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10-05-2007, 10:19 PM
| #1 |
| 06 Super National Champ   Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Stark Industries Bar and Grill
Posts: 11,361
|  Soldier at Ft. Sill OK killed by .50 cal
Just talked to my wife, her brother was running an indoor training area, training soldiers on operation and use of the .50 cal. They were using dummy rounds (no live rounds, no blanks), and had been for hours. Somehow, some way, one of the soldiers got shot in the chest by a .50 cal from about 12 yards. My brother-in-law immediately called Range Control, notified them of the situation while tending to the soldier. The soldier lived for two hours. Details are sketchy, but something is up. They couldn't find the spent cartridge anywhere. How does a live round magically appear, get fired, then the cartridge just disappear? I'm sure that place was locked tight as soon as the incident happened. I'm baffled as to how the cartridge cannot be found. Freaky. It took forever to get anyone on site to carry him to the ER, and to further complicate things, once they got him to the first ER, they acted like they didn't know how to treat a gunshot wound...and sent him elsewhere. My brother-in-law was like "WTF are you talking about? What kind of sh1t is this? You don't know how to treat a gunshot wound?" He was with him from the time he got shot until he died. Several things went wrong, it seems. :-( Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Here's the news story that's in the OKC news: http://www.koco.com/news/14277283/detail.html Last edited by JasonInAugusta; 10-05-2007 at 10:26 PM. |
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10-05-2007, 10:23 PM
| #2 |
| Winner of the '07 RCC dumbass award! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Up on a Mountain, out in the Woods
Posts: 661
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Jfk.
Last edited by WheelChair; 10-05-2007 at 11:51 PM. |
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10-05-2007, 10:28 PM
| #3 | |
| Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: OC, Oregon
Posts: 803
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10-06-2007, 07:35 AM
| #4 | |
| I wanna be Dave  Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Martinsburg WV
Posts: 2,781
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THis was just an operational exercise? Not even blanks? A guy gets shot indoors at close range and no one can find a spent case? Even if they were firing blank rounds a spent real case would stand out like a sore thumb on the floor. If they were using dummy rounds to simply simulate action cycling of the weapon, it would be the ONLY case on the floor. Someone picked up the spent case. How many soldiers were present? Someone else had to have seen at least a glimpse of someone chambering a live round, swinging the muzzle of the weapon over 90 degrees from downrange (unless this guy WAS downrange when he was shot - you stated he was hit at a range of 12 yards - and at an indoor facility there's no real need to even be downrange in the first place) firing the first live powder charge to be heard that day (training with dummy rounds for hours, the range would have been reletively quiet - for a firing range anyway - unless there were live or blank rounds being fired in adjacent sections) and then immediately concealing a spent case that would have been too hot to handle with bare hands. And no one can point a finger at a trigger-man? Definitely weird. Quote:
Now, my friends all tell me all the time about how I'm such a conspiracy theorist. But this just sounds weird. A soldier is shot during a training exercise using dummy rounds, yet no spent case can be found. Upon getting to the ER on base, his situation must have been dire, yet he recieved no treatment and was transferred to a county hospital outside of the base where he was pronounced dead? Something is definitely fishy here... Last edited by Big Mike; 10-06-2007 at 07:55 AM. | |
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10-06-2007, 02:20 PM
| #5 |
| 20K Club  Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sending illegals home one Hayabusa at a time.
Posts: 22,981
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Sounds pretty traumatic for your brother-in-law as well. I feel bad for the soldiers family and your bro-in-law. Hope this gets figured out for everyones sake. Sounds like some policies need to be looked at in that hospital as well. |
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10-06-2007, 03:13 PM
| #6 |
| Rock Crawler Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: portland
Posts: 584
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something is going on there. someone had to have loaded the rifle with a stolen round or something. You know they check and re check the rifles for live ammo before handing them out. And no shell? I bet my bottom dollar that is was intentional. There are too many vague details and pieces of the story missing. knowone seen who fired the round?  |
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10-06-2007, 03:31 PM
| #7 |
| Quarry Creeper Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 252
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thats sounds like a COVER Up!!!!!!  |
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10-06-2007, 03:39 PM
| #8 |
| RCC Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: VARCOR
Posts: 1,826
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Sniper from outside the training group? Sad day. Hopes to his/her family. |
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10-06-2007, 05:21 PM
| #9 |
| I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 8,009
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I'm amazed that an ER at an Army base doen't know how to treat a gunshot wound The rest of the story is damn fishy. Keep us updated if you hear anything. |
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10-06-2007, 05:51 PM
| #10 |
| Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tasmania
Posts: 355
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Condolences to the guys family... But... I'm no ballistics expert, but I can tell you one thing. If there is 20-30 guys blowing off blanks (and not Nuke power plant workers - Sorry ), and one rifle has discharged a live slug, they would know which one it was, considering the exercise was halted immediately after, presuming they wanted i.d. the shooter, and the ER wasn't instructed not to treat him.Also, can I say Brandon Lee?. Last edited by Badmuthatrucker; 10-06-2007 at 05:53 PM. |
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10-06-2007, 05:58 PM
| #11 | |
| ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ  Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: In tha Bush of Louisiana
Posts: 4,343
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10-06-2007, 06:00 PM
| #12 | |
| 06 Super National Champ Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Stark Industries Bar and Grill
Posts: 11,361
| Quote:
Not blanks, DUMMY rounds. | |
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10-06-2007, 07:14 PM
| #13 |
| Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tasmania
Posts: 355
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Ah, see... Not a ballistics expert at all...  Sorry.
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10-06-2007, 08:35 PM
| #14 |
| Release your anger..   Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: North American Union
Posts: 1,063
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*shudders* That is very disturbing.:? How can you get "magically" shot in the chest with a phantom dummy round and die  I hope the bastards who shot him and the guys who covered it up get sent to military prison. |
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10-06-2007, 11:29 PM
| #15 |
| Newbie Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hot and Dry AZ
Posts: 6
| That sucks
As a soldier it sucks to hear these training accident stories. One that sticks out in my head was about a year ago. When a soldier takes his M4 or M16 to the firing range he/she gets a cleaning rod run down the barrel of his/her rifle to make sure the rifle is clear of ammunition, this is known also known as "rodded". The cleaning rods are screwed together in sections. When the drill instructer rodded on one particular soldier a section of rod remained in his/her rifle. The first round that he/she fired blew up the rifle, killing the young soldier. Since then the Army has changed the rodding equipment to a solid brass rod to prevent further accidents. Edit: I read the news story. I'm a trainer on the M2 .50 cal, which I'm assuming was the weapon that killed the soldier since artillery soldiers don't use sniper rifles. When we train with dummy rounds they are linked together and relinked after every training round. I can only assume that when they were practicing weapon clearing drills since that is usually when we use dummy rounds. I'm guessing someone that relinked the rounds was getting rid of live round which if caught with would pay dire punishment from the drill instuctors. Unfortunatly the young troop paid the costs for someone elses mistake. Thats my 2 cents. My prayers go out to the family of the fallen. Last edited by GizmoII; 10-07-2007 at 12:08 AM. |
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10-07-2007, 07:43 AM
| #16 |
| Dirt Addict   Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stumblin' thru the parking lot of an invisible 7-Eleven
Posts: 1,053
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Doesn't the situation imply a live round in the mix AND the weapon getting aimed at the soldier while being fired. If so....there's multiple things gone wrong. And, as Jason mentioned....the shell casing disappeared. Make little sense ?? Jay |
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10-07-2007, 03:17 PM
| #17 |
| Quarry Creeper  Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: LexVegas
Posts: 295
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Well I am not suprised it took so long to get help there. Last week I was instructing a class on re-quals and one of the students tore his quad muscle and went down. The tower officer called the control center and asked for an EMT and an ambulance and the control officer refused to send an ambulance until the on sight EMT ordered it. He has now been informed by our Captain that if "one of the guys in the red shirts calls for an ambulance you call a f&*#ing ambulance." It took over 45 minutes to get one.
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10-07-2007, 07:18 PM
| #18 |
| 06 Super National Champ Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Stark Industries Bar and Grill
Posts: 11,361
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I've ran several live round ranges in my day (from range safety to being the guy in the tower) and never had an issue. I cannot, for the life of me, see how something like this could even be a remote possibility of happening. (Jay, you're right...live round and some dumb-*** pointing the thing at another soldier) As soon as it happened the facility would be locked tighter than a gnat's a$$ and NOBODY (don't give a fawk who you are) would leave until that round was found. MREs would be brought in and NOBODY would leave. I worked in several highly secure facilities and there was no tolerance for stupidity when it came to procedure. Lose/misplace a piece of encryption equipment or a weapon and the entire Company would be locked down until it was found...and the poor soul that lost/misplaced the equipment would have hell to pay. I'd loose my head if one of my soldiers was shot during training. A 19 year-old getting shot in the chest with a live round while at a simulator range is inexcusable. Last edited by JasonInAugusta; 10-07-2007 at 07:20 PM. |
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10-07-2007, 09:10 PM
| #19 |
| Rock Crawler Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hawaii
Posts: 709
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I've also run a lot of ranges and this incident is beyond weird. It always would amaze me hearing some of the stuff that happens during training. About 10 years ago a soldier was shot during an FTX when both live rounds and blanks were issued. But that was as much an operational error (rules have changed since) as an operator error. And you wouldn't believe the stuff I used to see come out of the amnesty boxes. Buejeep, I am surprised too hear that Range Control took so long, especially on a live fire range. They normally leave the decsion for MedEvac up to the range OIC or range safety OIC. They just coordinate it to come in and send all ranges cold. JIA, I know what you mean in regards to COMSEC. That is in an area by itself. Communication key and the facilities they are held in are usually one of the most secure areas on any base. One lost key or security violation to actual keys (not the training stuff) and all hell breaks lose, post locked down, MPs running with locked and loaded weapons, the whole show. I seen it happen when I was going through the COMSEC course when a student buzzed out of the facility and pushed the wrong button, we were all kissing pavement. I feel for your brother in-law too, that kinda stuff stays with you for life. Last edited by hawnmt; 10-07-2007 at 10:48 PM. |
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10-07-2007, 09:30 PM
| #20 |
| Rock Crawler Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: portland
Posts: 584
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So what, the soldier shoved a piping hot .50 cal round up his crack? thats the only way i can see it disappearing. And talk about a snowballs chance in hell that a military base medical unit can't treat a gun shot wound. I have heard some stories but wow. I think its time for a little internal investigation. For sure!!!
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