|
| LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
11-14-2005, 11:07 AM | #1 |
R.I.P. Chip Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The Crawler State
Posts: 13,938
| Competition Legality Issues
Back in the day when we all would only have 5 or 6 people showing up to events we never ran into any problems, however now with the huge growth our hobby has encountered we are now finding it harder and harder to find places that will allow us to get together and do what we love to do. Here in Colorado we have lost 2 of our best crawling spots. One of them we cannot go back to at all, the other we can use, just not for anything that has been "organised" or for any "competition" purpose. The spot we were going to have our competition at yesterday was a spot we go to all the time and have held many competitions at, however this time we had so many vehicles parked out in the parking area it drew attention to us and the ranger came looking for us. He basically told us that it was illegal to have any for of "competition" on the open space, he told us that the chalk we use to mark the courses is considered graffiti, and he told us that we could not get a group of more than 25 people together without a permit. So yesterday he shut down our comp, and made us clean up the chalk, but told us since we only had 23 people that we could stay and crawl, but we couldn;t use cones, chalk, or even have the clipboard or timer out. I argued with him about all the people that use this area for rockclimbing and put chalk all over the rocks as well, and it was pointless. Facing things like this I think it will become harder and harder to hold these big comps that we are now seeing. The main reason being because I know most places at least require a permit for any gathering of 25 or more people on public land. Yes we still have other spots here in Colorado to crawl, but is it even woth setting up comps in places like Palmer Park, without first looking into the legal issues of doing so? I just don't want to end up again like we did yesterday and have people drive from all over the state to come to an event just to be shut down before we even run the first course. This problem isn't just for the people of Colorado, I am sure you will all start to see this nationwide as your competitions grow larger and larger. Once you get a group big enough it attracts peoples attention. Two others I can think of off the top of my head are the UTRCRC comp in Moab, I know in Moab the same thing applies, if you have a group of people together over a certian number you need a permit. I really doubt you guys got one, but how bad would it have sucked to have people from all over the country in attendance and then some asshole ranger decides to shut you down. Same thing goes with the Green River comp, how would you all have liked to be sent home without being able to crawl? This thread is not going to turn into a bash fest on Rangers, as they are only doing the job they are paid to do. I would like for people to help come up with ideas on how we can keep holding the comps we love to have. Do not reply to this thread with junk, it will be erased. |
Sponsored Links | |
11-14-2005, 11:14 AM | #2 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,027
|
Palmer Park is a good place. Maybe even perfect. Palmer Park is just that: A Park. It has baseball fields and football fields, volleyball nets and Star Wars light saber arenas. You can bring as many people to play baseball as you want on the fields and same goes for bringing in crawling to the rocks. Only thing I need to check on is the legality of what type of motorized vehicle is allowed on those rocks. I can check into it more this week. If we need a permit, it will be easily obtained. I'll let you know soon. Last edited by jason; 11-14-2005 at 11:17 AM. |
11-14-2005, 11:20 AM | #3 |
2006 2.2 National Champ Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Big Bear Lake
Posts: 8,328
|
One thing I was wondering about is the whole "competition" thing. Yesterday we had started our "competition", but there were no prizes to be won. So is it still considered a "competition"? How hard is it to get permits, how far in advance do we need to ask? If we have a permit, how many are allowed to attend? What about using small rocks to mark where a marker sits instead of circling it in chalk? It would be a PITA, but it may come to that. Although they'll probably tell us we can't move any rocks. |
11-14-2005, 11:20 AM | #4 |
R.I.P. Chip Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The Crawler State
Posts: 13,938
|
Yea I understand Palmer park is a park where people can gather. However that is what the boulder open space is, and that is also what red rocks is as well. I am sure that even though it is a public park I'll bet depending on group size we may have to get a permit. Then are we allowed to be on the rocks? Remember Red Rocks, they told us people weren't even allowed to walk on the rocks. Do they care if we hold a competition? Do they care if we put some chalk on the rocks? All of these are issues that need to be delt with. |
11-14-2005, 11:30 AM | #5 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,027
| Quote:
Address: 1401 Recreation Way Colorado Springs, CO 80905-1075 Phone: (719) 385-6540 Fax: (719) 385-6599 Contact: Kurt Schroeder Email: KSchroeder@SpringsGov.com Hours: 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., Monday - Friday He is the park manager for all parks in colorado springs. I will talk specifics with him when he returns the call. | |
11-14-2005, 11:45 AM | #6 |
Newbie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Chraolotte
Posts: 5
|
Is anyones property centrally located? WOuld it be out of the question to get 15-20 folks to come together with an agreed upon amount of cash and "create" a rc crawling park on someones property? You could fine tune it to your liking, add some hero sections, some easier sections for newbies, etc.. Turn it into a club thing and pay for the upkeep with membership dues etc.. and add on to it at any time. This is something that would definitley take time, effort and money however it would be worth it in the long run. As time goes on, maybe add a pavillion over some sections so you can run in inclement weather. Not from the Area, just some thoughts.
|
11-14-2005, 11:50 AM | #7 |
TEAM RCC Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: THE ALIEN WORKSHOP
Posts: 770
| I think that private land could be a option. One of of my friends lives on a 100+ acere ranch. We ride dirtbikes and wheel our full size rigs there. We have acsess to rock that could be used to build a course. He has yet to build a R/C crawler but, after taking him to the comp this weekend is very intersted. The only negative is that it in Kiowa. This could be one solution to the problem. |
11-14-2005, 11:54 AM | #8 | |
R.I.P. Chip Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The Crawler State
Posts: 13,938
| Quote:
| |
11-14-2005, 11:58 AM | #9 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,027
| Quote:
PS. I'm still going to the moon and building a new Neverland Ranch. | |
11-14-2005, 12:06 PM | #10 |
Rock Crawler Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North GA
Posts: 824
|
We were also told we would need to obtain a permit if our group got any larger the last time we were at Buford Dam. :neutral: Although...we were also too close to the dam itself...the ranger said we were setting off the motion sensors. JIA driving his nitro boat inside the "no occupancy" zone didn't help any either. -Destroyer |
11-14-2005, 12:10 PM | #11 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,027
| Quote:
It does seem that almost every rule is in place to protect the safety of park guests. Mostly to insure that the park/city is not sued if something happens. Next, they try and maintain the natural beauty of the surrounding, etc. If you can abide by these rules, you can usually have any type of event. This is the info I am trying to obtain from the Park Manager of Colorado Springs, which will likely apply to the entire state and perhaps, other states as well. | |
11-14-2005, 12:31 PM | #12 | |
Dirt Addict Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stumblin' thru the parking lot of an invisible 7-Eleven
Posts: 1,053
| Quote:
Our last Phoenix comp met with a little of what you describe. We had been holding comps in the city mountain park for about a year in several locations. One ranger knew us there and knew what we were doing. He was cool with it. However, last month his boss shut us down, citing the need to stay on trails. After a little discussion between him, Kevin and myself he told us a place we could use (just a few feet off a trail) that was more out of the public eye. He didn't want the public seeing us crawling/walking on rocks and think the everyone could wander all over the terrain in the park. As Jason mentioned, as we get more and more people doing this, this issue will rise. Hopefully, with a little discussion with the rangers everyone can come to some agreement to allow us access to areas for comps. Outside the southwestern states there are lots of private 1:1 parks popping up simply because of the lack of accessible land for wheeling. Fortunately, scale crawling needs much smaller spaces, but we may find the need to find private areas at some point or deal with the permit/insurance/etc. issues. Jay | |
11-14-2005, 12:33 PM | #13 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hiding from Goodall
Posts: 2,518
|
I think permits are going to become a must for every event but we might also need to look at altering the gates. They are perfectly harmless as they are right now but as we found out if a person needs a reason......... I am thinking along the lines of just using tennis balls so that nothing is left behind when we leave other than tire tracks. |
11-14-2005, 12:35 PM | #14 | |
Dirt Addict Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stumblin' thru the parking lot of an invisible 7-Eleven
Posts: 1,053
| Quote:
Jay | |
11-14-2005, 12:37 PM | #15 | |
Dirt Addict Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stumblin' thru the parking lot of an invisible 7-Eleven
Posts: 1,053
| Quote:
Funny though....doesn't chalk simply wash away? Jay | |
11-14-2005, 12:42 PM | #16 | |
R.I.P. Chip Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The Crawler State
Posts: 13,938
| Quote:
He said that upset him too, but that he couldn;t do anything about it. I don't see why not, he made us stop using chalk, why not make them do the same? | |
11-14-2005, 12:44 PM | #17 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,027
| Quote:
| |
11-14-2005, 12:46 PM | #18 |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,027
|
The use of chalk (calcium carbonate) in conjunction with technical climbing and bouldering is prohibited. A chalk substitute that does not discolor the rock may be used.
|
11-14-2005, 12:55 PM | #19 | |
R.I.P. Chip Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The Crawler State
Posts: 13,938
| Quote:
| |
11-14-2005, 01:00 PM | #20 | |
I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,027
| Quote:
For Bouldering and climbing 1. Refrain from placing additional permanent protection (pitons, expansion bolts, etc.) in the rock unless absolutely necessary for safety reasons. 2. The use of chalk (calcium carbonate) in conjunction with technical climbing and bouldering is prohibited. A chalk substitute that does not discolor the rock may be used. 3. Climbing near raptor nesting sties is prohibited. Seasonal clusters of routs near nesting sties will be posted at the trailhead leading to the climb. 4. Permanent slings may be left only at the belay points where necessary for safety reasons. Any webbing left on the rock surface must match the color of the rock. | |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
| |