09-25-2010, 04:40 PM | #1 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Chuck Chuck Chuckin Rocks.
Posts: 1,224
| Ideas for Comp Series
There has been some discussion for awhile now about the upcoming season, and future seasons. I am going to post this here and ask for feedback either on this thread or through pm's. No bashing allowed. It's for discussion. If you don't like, please offer a solution or reason. Thanks and let's get started. JC Ideas for Comp Crawling The following ideas are being discussed and we encourage your input to make this series and all series better. A couple of definitions will help before reading on into the topic’s. A1 Pro Class – Will be any driver who pays into the series, where competition will be the foremost ideal on their mind while driving. A2 Amateur Class – Will be any driver with any level of crawler, (yes, any level of crawler meeting spec), that wants to come and crawl on set courses. Now on to more items that have been discussed and are here for your input and reply. Please be as specific, list item(s), with your reply or continued discussion. 1> Everyone entered in the series will take a rotation in the judging pool. 1a The rotation will be based on the list of drivers in the series for the season. These drivers will take judging responsibilities for the whole series. This takes all pressure off of amateurs as far as judging. Although everyone will be invited to keep score, keep time, etc. in conjunction with the assigned judges. 1b Judges will set up courses and assist other judges with same while check-in and tech are in progress. This means an earlier arrival to the comp site is part of that responsibility for those rotating. (those that travel a great distance will be rotated as necessary to prevent traveling pressure for those day(s), i.e. changing your day(s) with another closer to your home) 2>Amateur class has been discussed that it should possibly include all crawler types, not just limited to 2 channel, no dig crawlers. Amateurs are amateurs, we just need to let them get better. Promoting this sport is what we are about. Drivers need to seek their own comfort level and should want to achieve the highest level they are comfortable at. 2aAmateurs will run the first series of gates on the courses as pro’s, but can use the remaining gates of the pro course as bonus gates. (maybe a bonus-land setup) 2b This is only suggested, the amateur courses could also deviate through different gates along the same layout. 3>It is encouraged to keep time running, and the series as professional as possible, that there be a set check-in/tech time. If we are going to be more professional about the series, this needs to happen. (leave earlier if you are consistently late and can’t get there on time). (Judges will be adjusted as necessary for travel length to keep them from being pressured to arrive early and help with set-up.) 3a Keep the courses 4 to 5 minutes max in length. Actually shorter is better. Learning to drive under these conditions proves to be more of the status of a National Event stature. Courses for amateurs will be a minimum amount of gates and/or design to promote good thinking habits without pressure to hurry, hurry, hurry. Pro Drivers are encouraged to remember, you are competitors, competitors deal with pressure and as such will be working on harder course lengths or designs within the same time frame. 4>Series payout should include, what the pro class will be driving for. 4a There should be trophy’s and/or gift cards/cash awards for World’s Event. This has been brought up as past series awards have been late or not received. (not by this series alone) 4b There should also be recognition for the top five amateurs and an invite to join pro status if they wish. (again, it is our wish to promote this sport and it’s ideals) 5>It is agreed that all who enter into the (Series), will be considered of Pro status. 5a Those entering the series will have their scores recorded for the season, top drivers in each of the 3 classes will receive trophy’s paid for from series entry funds. Discussion on the remaining amount as to whether it should be distributed to the top driver in each class or just the top driver in 2.2 is welcome as is all discussion on this topic. 6> It has also been discussed that there be no comp fee. This would not include the series fee as that would be a separate item. 6a This no fee to comp will end the days end payout. It would also, in my opinion encourage more drivers to come and do what this sport is intended to do, enjoy a day on the rocks. (if you are a pro, you are in the series and your payout is the end of the series.) |
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09-25-2010, 05:15 PM | #2 |
RCC Addict Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Crawlerado
Posts: 1,411
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I like the top 3 pay out at the end of the day, seems like it means a little more to have cash in hand than just bragging rights. The pay out doesn't have to be 100% either, 50% for drivers and the other 50% into a general fund for comp supplies would keep any one person from having to buy everything for a comp. What about part of the series fee going back to our top two Nationals qualifiers for plane tickets/hotel whatever they need? Everything else looks good, thanks for typing all that out Skid. |
09-25-2010, 05:26 PM | #3 |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Norco Ca.
Posts: 616
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I like the A1 & A2 idea. 1a & 1b Sound good with a amature helping the more experienced judges. That way we can run 2 judges per course. 2a & 2b Sound good. 3 & 3a Sound good. Maybe put a cut off time for turning in score sheets. Hanging out and partying can be done after. 4 Sounds good. 4a I personaly dont care about trophies. A cash payout to help the top drivers go to Nat's would be sweet. 4b Sounds good maybe offer them a trophy. 5 Is good and maybe pro drivers should continue to pay 5.00 per event towards the pot. 6 Are the comps to be free for the A2 class? I think A2 should buy in at the begining (to help support the club) then comp for free. 6a Sound good but like I stated in for 5 ( maybe pro drivers should continue to pay 5.00 per event towards the pot) That alot to digest and all sounds like great ideas. Maybe we should have a GTG and sit down and discuss this further. Elected / volenteer reps maybe? Last edited by Hoppa; 09-25-2010 at 05:28 PM. |
09-25-2010, 07:15 PM | #4 | |
RCC Addict Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Chuck Chuck Chuckin Rocks.
Posts: 1,224
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Thanks for the input, this is what needs to be posted, read, thought about and discussed. Thanks. JC | |
09-25-2010, 07:18 PM | #5 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: ...the burning end of the rope.
Posts: 5,013
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i just posted this in Patrick's thread,,,but this applies here too I think,, Ive been a part of this discussion around town and I personally think that the seperation needs to be Novice ,Sportsman and Pro. Novice,,,any new driver with any rig in 2.2 spec Sportsman,,,any driver with a digless rig or any Novice driver who has won 3 consecutive 3 course events or placed in the top 3 drivers in 3 consecutive events,,,which ever works best. Then Pro,,,any driver with any rig in 2.2 spec who wants to compete. Any driver with a dig compatible rig who has won 3 consecutive 3 course Sportsman events or placed in the top 3 drivers in 3 consecutive Sportsman events,,,which ever works best. Novice drivers shouldnt have to pay in. Money awards or trophies or whatever. Maybe consider a SERIES PAY-IN,,,$25 for 5 events or $30 for 6 events or whatever. I know some people wont make some events but that is a risk we all run,,things happen in all of our lives. Sporstman and Novice course is seperate from Pro course then Pros can run a Sportsman course and the Pro course if they so choose,,and vice versa, with the Pro rig digless or a seperate sportsman rig. I realize this would require more course set up time but would allow for multiple drivers to compete at once, and drivers could crawl a seperate course while wating their turn or whatever works. |
09-26-2010, 09:07 AM | #6 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Under the 4444
Posts: 2,345
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Far as payouts to series winners that's be cool but only if it went to all 3 classes, only 2.2 would not be fair to the other classes. | |
09-26-2010, 09:11 AM | #7 |
Rock Stacker Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: pueblo colorado
Posts: 83
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i like it
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09-26-2010, 09:49 AM | #8 |
MODERHATER™ Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado
Posts: 10,939
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I like the idea of more people working together. Here is my input. A1) Good with me A2) Amateur/Sport I like the Sport name better. 1> 1a> I like this however I don't think some people should be forced to judge. Some just do not have the aptitude for it, and that could cause inconsistency which is bad. I think a better idea would get a list of people who do have the aptitude, and don't mind judging, and make a pool out of them. 1b> Course setting is my favorite part! The thing I don't think that will work with this is getting all these judges up and setting courses early so we can get started early as discussed in 3. It would have be earlier than during check-in and tech IMO, courses should be set before that so you can go straight from check in to running courses. And again, I don't think some should be forced to set up courses, some just do not have the aptitude for it. 2>I like getting more drivers out, be it pro's or amateur, I would really like to hear more amateurs input on this. This basically fazes out the Sport class: no dig, shafty. Where do guys that have AX-10's or LNC's fit in? Them running against a MOA's with dig would be pretty discouraging to me. There are those guys out there you know! 2a> I like that format, works great! 2b> Good but could cause confusion to judges, and take more time out of the precious day explaining it. K.I.S.S 3> I believe there always has been a set start time so I like that. The only delays have been people that show late and Mother Nature, which we can't control. 3a> I like 5 minute courses. 4 is just a bit too much rush rush for a 10 gate system like I use. I am wondering do you think we should limit Top 5 courses to 5- minutes as well? I thought people like the longer more challenging courses for top 5? 4>Series payout. So if all the series money goes back to top drivers via trophies and paying the 2.2 drivers way to Nats, what pays for comp supplies, insurance and permits that we may need? 4a>I am sorry past series have not gotten their trophies. We all know the circumstances behind it. I still have last seasons, I tried to give them out numerous times, it was requested we do it at a later time, and did not have time too. I tried to get everyone together to hand them out we never came to a conclusion on where and when to meet. 4b> I think everyone should get recognition, that is why we do the trophies at the end. And the cash payout. The loophole I see here is if amateurs don't pay for the series, what pays for their trophies? If that is the case they should enter the series just like everyone else. Also would the top 5 Amateur driver move to pro mid season or at the end of the season? We have always closed the series entry after the second comp in past series, should we change that as well? 5> Good, but as I said earlier why not allow amateurs to enter the series? 5a> Good except I don't think all the payout should go to 2.2, it should be split between the classes respectively. 5b> Up in the air about the $5 entry fee for each class a driver runs that is handed out after every comp. Some people like it some don't maybe we should do a poll? To me this is alot to change 4 weeks before the series starts. I wish this could have been brought up earlier. I do like everyone working together as a group, and hope that everyone can step and do it like mentioned here. Patrick Last edited by 666; 09-26-2010 at 09:53 AM. |
09-26-2010, 04:08 PM | #9 |
Pebble Pounder Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: out crawlin thrown rocks at my rig.
Posts: 193
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whatever,there's alot if words in their and bottom line is not all those rules are goin to sit well with all the different people. but for me it all looks reasonable. at least the judging problem will be solved if u want to add a rule NO SPOTTING. thats what practicing is for, just an idea |
09-26-2010, 04:10 PM | #10 |
Pebble Pounder Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: out crawlin thrown rocks at my rig.
Posts: 193
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thanks skid for taking the time to write that out, even though i don't read that well...... |
09-26-2010, 05:31 PM | #11 |
MODERHATER™ Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado
Posts: 10,939
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Noone else has anything to add? Was last season that bad we need to revamp the whole system? Please tell! Input needed, not just one persons idea's, I would like to hear from all. Last edited by 666; 09-26-2010 at 07:13 PM. |
09-26-2010, 06:57 PM | #12 |
Pebble Pounder Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Posts: 155
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OK, since Patrick asked, I'll add my $0.02. For what it's worth, I have a great time at the comps but I'm not competing to go to Nationals. I'm glad that we have very good, competitive, sponsored drivers in Colorado, but for me that's not why I got into the hobby. That doesn't mean I'm not competitive, just that I'm only showing up for the series itself, and not a slot at Nationals. My main concern is that we maintain the fun atmosphere of the current comps while implementing any of these changes. Also, I'm really glad there are folks that put this much thought and effort into ensuring we have a great Colorado series every year. So, take any comments in the spirit they are intended. 1> Keep judging voluntary but try to get enough people that we can have two judges per course and can rotate out through the day. Judging all day and then trying to drive my best is difficult for me and I've heard similar comments from others. A2, 2> If the idea of a Sportsman Class is to encourage new people into the hobby, then I think the current Pro and Sport classes work well. Make it about skill level and not the rig. MOA's have advantages but so do some chassis, radios, etc. I don't think anyone wants to see a spec class. However, there should be a system for identifying Sportsman drivers that should move up. That way we don't get folks hanging out in the Sportmans class permanently. Instead it will be more of a training class. I like the 5 minimum suggestion on that one. As others have mentioned, single course, first 5 gates for Sportsman. If this doesn't work for a particular course, use alternate gates or divide it into pro and sportsman. Make the call when setting the courses that day instead of trying to create a standard for every situation. 3> Without being too regimented, there should be some sort of set start time. If someone knows they will be late, PM or call the organizor ahead of time. 3a> I like 5 minute courses. Time pressure is good but I'd rather it was part of the mix, not the main concern. 4,5,6> I don't care either way. The entry fees are not a lot, but winning money is never a motivating factor for me at comps. |
09-26-2010, 07:19 PM | #13 |
[HOONIGAN] Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Littleton
Posts: 572
| If something isn't broke why try to fix it....... I don't think we need to make things more confusing.
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09-26-2010, 08:03 PM | #14 | |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Arvada
Posts: 783
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I like this discussion. I think it would be a great idea to have a meeting and discuss this in person too. That way those who attend have a say and little details could be voted on and it could all get handled at one time. | |
09-26-2010, 09:14 PM | #15 |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Norco Ca.
Posts: 616
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Technically this is our club but it's no more of club than Hobbytown. I think we should have more comps than just the winter series. The winter series is ultimately for two National's invites per class and I for one take that serious. Maybe a committee to get toghther and discuss concerns. Maybe during the drivers meeting ask Club members for opinions and suggestions. Having a member of the rules committee that competes would make sense. This is not meant in any disrespect towards Griz but I've only seen him once at a scale comp. If we had meeting's maybe he would show. I think that scores should be posted the same day or the next. Not 2 weeks later. Have a master sheet that is signed by the drivers to eliminate discrepancies. I can find a lap top to put scores in as there turned in. Judging is always going to be a problem because nobody wants to do it. I would like to see 2 Judges per course. At least one that stays on thier course all day or untill the course closes, to keep it consistant. Patrick and Ty I know both of you guys work hard and I do appreciate it. These are some of my concerns and opinions. I hope this doesnt piss any body off as its not meant too. |
09-26-2010, 09:54 PM | #16 | |
Gettin’ back on the horse Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hoonsville
Posts: 6,671
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I would love to see this as well, but life gets in the way and most of the time Patrick or myself are just to tired at the end of the day to post scores. But like I said if your willing to take over entering the scores and posting them that would be awesome. The master sheet is actually a great idea and I think one that will be used so no one can complain, creating a little less headache. | |
09-26-2010, 10:10 PM | #17 | |
RCC Addict Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Crawlerado
Posts: 1,411
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Hell, I have an old laptop I could donate so that keeping track of scores and series points is easier. | |
09-26-2010, 10:28 PM | #18 | |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Norco Ca.
Posts: 616
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Anything else you guys need help with? | |
09-26-2010, 10:33 PM | #19 |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Arvada
Posts: 783
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Patrick, you can confirm this.... I've talked to him and I'm planning on being an onsite score keeper. I'll have a computer onsite and will enter scores as we compete. I will also post scores that night on this site if he wants me too. I also have my laptop that I can just bring if needed if i'm going to post up online for them as well. I agree with Hoppa, I like it when the scores are posted no later than the following day. I do that with my comps and will be happy to do it with these also. More often than not i'll have them up same day, especially if i'm entering them onsite at the comps....all I have to do is transfer to here at home. Having people sign off on their scoresheets is a great idea. That way no confusion, and I'd be happy to keep all the seasons scoresheets in a folder incase anyone has an issue or question. |
09-27-2010, 12:41 AM | #20 | |
Keep Crawling in Crawling Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Commerce City
Posts: 797
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The responsibility of club lyes within the club and not a couple of individuals. This is not a two person club this is our club and all that are in the club should be involved. Scoring, judging, setting up courses, setting up venues, etc... If you are part of something you will take ownership, if you just show up then you tend to not take any stake in it. | |
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