Scale requirements for comp

[rollover3t]

I was at the last comp in the alley and NOW have a rig almost ready. I remember Rogue mentioning something something about forward lights. Is this a requirement? Where can I find the 'loose' rules? can anyone help me out?

[TURTLE]

I don't believe you are required to have lights its just a points reduction.

The only thing people really cry about is MOA, but if you look hard enough, they are out there. If you can dream it good chance a 1:1 exists. Sky is the limit (at least it should be).

[chrisjlittle]

I think the only real requirements are that the frame extend over the axles, no dig and (probably) no MOA. Mostly just trying to keep comp rigs out, but it's a pretty chill group, so you might be able to fudge a little. I bet if you drove badly enough no one would even complain about you using a comp rig.

[RPMJ]

I think the rules are in this this thread but the only rule is the chassis must go past axles Start of a new Scale Series

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by rollover3t

I was at the last comp in the alley and NOW have a rig almost ready. I remember Rogue mentioning something something about forward lights. Is this a requirement? Where can I find the 'loose' rules? can anyone help me out?

No you do not have to have lights. You probably heard us talking about the unlimited class where we are trying some thing new. There are only 4 of us that have rigs for that class.
Here is a link to the scale rules that we follow.
Aug 16 9:00 am start of Scale series

Originally Posted by TURTLE

I don't believe you are required to have lights its just a points reduction.

The only thing people really cry about is MOA, but if you look hard enough, they are out there. If you can dream it good chance a 1:1 exists. Sky is the limit (at least it should be).

Yes you are correct, just a scale deduction.
I agree that the sky is the limit, but I also have been trying to follow what the rest of the country is doing for scalers. As much as you may want it, I just do see it happening, just like Patrick and no rules for the Supers, or for me and abolishing the 1.9 comp class. Just going to have to live with it.

Originally Posted by chrisjlittle

I think the only real requirements are that the frame extend over the axles, no dig and (probably) no MOA. Mostly just trying to keep comp rigs out, but it's a pretty chill group, so you might be able to fudge a little. I bet if you drove badly enough no one would even complain about you using a comp rig.

Thanks Chris, yea no dig no MOA no rear steer. We've got enough of that with the comp rigs.

Originally Posted by RPMJ

I think the rules are in this this thread but the only rule is the chassis must go past axles Start of a new Scale Series

Thanks Rodney, they are in there but I just linked to them were they were not being discussed.

[Rogue]

Looking more at what I just posted and reading the thread about starting a scale series. What I posted was the scale deductions. Most of us "Turtle" agreed to builing rigs according to the Scale 4x4 rules located here
This is what we will continue to use for the remander of this series. If at that time people want to change things, then we can look at adapting our own rules.

[monkeyracer]

Originally Posted by Scale4x4 Rules, 2.2 section

> Wheelbase and width: The dimensions of the vehicle are limited only by the body, but it must fit within the body’s fender wells. Width is unrestricted.

So with this rule, are we fudging a little more about the wheels must fit in the fenders? Or is this just saying the wheelbase must be within the fender wells?

A lot of the 2.2's that will be run in our series don't have wheels that fit within the fenders:









So would I be okay running my "widebody-crewcab-chevy?":


I won't have it ready for this weekend, but as long as I get the ABS sheet to do the widebody work, I'll have it ready for the december comp.


I just noticed that everyone in the pics above is running rok lox... hmmm...

[chrisjlittle]

The chevy would certainly be fine. I personally don't think about rules at all when I build scalers, I build what I think looks right. We have enough rules for comp rigs, so fawk it.

And everyone has rock lox because they look cool

[rmdesignworks]

im getting ready to start a scaler,,and im with chris on this one,,i build what looks right to me,,concidering i would do the same thing on a 1:1...

[monkeyracer]

I'm glad our group isn't "stick up their butts" about scalers.

There are some people on this forum that would say it's not scale since it's got a solid front axle and the wheels stick out past the wide fenders. My opinion is that if it can be done to a 1:1 (whether or not it has been) and is as close to scale as it can be with the theme in mind, it's fine.

In the end, if I can't run it in a comp, I'll still run it on my own trail runs.

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by monkeyracer

I'm glad our group isn't "stick up their butts" about scalers.

There are some people on this forum that would say it's not scale since it's got a solid front axle and the wheels stick out past the wide fenders. My opinion is that if it can be done to a 1:1 (whether or not it has been) and is as close to scale as it can be with the theme in mind, it's fine.

In the end, if I can't run it in a comp, I'll still run it on my own trail runs.

I'm not trying to make this sound like an attack.
I know that from previous post you have challenged the ideas of what scale is and what scalers should be. I have no issues with that, but sometimes I think you may take things a little to serious. Yet have never been to a scale event that I know of to see how and what we do.
With you previous post about the wheels fitting within the fender wells. Now if you look at the very first part of the 2.2 scale rules it states "The goal is to have trucks that resemble something you might see driving on a trail. a purpose built off road vehicle (mud truck, hardcore trail truck, non competition rock crawler, ETC.) Understand the "spirit" of the rules and work within them."
Now with that I think the that 2.2 class is a little more "unlimited and creative" None of the rigs that you posted should be questioned in my mind.
Jeeps with full width axles not something that is so out of the ordinary, although mine is a Ram Charger, Blazers that have had fenders cut and pushed in for clearance, The FJ's, one is pretty damn scale and unfinished and has yet to compete, the other is also something that is not all that uncommon to see with full width axles.

Now with all that said, there has never been anyone that I have seen that has been turned away from competing at a scale event, mine or with Mike when he runs his series. We are there to have a good time. Most of the rules are guidelines for what we want and don't want at a scale comp, like no dig, 4WS, and MOA. We have all that with the comp rigs.

The 2.2 class, since it is smaller class is the class that seems to get pushed to the limit more. I also would like to build and compete with rigs that could be taken to most any other event held in the US and be able to run and not have to completely rebuild there rig just for that event. There is a number of us that are talking about going back to Montana for the Scale Nats next year. I know that I don't want to have to rebuild just for one event.

Again I don't want to sound like I'm in anyway attacking you, it's not my intent. I hope that you get your rig running soon and come out to an event.
My biggest thing (at least for my series) is to keep it low key and fun, trying to keep comp style rigs out, we have many different places and series to run those.

[monkeyracer]

Originally Posted by Rogue

What he just said...

I haven't been yet because I can't finish a rig. I'd love to come out and drive with everyone. Also, I was without a license for 6 months, so I was at the mercy of others to bum a ride. I just ordered the plastic I'll need to finish the widebody crew cab, so hopefully I'll make the December comp.

My questions of what scale is and what scalers should be have stemmed from seemingly hypocritical posts on this forum (not by any CO guys, that I know of) that seemed like scalers should be an exact scale representation of the 1:1. Obviously we don't run mini otto cycle engines, so substitutions were made for practicality. I was more trying to point out that if we accept one susbtitution, why not another, especially when the same theory exists in 1:1 scale.

The other rule I thought was a little strange was receiving point deductions for camping scale accessories when at the time the rig I was working on (and gave up on) was a police themed rig, so having a canoe on the roof or little sleeping bags would have not fit the theme. Since now I understand the deductions are for items LIKE camping accessories, I get where the rule came from.

One other rule I thought is strange was the 10.5" width rule for 2.2s. The big hummer I was working on (and gave up on) would have looked ridiculous with a 10.5" wheelbase, and 11" was scale correct.

In the end, I think scalers should be fun. Comp rigs are serious and we can leave some of the BS at the comp crawler comps. I think as long as we can look at a scaler and see that it could exist in 1:1, and it's somewhat proportional to the body, then we can run them. I guess sometimes I have a little problem with rules if I don't fully understand them, but once I get where the motivation for the rule comes from, it usually clicks.

All of the rigs I posted above are awesome, and I've got some great competition in the 2.2 class (when I can finally show up to one.) Everyone's work is so clean and well done. I just hope that mine turns out looking half as nice. I'm not questioning their "scale-ness" just asking if I build my truck with the wheels sticking out a bit, would it be fine.


Lastly, I know some of my previous posts have rubbed some people the wrong way, and I don't intend any of my posts to do that. I can't wait to get to a scale comp, it looks like a whole lot more fun then some of the comp crawler comps.

[chrisjlittle]

I've only heard of the 10.5" width rule being used at the MSD scale nats, but I think the rule is kinda dumb. I don't think you've seen Shelly, slugz hasn't been around for a while, but that rig is the tits, dead on scale and it wouldn't qualify to run in the 2.2 class because it used TXT axles and was too wide

I'm all for a "looks scale" rule. 2.2's under a hotwheels car would not be legal, but if the tires look scale under the body, you're good.

As for scale accesories, I think substitutions are fine. You could expect to get the same deduction for a billyclub in a cop truck as for a sleeping bag. I also think scale spike strips would be a good thing to yard sale on a course

[Rogue]

Monkeyracer, To me scalers are all about fun. Too many rules take away from that. I'm really pretty easy on rules and scale deduction. Also there is no reason that if you rig is not 100% done that you couldn't come out and run it. No reason to miss out on the fun because your missing lights, winch and scale items. I do understand your situation before and was not trying to take shots at you. Now that your able to get to the events I do hope to see you there and you can see and experiance what we do here.

Originally Posted by chrisjlittle

I've only heard of the 10.5" width rule being used at the MSD scale nats, but I think the rule is kinda dumb. I don't think you've seen Shelly, slugz hasn't been around for a while, but that rig is the tits, dead on scale and it wouldn't qualify to run in the 2.2 class because it used TXT axles and was too wide

I'm all for a "looks scale" rule. 2.2's under a hotwheels car would not be legal, but if the tires look scale under the body, you're good.

As for scale accesories, I think substitutions are fine. You could expect to get the same deduction for a billyclub in a cop truck as for a sleeping bag. I also think scale spike strips would be a good thing to yard sale on a course

Yea, that is the only place that i know that runs that limitation. I too do not like that rule and would not impose a rule like that.

Chris you are correct, The idea is to keep it scale and yes if you have a them based rig, you would get scale dedcution for that. No were does it limit you on what scale deduction items are, maybe construction of some parts, or what they are in relation to the type of rig. I wouldn't give a scale deduction for a fire hose in any of the above posted rigs.
Most scale items to me are really unnessary, but most places do give scale points for those items. I didn't want to stray to far from what most others are doing. I do not want to see rolling barbie houses to get those extra scale points.

[TURTLE]

So I cant get scale points for a fire hose in the back of my rig?

So in theory you are saying if someone builds a comp based scaler (like a we roc buggy) they should not have anything in it because that would not be in the real one?

So maybe the scale crap should just not be worth anything anymore.

I think the little stuff looks cool, but in my eyes who the hell would enter a rock crawling comp with a cooler and their camping stuff still in the back?

[monkeyracer]

Originally Posted by Rogue

Monkeyracer, To me scalers are all about fun. Too many rules take away from that. I'm really pretty easy on rules and scale deduction. Also there is no reason that if you rig is not 100% done that you couldn't come out and run it. No reason to miss out on the fun because your missing lights, winch and scale items. I do understand your situation before and was not trying to take shots at you. Now that your able to get to the events I do hope to see you there and you can see and experiance what we do here.

Well, right now, the truck is just like it looks in the picture above; The body is being held together with cardboard and masking tape, and it's just sitting on the axles. I need a chassis, and to at least get the body together.

I might come this weekend just to check everything out, even if I'm not going to drive anything yet. I might see if Anthony (ALIBABBA) will come too. He's got an SCX10 with a lexan body for now (until he mounts up his H2 body) so we can see how things run.

Originally Posted by Rogue

Yea, that is the only place that i know that runs that limitation. I too do not like that rule and would not impose a rule like that.

Chris you are correct, The idea is to keep it scale and yes if you have a them based rig, you would get scale dedcution for that. No were does it limit you on what scale deduction items are, maybe construction of some parts, or what they are in relation to the type of rig. I wouldn't give a scale deduction for a fire hose in any of the above posted rigs.
Most scale items to me are really unnessary, but most places do give scale points for those items. I didn't want to stray to far from what most others are doing. I do not want to see rolling barbie houses to get those extra scale points.

That's sort of why I was questioning that part of the rule, I could put a canoe, a motorcycle, 5 sleeping bags, a cooler and whatever else just to max out points, regardless if it looks right. I felt that if I wanted to build a police themed rig, I'd want to receive similar deductions for things that would match that theme. The problem would be, like you said, building a rig that can be run in anyone's comps. For right now, I will build what I want. If I can run it in these comps, great, if I can't run it in the Montana Nats, then whatever, I wasn't planning on going anyways.

Originally Posted by TURTLE

So I cant get scale points for a fire hose in the back of my rig?

So in theory you are saying if someone builds a comp based scaler (like a we roc buggy) they should not have anything in it because that would not be in the real one?

So maybe the scale crap should just not be worth anything anymore.

I think the little stuff looks cool, but in my eyes who the hell would enter a rock crawling comp with a cooler and their camping stuff still in the back?

I agree with you, if I had a trailer-baby off road only truck, I wouldn't really keep anything in it. You don't want all that crap sliding around in the back. Leave it in the tow rig. If it's your daily driver, then ok, but secure it down and keep it realistic. I see some of the trucks being built on this forum and think "that would never be on a 1:1" but to each his own.

[slowrockr]

Whatever you do, don't forget your Barbie doll drivers.

[cato]

Come on people...why fight everything...there's got to be some rules, as you see in any comp, Scale or not. So if you want to play then play, stop making everything such an ordeal...HAVE FUN... And if you don't like the rules, then don't play....it's as simple as that. I know I'm going to get flamed for my comments, so be it! Go ahead and ruin the fun for the rest of us....:?

[THnCS]

Originally Posted by TURTLE

So maybe the scale crap should just not be worth anything anymore.

I think the little stuff looks cool, but in my eyes who the hell would enter a rock crawling comp with a cooler and their camping stuff still in the back?

YARDSALE!! That is why

Originally Posted by slowrockr

Whatever you do, don't forget your Barbie doll drivers.

Originally Posted by cato

Come on people...why fight everything...there's got to be some rules, as you see in any comp, Scale or not. So if you want to play then play, stop making everything such an ordeal...HAVE FUN... And if you don't like the rules, then don't play....it's as simple as that. I know I'm going to get flamed for my comments, so be it! Go ahead and ruin the fun for the rest of us....:?

Flame ON!!! Build what you want and run, it is scalers. There is no national champion for it, it is all for fun. Like Todd said before, I have never seen anyone turned away before. I have even seen a comp truck in one of our scale comps, even he was still allowed to run. If your truck is out of spec from the rules, you can still run, just the points won't count for the series. I always like the scale events because they were so laid back and nobody gave a crap. Nice hanging with good friends and playing with toy trucks.

[TURTLE]

Originally Posted by cato

Come on people...why fight everything...there's got to be some rules, as you see in any comp, Scale or not. So if you want to play then play, stop making everything such an ordeal...HAVE FUN... And if you don't like the rules, then don't play....it's as simple as that. I know I'm going to get flamed for my comments, so be it! Go ahead and ruin the fun for the rest of us....:?

Damn you need to cry alittle river for us all, tampons runnin low?

Sounded pretty friendly and just exchanging of ideas, plus Todd stepped on his own tongue.