-10 Point Judging Bonus

[666]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

I respect your opinion Pat, but I also think that it may reflect your score if you didn't judge.

I realize it affects my score, and I don't believe it should. I have been driving like shit and I should be rewarded for it!!

[Norcal crawler]

I'm not a CO guy, but imo, the -10 shouldnt be a rule. The scores should be based on driver skill, not judging. I voted to give them $5 because at the comps i go to, i see how hard it can be to judge. You can't watch other people run other courses so when you are up for those, you have to kinda start over. But again, the scores should have NOTHING to do with judging, or anything else besides driving. Thats totally unfair to everyone else who didn't judge, and those who actually earned their points by their skill.

[THnCS]

Originally Posted by BENDER

Agreed, I don't think it should be changed now, it's too late. Like Griz stated, he never ran the finals course at event one. Just saying you got 5th isn't really fair either, he may have schooled everyone on the finals course.

Everyone saw how I completely choked and Stewey whipped my ass on the finals at PP!!

[Wrecker]

Originally Posted by BENDER

Agreed, I don't think it should be changed now, it's too late. Like Griz stated, he never ran the finals course at event one. Just saying you got 5th isn't really fair either, he may have schooled everyone on the finals course.

Yes, but saying he got 6th is even more unfair. I would rather have 5th than 6th even if it's still not 100% accurate.

[jason]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

Either way, we may be just using up bandwidth if Jason tells us to pack sand.

I am not totally opposed to anything. This is just as much all of yours series as it is mine.

I don't want people to think I just pulled the -10 thing from my ass. I talked to a lot of people about it last year and everyone I talked to liked the idea.

If we decide to change the past 2 events all I am going to do is remove the -10 from each person and resort by the totals, there will be no hypothetical stuff added "if I would have ran the finals course..."

The main reason we did this is because I got sick and tired of begging for judges at every event. I personally do not judge for 2 reasons, 1. I suck at it, my ADD takes over and I end up watching the driver or bs'ing and not keeping score. 2. I spend hours doing the scoring for each event.

With that said how about let's all come up with ideas on how you'd like to go about this and we'll make a new poll for everyone to vote on.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by Norcal crawler

I'm not a CO guy, but imo, the -10 shouldnt be a rule. The scores should be based on driver skill, not judging. I voted to give them $5 because at the comps i go to, i see how hard it can be to judge. You can't watch other people run other courses so when you are up for those, you have to kinda start over. But again, the scores should have NOTHING to do with judging, or anything else besides driving. Thats totally unfair to everyone else who didn't judge, and those who actually earned their points by their skill.

I think the concept is valid though. It was meant to take away the points you would accumulate by not getting a chance to learn the best lines. For the top drivers this isn't a big deal, they drive well anyway, but for others it is an incentive to judge without hurting their score. Just my thoughts.

I wouldn't judge for money, I'd rather have the opportunity to study lines.

[Wrecker]

Originally Posted by jason

I am not totally opposed to anything. This is just as much all of yours series as it is mine.

I don't want people to think I just pulled the -10 thing from my ass. I talked to a lot of people about it last year and everyone I talked to liked the idea.

If we decide to change the past 2 events all I am going to do is remove the -10 from each person and resort by the totals, there will be no hypothetical stuff added "if I would have ran the finals course..."

The main reason we did this is because I got sick and tired of begging for judges at every event. I personally do not judge for 2 reasons, 1. I suck at it, my ADD takes over and I end up watching the driver or bs'ing and not keeping score. 2. I spend hours doing the scoring for each event.

With that said how about let's all come up with ideas on how you'd like to go about this and we'll make a new poll for everyone to vote on.

Yes, you shouldn't ever have to judge. You put enough time into all of the behind the scenes stuff as it is.

I like the removing 10 points from the scores and resorting idea too, no bs'ing blah blah blah stuff.

I think we should pull numbers out off a hat for all 6 judges at each comp.
If you don't know the rules don't compete!

Also, like I said earlier, I'm down for being a dedicated judge if need be.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by jason

If we decide to change the past 2 events all I am going to do is remove the -10 from each person and resort by the totals, there will be no hypothetical stuff added "if I would have ran the finals course..."

In that case I would still be in 8th place for event 1 because of my 50 for course 4.

I am opposed to changing anything at this point in the series.
In the future, if we kept this, I'd suggest a smaller bonus of 5 points.

[THnCS]

Originally Posted by jason

The main reason we did this is because I got sick and tired of begging for judges at every event. I personally do not judge for 2 reasons, 1. I suck at it, my ADD takes over and I end up watching the driver or bs'ing and not keeping score.

So is that the reason I did so bad on the finals course!!!

[Unholy]

Do you guys have a -10 bonus gate? If so, just give them the -10 and don't make/let them attempt the bonus gate.

[racerx]

Sometimes we do the bonus gate stuff, but most of the time not.

[30percent]

Rocket----------> My Idea= BOOM!
Consistency is important. I see your point. Now that I really get the gears turning I see now why it came down to -10. But still the comp should be decided based on performance on the course not clip board...

Well thats all I had atm... back to brainstorming. It seems a free entry into the comp is pretty good reward.

Has anyone talked to Axial about sponsoring the series? Maybe they could supply give-a-ways for judges @ these events in turn you take $5 off axial drivers (Axial Event) entry or post banners and all that at comp?? Thoughts?

[Rubbaneck]

I'm just happy having fun. Thanks, Judges and Jason for your personal time every comp.

We should can the -10. Then everyone should pitch in for a Shotgun Willies "judges" party. That place always makes a difference.

[BENDER]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

I think the concept is valid though. It was meant to take away the points you would accumulate by not getting a chance to learn the best lines. For the top drivers this isn't a big deal, they drive well anyway, but for others it is an incentive to judge without hurting their score. Just my thoughts.

I think it's valid too. I judged a course in supers last comp that yeilded the best score of 37. It didn't work in my advantage to judge this course, no one was going to finish. Then I'm called to run course 3. I see one guy run the last 2 gates, then I watch a guy come back from repair and run the last 3 gates. The hardest part of the course was the beginning, and I didn't get to see anyone run it. I came in and clipped the first 2 gates in a row, and almost fell off the ledge., barely finished the course with a few seconds left and one back-up would have pointed me out. I know I could have at least missed one of those 2 gates if I had seen a few others run the first half.

Then I go back to judge for a while.

Now I'm called to run course 2. I get to watch one guy before me start, but point out 1/2 way through. Now it's my turn and I didn't see anyone run the 2nd half of the course. I got lucky and cleaned it.

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

In that case I would still be in 8th place for event 1 because of my 50 for course 4.

I am opposed to changing anything at this point in the series.
In the future, if we kept this, I'd suggest a smaller bonus of 5 points.

I agree, step up and judge people. I'm sure I'm going to be beat, or bumped out of the top 5 for it, somewhere down the line.

Just my 2 cents.

[racerx]

How bout free RCC Swag for Judges! I would gladly trade my -20 points for the series for a Shirt, Hat or Hoodie!!

[STEW<CO>]

Originally Posted by wrecker

First, it completely misrepresents how people actually drove that day. The final standings and awards are not going to the best driver, they're going to the ok driver that started off with -10 points. Now you hurt both benders and my feelers on that one!

In both the first and second comps of the winner series the first place guy only won because of a judging bonus.

I would agree.

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

Judging hurts most of the people that volunteer to do it, I truly believe that. I think it is good to reward the judges but perhaps the 10 points is too much. At the first event I actually finished in 5th by "driving" points and beat Bender for the first time in my life. With the judging bonuses I ended up in 8th place.
It made a big difference in 2.2 at Event 1 because the final scores really came down to only 1 course, the other 2 courses were 38 or 39 for almost everyone. I would agree with all that.
At Event 2 it made a difference in super for Brad but now he has used up all of his bonuses.
At Event 1 it made no real difference in Super cuz everyone used the bonus for 2.2 and at Event 2 it had no effect on the top 10 for 2.2.

Event 1
2.2 class-Big effect on top 10
Super-No effect on any of the entries

Event 2
2.2 class-No effect on top 10
super class-Affected 1st and 10th out of the top 10.

Was I disappointed to lose my 5th place spot at event 1 in 2.2? Yes, but I don't see it as ruining the scoring system or anyone's chance at Nationals. The one thing I would say is that I think if you judge super, the bonus should be good only for super, not for 2.2. The bonus is there because you didn't get to watch that class, if you judge super you still get to watch everyone in 2.2 run. I agree.

Super before judges got -10 and before finals course.

rubbaneck 39 1st
wrecker 54 2nd
jason 66 3rd
bender 68 4th
turtle 72 5th

after judges got -10 and before finals course.

rubbaneck 1st
wrecker 2nd
bender 3rd
jason 4th
turtle 5th

after finals course with -10
Bender 1st
wrecker 2nd
rubbaneck 3rd
jason 4th
turtle 5th

without judging bonus it would have been

wrecker 1st
rubbaneck 2nd
jason 3rd
bender 4th
turtle 5th

Now I know why your upset wrecker! By the way 6th place didn't get shafted out of anything.


I agree a -10 is a lot, but like Grizzly said, when you judge it is a detriment and makes it tougher on the rest of your runs. Usually, you end up running all three courses in a row which sucks.
I also think you can't reset it now, it is to late. Like grizzly stated, he would need to run a finals course that is no longer set-up and the conditions wouldn't be the same.

This judging thing is strategic, you still need to drive well the day you judge or it won't help you that much at all, which I have seen in the 1st 2 comps.

What I don't understand is that with all the people at these comps, there should be a new group of judges at every comp, except maybe in supers. If the vets need to call out to help a newbie, then they should do it, every member should learn how to judge. I offered for Rogue and will offer to help any others also, just as long as other people that understand the rules help out too.

The only discrepancy I saw in the scores was Dirks 122, which should actually be 160 Sorry Dirk!

[Zardoz]

In comp 1, I would have beaten Patrick isn't wasnt for the darned -10!!

[THnCS]

I hate to say this, but StewCO has some good points!!! What about a mentoring program. The first comp you judge, you have one of you old seasoned veterans there to hold our hands and make sure we are not screwing it up. That has been my biggest fear! I know most of the rules but some of them are a judgement call and honestly don't know them all that well. I am with Griz, I like watching others run before me. What about some sort of 4th judge(floater), that will releive everyone on a rotational basis. That way everyone can see the courses and still have the consitancy of the same judges.

[STEW<CO>]

The only way the hat thing works is if everyone is put in and then when your number is pulled that number is removed till everyone has had a turn judging. Judging is cool to do in my opinion, but I also think it affects your runs and should be rewarded. Maybe a -5 instead and you only get it in the class you run/judge.
I'm also for a different way to reward judges that doesn't affect the scoring, what ever will appease.
When I 1st heard about this rule I also thought it could be unfair, but I realized it was a rule and adapted to it. I think the overall will even out when everyone judges and things will be just fine.

I state again that I think it shouldn't be changed until next year!

On another note, should a competitor be able to pass his spot to the nationals to the next guy down on the totum pole that can go?

[jason]

Originally Posted by racerx

How bout free RCC Swag for Judges! I would gladly trade my -20 points for the series for a Shirt, Hat or Hoodie!!

Sweet, so I can pay all the judges myself!