recent way they took action just proves my point. You do not always remember good things, but if a person has morality of any kind they will remember the wrongs.

[DrIsotope]

Not a defense of Traxxas, but it is depressingly amusing to hear people so willing to boycott Traxxas as if they're some sort of evil empire-- but happily buy from any of the brands under the Horizon umbrella. If anyone is deluded enough to think that Horizon isn't every bit as amoral and litigious as Traxxas, I wish I could live under the same blissful ignorance. Corporations be corporatin'. I do reiterate: I don't think Traxxas did anything other corporations haven't done in the past, and they certainly didn't single out a YouTuber. A someone who has been a manufacturer/fabricator for the better part of 20 years, I absolutely understand the motivation to protect IP. I think someone took something which is as impersonal as humanly possible (a blanket cease and desist fired out by a legal dept. of a multi-million dollar corporation) as something very personal.

The "smash it all and fire sale the rest" doesn't hurt Traxxas at all, the cost is already sunk. I've had issues with companies in the past, and got back at them by giving the products away. If I decide to embargo someone/thing, that's on me, of me, and for me. I'm not using it as a rallying cry to try to "take down the establishment." As much as I like a festive bridge-burning, I think this whole thing was a broad-stroke overreact. A cease and desist ≠ an injunction.

[ferp420]

i wont buy new axials ether because of something stupid that happend years ago that rubbed me the wong way alot less stupid than what traxxass has done for the past 30 years i wont boycot ether brand but i also wont spend large amounts of money with them ether if i need a part and they are selling them ill buy it but i wont buy a new rig from ether company not even a scx24 or a trx4m

[B-MOW71]

I've been seeing all of the crashing and bashing and trashing of Traxxas rigs and products on the Social's. What Traxxas did doesn't really effect me, so I'm good either way.

I own a few Traxxas rigs and I have no problems or comments about them. I like them and I drive them and I'll continue to buy Traxxas products if it is something that interest me.

In the end, they are just fun little toys that make me smile and let me escape from reality for a short period of time!

[sherbs]

Originally Posted by B-MOW71

I've been seeing all of the crashing and bashing and trashing of Traxxas rigs and products on the Social's. What Traxxas did doesn't really effect me, so I'm good either way.

I own a few Traxxas rigs and I have no problems or comments about them. I like them and I drive them and I'll continue to buy Traxxas products if it is something that interest me.

In the end, they are just fun little toys that make me smile and let me escape from reality for a short period of time!

But it could effect you. Lets say you wanted to buy a servo from Tony "CCXRC", for a project, you can't, his web page is gone. The servo has nothing to do with Traxxass but all he sells went poof.. There are just so many other brands that are as good if not better than them why not give your lunch money to a company that are Bullies!

[smog]

Originally Posted by DrIsotope

Not a defense of Traxxas, but it is depressingly amusing to hear people so willing to boycott Traxxas as if they're some sort of evil empire-- but happily buy from any of the brands under the Horizon umbrella. If anyone is deluded enough to think that Horizon isn't every bit as amoral and litigious as Traxxas, I wish I could live under the same blissful ignorance. Corporations be corporatin'. I do reiterate: I don't think Traxxas did anything other corporations haven't done in the past, and they certainly didn't single out a YouTuber. A someone who has been a manufacturer/fabricator for the better part of 20 years, I absolutely understand the motivation to protect IP. I think someone took something which is as impersonal as humanly possible (a blanket cease and desist fired out by a legal dept. of a multi-million dollar corporation) as something very personal.

The "smash it all and fire sale the rest" doesn't hurt Traxxas at all, the cost is already sunk. I've had issues with companies in the past, and got back at them by giving the products away. If I decide to embargo someone/thing, that's on me, of me, and for me. I'm not using it as a rallying cry to try to "take down the establishment." As much as I like a festive bridge-burning, I think this whole thing was a broad-stroke overreact. A cease and desist ≠ an injunction.

I tend to agree with this. I doubt Traxxas set out with any maligned intent. The best thing for those affected by this debacle would be to make the appropriate changes and move forward. There is still money to be made if they so choose. They should consider the whole thing a lesson in business and live on being all the wiser. Pride can be self destructive if improperly applied. This may be a fine example of such a situation.

[Greatscott]

ok... 10 minutes in to the video, and all I am really getting out of this is his site was taken down (Wix), he is upset at Traxxas, and he gave his educational resume. Please tell me that this guy gets to a point, provides a distinct summation of what happened, what why he thinks it happened, or, if someone can summarize his ramblings in a condensed reader's digest version. I really don't want to waste a whole hour listening to this guy bumble and ramble along.

Traxxas is the 800lbs Gorilla in the RC world, and they do not apologize for it. When our community rallies against Traxxas for being a bully, then they might change their ways; that is likely not going to happen. Axial, AE, Losi, and just about any other established RC company has their own share of evil deeds, so when choosing your rig of choice, you more or less have to pick your poison. The companies are just that, companies, and there are here to make money, and a big piece to that is protecting their products.

JMHO....

[tigris99]

As I see on FB groups and such, a lot of people have no idea what is actually going on here. Being past dealings in business when this mess appeared it immediately triggered memory of IP laws. So I made a couple calls and was told to pass this info along as well as advise the business I know and others to work together and lawyer up.

Here is the link I was sent. Legal info with sources, court rulings and so on.

https://ipwatchdog.com/2018/09/19/oe...ies/id=101163/

Traxxas is way out of line even legally. Their trying to play a cock swinging contest cause they are a big Corp. Problem for them, aftermarket companies have legal rights and none of these sites/companies have done anything that would exceed those protections and move into IP protections Traxxas has.

Traxxas has been slapped around several times for trying this childish BS.

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[B-MOW71]

Originally Posted by sherbs

But it could effect you. Lets say you wanted to buy a servo from Tony "CCXRC", for a project, you can't, his web page is gone. The servo has nothing to do with Traxxass but all he sells went poof.. There are just so many other brands that are as good if not better than them why not give your lunch money to a company that are Bullies!

Still doesn't effect me! Like you said, there are just so many other brands that are as good or better to choose from.

Lucky for us in the hobby now, there are so many more suppliers to choose from these days compared to just 5 to 10 years ago. I normally like to spread my money around to buy different brands of rigs, parts, supplies, etc.

[Shinook]

Originally Posted by OSRC

In the video: "I'm not a business person"

Maybe spend a few minutes educating yourselves about copyright laws and trademarks before broadcasting worldwide or making parts. Believe it or not, there are actual rules for this kind of stuff. Save the online crying and whining - it helps nothing - and maybe take a few business classes. Just a thought.

Do you really expect people to know the difference between these two phrases:

"Servo Mount for TRX4M"
"Micro Servo Mount (compatible with TRX4M)"

I guarantee you could Google yourself ragged and never come to the conclusion that the former phase was something that constituted a violation worthy of legal response. So let's be real here, this is not someone going around saying he is Traxxas selling parts, it's a minor nuance that no one else would have thought of and goes without issue throughout the rest of the industry.

Originally Posted by DrIsotope

Maybe I missed some of the context, or content that appeared before the part of the stream that later got posted to YouTube.

The context is that they were selling parts that fit the TRX4M, Traxxas felt the wording around how they were listed in the URL and description constituted a trademark violation. Effectively they were sold as "xyz part for TRX4M" or "TRX4M xyz", instead of "Compatible with TRX4M". They felt this was confusing, probably figuring it impacted part sales when people searched for replacement parts and found the smaller companies instead of Traxxas.

Let's keep in mind also that Traxxas has been suing companies for using any form of "Max" in the title, including HBO. So it's worth remembering they are just trolls at this point. It's one thing to defend your brand, it's another to try and trademark a generic phrase in a completely unrelated industry.

Originally Posted by DrIsotope

Not a defense of Traxxas, but it is depressingly amusing to hear people so willing to boycott Traxxas as if they're some sort of evil empire-- but happily buy from any of the brands under the Horizon umbrella.

Last I checked, Horizon wasn't going after every small manufacturer selling parts with SCX24 in the title.

Originally Posted by B-MOW71

Still doesn't effect me!

Except that it does. It negatively impacts the hobby when small brands are putting mods out there that improve and expand the hobby, then being threatened by larger brands selling products to non-hobbyists like Traxxas is. Hell, most crawlers started out as modified vehicles from mainline manufacturers many years ago, so the whole RC crawling thing was founded on these types of mods made by small brands and they continue to drive innovation and improvement way ahead of big brands.

It may not impact you directly, but it impacts the hobby in a negative way. Is this going to kill it? Probably not, but it sucks when people come up with something they want to sell to improve a product, but are too afraid of legal repercussions to do so, it holds the hobby back. There are obviously lines that shouldn't be crossed, but in this case, they overreached over a minor wording issue IMO. These are the types of things that keep innovative and interesting mods from coming to market from smaller brands.

[DrIsotope]

In the cycling world, Park Tool has tried to sue anyone and everyone that makes a product in a shade of blue even remotely close to Park Tool Blue-- including Shimano, whose blue isn't even close. Specialized had a store owner change the name of his storefront, the Roubaix Cafe, because Specialized make a bike called the Roubaix. Forget that they got the name from a city in France. Traxxas' legal arm isn't doing anything every other corporation doesn't do.

All that aside, why isn't anyone talking about the ISPs? Every other site that I looked at from the shutdown list is still going-- DSM, Jenny's, FlubRC, etc-- literally all of them are still running save for CCxRC.

[tigris99]

Originally Posted by DrIsotope

In the cycling world, Park Tool has tried to sue anyone and everyone that makes a product in a shade of blue even remotely close to Park Tool Blue-- including Shimano, whose blue isn't even close. Specialized had a store owner change the name of his storefront, the Roubaix Cafe, because Specialized make a bike called the Roubaix. Forget that they got the name from a city in France. Traxxas' legal arm isn't doing anything every other corporation doesn't do.

All that aside, why isn't anyone talking about the ISPs? Every other site that I looked at from the shutdown list is still going-- DSM, Jenny's, FlubRC, etc-- literally all of them are still running save for CCxRC.

Actually every one of them was down for some period of time. Any site using a e-commerce site like shopify was shut down for a bit over this.

Many are back up.

I know the crap from the cycling world myself as well. As well as other industries. And the vast majority oth them the company doing the whining about IP got slapped right out of the courthouses.

Traxxas is the only rc brand to go THIS FAR. Horizon/axial and so on don't give a rats ass. Upgrades mean they sell more rigs and parts, so win win. Traxxas just needs a good old "punch in the mouth" legally and their shit will stop.

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[cul8tr]

I gave up on traxxas when they went after Arrma. I did get a used trx4 just to see if it was any count. It will be given to a friend now along with the traxx kit and spare axles. All bought or traded for were used not new.
I looked at the trx4m but remembering how they did Arrma, I walked away.
Why waste my money on traxxas when they do this crap. Why should I support them my money to fund this crap.
I can support plenty of other brands with my money.