* Official Rules for 2009 Scale Nationals *

[slobin3d]

Originally Posted by jason

Again?



Shhh...you're going to blow my cover.



You really have no idea what you are talking about do you?



Really there is no point at all in rasing hell? Excesivefire gets it.



So you think everyone should just go up there and half ass everything? It's a competition, you are there to compete, you owe it to yourself, the other competitors, and the course builders to do the best you can.

Anyone that knows me knows that I could give 2 shits about winning, these are toy trucks for gods sake. Does that mean I am not going to give 110% and not show up with the best equipment I can, no.

if anyone can find a flaw in the rules and use it it would be you. You went this route and made a very public point, taken, he is, in my view approaching the rules as someone who isn't heavily involved with rules making. He is honestly trying to help up improve the event, and he has, but I personally think if he or anyone else notice an obvious flaw in the rules they should bring it up in a PM and save the hassle of making a public display. Granted not everyone is going to be so gracious but it is appreciated.

[XSRCdesign]

Originally Posted by jason

Shhh...you're going to blow my cover.

Originally Posted by slobin3d

if anyone can find a flaw in the rules and use it it would be you. You went this route and made a very public point, taken, he is, in my view approaching the rules as someone who isn't heavily involved with rules making. He is honestly trying to help up improve the event, and he has, but I personally think if he or anyone else notice an obvious flaw in the rules they should bring it up in a PM and save the hassle of making a public display. Granted not everyone is going to be so gracious but it is appreciated.

Jason is an ass because he cares


Crap i did it again didn't I?

[badger]

Originally Posted by slobin3d

You went this route and made a very public point, taken, he is, in my view approaching the rules as someone who isn't heavily involved with rules making.

Oh no you di'int!

Originally Posted by slobin3d

He is honestly trying to help up improve the event, and he has, but I personally think if he or anyone else notice an obvious flaw in the rules they should bring it up in a PM and save the hassle of making a public display. Granted not everyone is going to be so gracious but it is appreciated.

This is what I find funny. I'm assuming by "he" you are referring to Jason? Why would Jason or I or anyone else for that matter think there was a flaw in the MSD event rules because they didn't specify anything about MOA axles? How are we to know that you guys really don't know what your doing and simply just forgot to exclude MOA axles from the rules only to change the rules several times without letting the competitors know.

If this were another site, Ben would probably have moderator privileges over this forum and he would have just deleted anything negative about him or MSD. We don't play those games here, man up and deal with the issue at hand.

[toyofast]

Originally Posted by jason

Again?

Oh sorry... your turn, let me get that... "tug".

[War Pig]

Alright, now I can sit down and relax a little. I've been thinking about this all day, and I have a few thoughts.

Yes Jason, I was part of the commitee that helped Ben with the scale rules. I've been involved with the scale class at ORCRC for several years, and I believe that I have good insights on what a scale class should be. In fact I took over the scale class for 2009 with help from another club member, and ORCRC implemented the Montana rules at the beginning of this year to see how they played out in the "real word". We wanted a set of simple, straight forward rules that we thought would be easy to follow without being overbearing. These were to be simple guidelines that would allow people to be creative and build great trucks. Unfortunately this hasn't worked out quite as planned. There are so many different definitions of scale that you'd need a 50 page book to cover all the rules.
From day one of the 2009 season, issues have come up about these rules. I've called Ben weekly to discuss problems that have come up in our club. He has had to modify these rules many times hoping to make them clearer and to close some of the loopholes that existed. You guys are saying that they've been changed 9 times but that isn't accurate.

It was modified so that :

1. people couldn't run the same truck in both 1.9 and 2.2 with different tires.
2. Ben added that you could flat fender a body and not just trim the wheelwells.
3. Modified the wording of where the battery can go.
4. Changed scale accessories so you don't get so many points for them.
5. Tailgate and door removal rule modifications.
6. No MOA.
7. Spelling correction.

These changes have been blown way out of proportion. These rule modifications are nowhere near as severe as they've been portrayed, they just correct problems that we encountered in our club that I thought we should iron out before May.
The whole MOA thing came from me overhearing someone talking about building a comp scaler with Berg axles. I told him that Berg, Hot Racing, and Clod axles weren't allowed in the scale class, and they said that there was nothing in the new rules that prohibit MOA axles on scalers. I called Ben that night and he seemed bewildered that anyone would build a scaler without drivelines. He said it was "rediculous" and that MOA wasn't scale in any way, shape, or form and he was amazed that anyone would think that MOA was OK in scale. Shortly after that I believe Ben added the "No MOA" rule. I'll admit that it could have been handled better and that there should have been a discussion, but this whole scale rules thing is an ongoing process.

It's pretty obvious that we are going to need a book of rules to keep everyone on the straight and narrow. Most that I talk to say "we don't need more scale rules, scale is supposed to be fun". Obviously there are too many ultra competitive people for that to be true. There will always be a few people that pick the rules apart and look for any kind af loophole to give themselves an advantage over others. Don't get me wrong, this isn't meant to be a knock on anyone, it's just that some people have more of a competitive nature than others. It's human nature to want to be better in any way than the people you are competing against. Sometimes this can be detrimental to a sport or hobby, and sometimes it helps you get a set of guidelines in place.

Obviously we have a ways to go before we have a set of scale rules that maintain the integrity of scale, but still allow people to be creative.

That's all I have for now. I'm sure I'll think of something else later. Tim.

[toyofast]

Tim, well said.

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by HotRodJosh

And therein lies the problem......spending $800+ on a rig, just to compete in one event, in hopes of winning what, a few prizes and a $5.00 trophy? Sounds like a blast.......
Some people are into this stuff for all the wrong reasons....reminds me of car shows, with the guys who spend 10's of thousands of dollars on their car and get pissed they didn't win a $5.00 trophy.

Look around the site, there many competitors building new rigs for this event, many of us build 2 for last years event.

Originally Posted by HotRodJosh

Prove a point.....it doesn't take alot of $$$, just TALENT. Some people try to make up for talent with $$$.....
Not saying he's not talented, but he comes off as someone with more $$$ than sense.
I see his point on the rule change....but the rules have changed and there's no use BITCHING about it till the cows come home......
I had planned on going, unfortunately "other" things have come up and I don't think I'm gonna make it. It's also guys like Jason that turn me (and others) off to these events....way too serious...sure it's a "competition", but get a grip, not every "comp" has to be taken like it's "gotta be won" at all costs....leave that MENTALITY for the "hardcore" comps, not scale.

I SOOOOO was ready for the concourse too.....for way under $800..........

Jason knows a few things about changing rules and putting on events.
Why can't people be hardcore about scale comps? I spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours last year for the sole purpose of winning the concourse award. Did I do it for the set of wheels I won? No, I did it for the piece of wood hanging on my wall. Just because you don't mind playing second fiddle doesn't mean someone else is wrong for wanting to be first.

Woulda coulda shoulda, if yer not gonna be there don't brag about your concours winning sub $800 rig. Pics or yer lying.

Originally Posted by War Pig

The whole MOA thing came from me overhearing someone talking about building a comp scaler with Berg axles. I told him that Berg, Hot Racing, and Clod axles weren't allowed in the scale class, and they said that there was nothing in the new rules that prohibit MOA axles on scalers. I called Ben that night and he seemed bewildered that anyone would build a scaler without drivelines. He said it was "rediculous" and that MOA wasn't scale in any way, shape, or form and he was amazed that anyone would think that MOA was OK in scale. Shortly after that I believe Ben added the "No MOA" rule. I'll admit that it could have been handled better and that there should have been a discussion, but this whole scale rules thing is an ongoing process.

I respectfully disagree with you guys, a frame rail chassis, lexan body, and driveshafts do not a scale rig make.

[badger]

Ben told me that he was not going to be posting in this thread anymore and that War Pig's post should have been the end of this thread.

I cleaned up the useless banter (including from me) and am locking this thread.