-10 Point Judging Bonus

[slugzracing]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

Slugz, laying it all out in black and white. You scared me a bit.

I'm not even drinking yet

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by STEW

I offered for Rogue and will offer to help any others also, just as long as other people that understand the rules help out too.

I want to do my part, but like slugs stated the first time being a judge is a little intimating. I would like the extra points but that is not the real reason that I wanted to try to judge. I thought that it could help me become a better driver since I could see how everyone would take different lines and what worked and what failed. My fear of judging would be to not do it correct or missing something, having my mistake affect the result of the comp. I want to do it and in talking to STEWCO at the last comp he said that he would help call out what I needed to mark down. I think this would be great for all those that have not judged. I know that I do not know all the rules. I could read all of them over and over, but will I know all of them or recall all of them while up there?? probably not, I've only been to three comps and have better understanding of the rules or how to bend them each time. It would be nice to have someone that could help with some of the things that us "noobs" don't know or haven't seen yet so that everyone could be scored fairly. What ever is decided in the end for points or no points, money or no money, I will judge, but I do want some help the first time so I don't affect the outcome of the series.
My $.02 from a noobs point of view.

[Wrecker]

I willing to help out any of the new guys judge or have some new guys hang out with me while I judge.

[TURTLE]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

Sorry Rich, but I don't agree that you got screwed. I think Brad got screwed on course 3 by not being able to watch and come up with a game plan. The -10 only put him back to where he prolly would have been if he had seen a bunch of guys run. His skill pulled him through on course 2, an average driver might not have been able to clean the course without seeing anyone run it.
Did everyone on course 3 hit those first two gate markers? If not, I'm sure Brad could have figured out how not to if he wasn't judging.

Not trying to be a dick, just trying to point out why I think the system works. The situation at event 2 is a good example.

Got to add my bit. So to me it seems that when we judge we run to the next course and are usually aloud to watch one or two drivers before we go, or tell use what lines people are running. ya know?

[Rubbaneck]

Yeah let's go to the GUN....

We can talk about: scoring, judge bonus points, stockings, how to help us noob judges, do some shots, wheel weight options, garter belts etc....

I like the idea of attaching training wheels to us noob judges. I've ran races before and this will be just another great adventure in the sport.

WAITRESS !!!

[BENDER]

Originally Posted by jason

Sweet, so I can pay all the judges myself!

I'm in, thanks for the chance.

Originally Posted by jason

Bad idea. Say that judge is more liberal on handing out reverses.

If he judges all the competitors on 1 course thay all get that advantage on that 1 course.
If he judges 1 group on every course, I'll bet your winners will be in that group;)

Good point.

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

Remember Brad's example? This isn't free points (well, it is if you judge supers and use the points towards 2.2 it is), this is to make up for points a judge accumulates from not getting to learn what lines work.

This is true too, everyone has the opportunity to get the same benefit. But not if we change things now.

Here's another example from the first event in the 2.2 class. I judged the most doable course, and saw the right lines numerous times, but still struggled on one section and it cost me. Then I ran the other 2 courses right in a row without seeing one person run anything. But, heard people finished one course and almost finished the second. I didn't even make the first gate on one course (stupid designer ) Then I barely made it two gates in on the second course. I know I could have done better on that day too, if I had seen a few runs/attempts.

I think the -10 is turning out to be a little bigger factor then expected, because we have 50 guys that are all decent drivers, and the points spread is tight for the top 5. It wasn't like that for the last 2 years, guys would win by 30 points, instead of 3-5.

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

Sorry Rich, but I don't agree that you got screwed. I think Brad got screwed on course 3 by not being able to watch and come up with a game plan. The -10 only put him back to where he prolly would have been if he had seen a bunch of guys run. His skill pulled him through on course 2, an average driver might not have been able to clean the course without seeing anyone run it.
Did everyone on course 3 hit those first two gate markers? If not, I'm sure Brad could have figured out how not to if he wasn't judging.

Not trying to be a dick, just trying to point out why I think the system works. The situation at event 2 is a good example.

x2 Not bashing you Rich in anyway.

Rubbaneck cleaned the course I was talking about, as well as a few others if I remember right, so it was doable.

Originally Posted by Nluvwithxlr8ing

This is good reading guys. In Norcal its been basically the same guys judging EVERY comp, its getting old and I would love to have a break. However nobody steps up and offers to judge :-(

Exactly what jason is trying to avoid. Guys like Griz and Slugz judge a lot and it isn't fair to them. Their results will suffer because of it. The -10 forces people to learn the ropes/rules of comps.

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

I also think Rubbaneck has a good idea with the Shotgun Willie's thing.

I'm in thanks for the chance.

Originally Posted by jason

Judge a course, get a lap dance, I don't think anyone is gonna argue with that.

See above ^^^^^

Originally Posted by Rogue

I want to do my part, but like slugs stated the first time being a judge is a little intimating. I would like the extra points but that is not the real reason that I wanted to try to judge. I thought that it could help me become a better driver since I could see how everyone would take different lines and what worked and what failed. My fear of judging would be to not do it correct or missing something, having my mistake affect the result of the comp. I want to do it and in talking to STEWCO at the last comp he said that he would help call out what I needed to mark down. I think this would be great for all those that have not judged. I know that I do not know all the rules. I could read all of them over and over, but will I know all of them or recall all of them while up there?? probably not, I've only been to three comps and have better understanding of the rules or how to bend them each time. It would be nice to have someone that could help with some of the things that us "noobs" don't know or haven't seen yet so that everyone could be scored fairly. What ever is decided in the end for points or no points, money or no money, I will judge, but I do want some help the first time so I don't affect the outcome of the series.
My $.02 from a noobs point of view.

Don't think we are bashing you newer guys either, not the case at all. We want you guys to be comfortable with the rules before grabbing a clipboard. Worst case scenario is you stop the clock and ask one of the vets, we'll all help bring everyone up to speed. I'm not a perfect judge either, I find myself spectating at times, and probably miss a reverse or two. It'll happen it's just human nature.

I need a nap after that one.

[slugzracing]

Originally Posted by Rubbaneck

Yeah let's go to the GUN....

We can talk about: scoring, judge bonus points, stockings, how to help us noob judges, do some shots, wheel weight options, garter belts etc....

I like the idea of attaching training wheels to us noob judges. I've ran races before and this will be just another great adventure in the sport.

WAITRESS !!!

Regardless of the rules, you should never be given a bonus

[Rubbaneck]

Originally Posted by slugzracing

Regardless of the rules, you should never be given a bonus

I might be able to get the adults/judges a free entry to The Place.

[racerx]

Originally Posted by Rubbaneck

I might be able to get the adults/judges a free entry to The Place.

Why? You got the V.I.P. section hook-up?

[Stormin2u]

Not a Crawlerado guy, but found your thread very interesting. I can see the club I crawl with getting to this discussion sooner than later and you guys did a good job covered all the angles. Good luck I'll be interested to in the outcome.

P.S. Slugz crawled with us last summer and he volunteered for anything and everything he could. He even fixed my truck for me with his own parts. That's heck of a member you have there. There is no substitute for enthusiastic members in a club organization and he's a great role model.

[666]

Originally Posted by Stormin2u

P.S. Slugz crawled with us last summer and he volunteered for anything and everything he could. He even fixed my truck for me with his own parts. That's heck of a member you have there. There is no substitute for enthusiastic members in a club organization and he's a great role model.

x2, Slugz is probably one of the best people I have met through this site.

[Wrecker]

Originally Posted by 666

x2, Slugz is probably one of the best people I have met through this site.

Yup, Slugz is a great guy.

[Zardoz]

I know I am looking forward to judging, not for the points either. I would just like to help so the same people do not have to do it every comp. I have only been to a couple of comps but the scoring isn't that difficult, IMO. My only fear is that if something odd happened that is borderline on the rules, it would be nice to have a "helper" judge. So I like the idea of having a trainer for the first few times.

Maybe we could even do some mock comps in between the Winter series comps to not only get some crawling practice but to also get some judging practice.

Oh yeah, on the topic of the -10 for judging. I think -10 is a bit much so I voted for a free entry into a comp. I think comps should about the driving skill, period. Im a purist How about a free entry and -5 points....flame on.

[Slickrock450]

Whew this is a lot to take in!

First I vote for the lap dance idea!!!! (This should be added to the poll) No pun intended...

I know that it is tough to have everyone meet up and get together, but I think that Zardoz has a good idea. Having a get together with a mock comp course and teaching us newbs the correct way to judge, would be less stressful and less intimidating. If it were something that could be arranged I would be all for it. If not I will just park myself next to a judge at the next comp learn and ask questions.

Also think that it should be -5 and free entry to your class of choice!

[xgerstandtx]

Some how I read through that and understand most peoples views and ideas. As a noob for sure i would like to volunteer to judge anytime. Having a vet around for a little advice and maybe just get an idea of all the techniques sounds great. So getting a video together like it was talked in another thread to outline certain rules sounds invaluable.

[Wrecker]

So it seems as the majority of the people feel that there needs to be some change in this rule. How would you like to go about this now Jason?

[STEW<CO>]

Originally Posted by wrecker

So it seems as the majority of the people feel that there needs to be some change in this rule. How would you like to go about this now Jason?

I still don't think it would be fair to change it now, and not just because it helped me. There has been two comps already on this system, to change it now would just screw everything up. I think we need to continue and change it next time.

I don't understand why it is a major concern to you if you don't plan on making every comp and wouldn't be in the running for Nats anyways?
What's the deal?

[slowrockr]

Well I'll throw my pennys in for what it's worth. I'm not so sure I really like the idea of giving -10 for judging. Sure it's a hell of an incentive to step up and judge but I think with the amount of people we have showing up now there shouldn't and probaby wouldn't be a need to worry about getting judges. Since we already have 2 events in the books my vote goes to keeping it the way it is and look for change next year.

[Wrecker]

Originally Posted by STEW

I don't understand why it is a major concern to you if you don't plan on making every comp and wouldn't be in the running for Nats anyways?
What's the deal?

Because if you only attend comps on a one at a time basis each comp is the only thing that matters. If you attended two comps, and placed say top three in each but both times you were bumped out of the top three because of judges you'd be pissed. The whole point of competing is to win, face it, that's the only reason we do this. If we wanted to go out and crawl and have a good time just to have a good time we would save the $$ and just have a get together, then at least you get to actually drive you're rig for more than 15 minutes. If you go to a comp and earn a win but don't get it because of an unfair bonus, what's the point of competing then?

[STEW<CO>]

Originally Posted by wrecker

Because if you only attend comps on a one at a time basis each comp is the only thing that matters. If you attended two comps, and placed say top three in each but both times you were bumped out of the top three because of judges you'd be pissed. The whole point of competing is to win, face it, that's the only reason we do this. If we wanted to go out and crawl and have a good time just to have a good time we would save the $$ and just have a get together, then at least you get to actually drive you're rig for more than 15 minutes. If you go to a comp and earn a win but don't get it because of an unfair bonus, what's the point of competing then?

I gotcha bro, I also think it should be changed, I just don't know about at this time.