Competition Rules
 

I have had a ton of people ask me about the rules for scoring a comp. I never know what to tell them, because everyone uses a different set.

I think that now while our sport is in it's infancy we need to establish a set of rules that can be used internationally. This will make things very easy for newcomers to hold events of their own, and will make it easy for those that travel to already know the rules when they show up on someone elses playground.

Right now I know people have scoring rules in effect, but I haven't seen anything that limits the vehicles. I think we need to set a max wheelbase, and max tire size, and max width just to keep the whole scale thing into the hobby.

I know the Aussie's have a set of rules they use, the Oregon guys have a set they use, the Utah guys have a set and the Colorado guys have a set. Let's all discuss these sets and merge them into one that can be accepted by all.

So for those that have copies of your rules, post them. For those with other ideas post them.

Keep in mind, things need to be easy for people to score.

I'd say max wheelbase at 17-18""
Max tire size measured horizonally across the tire at what ever a kong measures???
Max width whatever an x-factor axle with kongs is???

This way you could just build a box out of 2X4's the right length and width, and as long as the car fits inside it, it's good to run.

I'd love to take everyones ideas, vote on what everyone likes best and come up with one master set of rules to be used world wide. Please post a link to this thread on every crawler forum you know of and send people here to talk back and forth.

These are just my ideas, Discuss...

Re: Competition Rules
 

I say Griz (The Scoring Nazi) should write the first draft :wink:

Re: Competition Rules
 

I would like to see the same, does everbody agree that a 2.2 wheel can survive?? I see it as an entry level with a width and wheel base restriction of some sort.
Then local clubs can spure that into a beginner if they choose and keep local. The idea is well accepted so far with the newb's that want to try this crazy thing out because of cost, wich scares most.
I was drivin from RC racing( touring/offroad) because of cost. There is no other way to compete but to go all out or stay home. The rccrawling compitions would be worth going all out for me, but not everybody.
It will help the sport grow and keep the cost to what you as a person can afford and still be competive in the class you can afford.

As far as the comps are now I say keep UNLIMITED like it says. As long as the truck can fit gates and is land based excluding hoover crafts.

This way it could spawn into the most amazing things it can be.
I am new to this board, but not new to the 1:1 crawling. Just didn't have the 6 figures it takes to win on that level and luv crawlin for the compition. It's relaxing for me. :lol: :twisted:

As far as rules, I have seen only what was posted by the Utah crew.
I would have to go back and reread for any input, and I did like what I saw.
I am waiting to talk to Toyo in person about rules too, I would like to see Wa and OR at least have the same rules. That way we can compete with each other on the same rule platform for those who will travel to comps in both states.

Dude

Re: Competition Rules
 

Since I plan on going to several out of state comps over the next year it would be nice for me personally to have a uniform set of rules.

I like the simplicity of the Colorado/Utah rules. It’s easy on the scorekeeper to use single digit point values instead multiples of 5 or 10.

High score wins VS Low score wins ........who cares

The main issue have with most rules is the there is no MAXIMUM penalty points cap.

I feel that the penalty for gate-by pass and the max points allowed should be the same.

This would accomplish several things

1)
Keep things moving during a comp

2)
Avoid embarrassing a competitor (I wanted to crawl under a rock after being panelized 20+ points in Colorado on the first section. I am a big boy and bounced back. Others might not be as determined) I see a newbie showing up at a comp, getting hit with a big score, going home, and never coming back.

3)
Avoid the issue those who would a bypass a gate after seeing other competitors fail. In a recent competition around here some drivers thought it to be better strategy to skip gates, and avoid penalty points. After all the drivers ahead of them could not complete a section, they elected to bypass to avoid rollover, backup and reposition penalty points in addition to a gate bypass. (This did not happen at Dirk’s because he did a careful job of designing the course so all sections were at least possible. That’s not always possible for all locations)

Dude: I agree with you about a 2.2 class, However I think it is a little early
to dividing the field. When we have 8-10 drivers showing up to some events.

Re: Competition Rules
 

I to think the 2.2 and "unlimmited" class shouldn't be seperate, it might seem that the 2.2 rigs are less capable then bigger ones because of there size but with a little more time fine tweaking I can see them keeping up, just give me another 6 mounths or so, you'll see :D

Re: Competition Rules
 

That would make it easyer, the box idea would be easy too.

I guess when you think about it, your probably right. I mean, I see pics were some big trucks go, and it would be easyer with a little truck like the TJ-10 I have. Then sometimes no way, that would make it interesting too is to see how far the little trucks go.

If this rule thing get's more or less agreed upon before 10/16 it would make for a quik intro to this for me and then sooner to the fun, and thats what it is about.

I have a few guy's here in Wa. to help get this off the ground here. I know RSI will be making noise at a comp. Nitro vs Electric. Might make for a good time comp theme somtime here. :twisted:

Re: Competition Rules
 

Before righting the rules, it may be best to first define what were are trying to attemp.

For example, when building a crawler, we design with some basic concepts in mind, i.e. low gc, etc.

- I think the rules should not restrict in any way vehicle design. This is to promote the creativity and advancement of vehicle design.

- We must focus on what rewards skillful driving, and what penalizes unskillful driving.

- I agree we must consider new drivers to keep them in the sport.

- I also think the rules should focus on promoting driving as much as possible, and not using the rules to get out of a situation. Basically, discouraging bypassing, rollovers, re-positioning, etc.


i think vehicle breakage is an important issue. No one want to drive 12 hours, have their vehicle break, and then be way behind. I think if the vehicle can be repaired within the time limits of the comp, the person should be allowed to continue where they broke with no or little penalty points.

i also agree with fishmaxx, there should be a maxx point value for a gate, even if you accrued 1000 points attempting the gate, if you bypass you only get a bypass score.

here are my rules, but they will get some revisions. they are based on UROC rules and the utah rules.

ARC
Arizona Rock Crawlers

Official Rules
August 3rd, 2004


Introduction:
The courses will be set up so beginners and advanced drivers will enjoy the event. The courses will start out easy and increase in difficulty throughout the event. As much as possible, multiple gates will be available to navigate through a section, allowing all level of driver to compete and have fun.

The competitors score will be the sum of all points issued minus the sum of all bonus points earned throughout the entire event. Lowest total score wins. There are no limits on vehicle design or motive of power. No limits on wheelbase, vehicle track width or height. No limits on tire type or size at this stage. Note that course will be designed with a 1/10, 1/8 scale RC truck in mind.

Starting Position:
Position in the starting lineup for each event is chosen randomly. All subsequent sections the first to start will be the one with the lowest score in the previous section and the second to start will be the next lowest and so on.

Reposition:
+2 Repositioning your vehicle incurs 2 penalty points. Drivers should attempt to get out of any situation their trucks have gotten into.

Gate By-Pass:
+5 You may choose to by-pass any gate at any time during your run. However, you must attempt a gate and receive at least 1 penalty point before you choose this option. The maximum amount of penalty points a driver can receive on any gate is 5.

Reverse:
0 There are no penalties for reverse, I encourage drivers to analyze obstacles and set up along the best line.

Gate Marker:
+1 points for a gate marker offense. This includes any contact with the gate marker, or driving over the gate marker (straddling). A straddle is defined as having the vehicle’s tire touch the ground, rock, or tree outside of the gate.

Rollover:
+1 Any rollover incurs penalty points, whether the vehicle lands on it’s wheels or not. This is to encourage driving the obstacle carefully. The truck can be repositioned at the point of the rollover or anywhere behind that point.

Time Violation:
There is a three minute time limit for each gate. At 3 minutes you will be assessed 1 penalty point and you will receive 1 additional point for each minute beyond 3 minutes. At 5 minutes, the driver will be assigned a total of 6 penalty points total for that gate and allowed to continue past the gate.

DNF (Did Not Finish):
At anytime during a section you may elect to withdraw from that section. At that time you will receive a score equal to the highest individual score received by all the drivers on that section plus 1 additional penalty point.

Vehicle Breakage:
?????????????????????????????????

Bonus Gates:
Some obstacles will feature Bonus Gates that designate more difficult routes through an obstacle. The gates will be designated by different colored markers or chalk. Bonus Points will be issued for each bonus gate a driver completes.

Re: Competition Rules
 

Well, Kevin beat me to it last night :lol: Here are my thoughts on rules, I used the ProRock rules as kind of a guideline as well as the rules currently used in Colorado and by the UTRCRC. Thoughts :?:

Event Scoring & Rules
Overview
Before each event begins, there will be a drivers meeting where officials will draw numbers for the starting line up, give you the weekends itinerary and go over any questions you may have.
Courses
A course can be comprised of multiple stages or a single stage per course. In each stage, competitors negotiate their vehicle through beginning, intermediate and ending gates within a specified time limit. Beginning gates are recognized as A, intermediate gates B, C, D and so on with Z gate being the “finish line” for each stage. The vehicle must clear Z gate, to complete the stage, within the time limit. Competitors are allowed a specific amount of time to walk and assess each stage before their time for the stage actually starts.
Scoring
Least number of points wins. Competitors start each stage with a determined number of points, or zero points, each. Penalties are added to the competitors score and earned points are deducted from the competitors score.

Penalties
1 pts = Reversing course more than the vehicle’s wheelbase.
1 pts = Reposition
1 pts/second = Touching
1 pts = Rollover
1 pts = Gate Marker
10 pts = Gate Bypass
1 pts = Exceeding the time limit
*5 pts = Using rear steering on any course.



Earned Points
*2 pts = Clearing an intermediate or optional gate.
*Note: Option gates can be worth more than 2 pts.
Credits are awarded only after the stage has been completed and a competitors final score for a stage can not be less than zero.

* Marked penalties/earned points can be used or omitted from individual events as long as an announcement is given at the drivers meeting prior to the event.

Penalty Definitions:
Reversing Course: If a vehicle reverses course more than the length of the wheelbase a penalty is incurred. Once a reverse penalty has been assessed, no further reverse penalty can be assessed until the vehicle makes forward progress. Once forward progress is made after a reverse, a reverse penalty can be assessed if the vehicle fails to make forward progress back to the point where the initial reverse occurred. (i.e.: if a vehicle reverses half the wheelbase (no penalty), then makes any forward progress, then reverses more than half the wheelbase; a reverse penalty can be assessed).
Reverse penalties are assigned at the Marshal’s discretion if the actions performed by the vehicle/driver are not clearly defined by the rule.
If a vehicle becomes turned around; forward progress can be made by driving the vehicle in reverse, provided it is traversing the course in the intended direction.

Reposition: If a vehicle is unable to progress it may be repositioned on the course provided that the vehicle is not placed any closer to or breaking the plane of a gate (crossing the line). The driver may reposition the vehicle but any discrepancies will be resolved by the marshal repositioning the vehicle.

Touching: Pushing on, lifting on, or touching a vehicle to aid forward or reverse progress. A penalty will be incurred for every second the touch occurs. If the vehicle is stationary and not under power when the vehicle is touched; no penalty is assessed as long as the vehicles position is not altered.
If a touch occurs as any part of the vehicle breaks the plane of a gate or has broken the plane of the gate, the gate will be considered a bypassed gate and the appropriate penalty will be incurred.

Rollover: If a vehicle tips over and ends up in a position such that it cannot continue the course a rollover penalty will be incurred.
The vehicle must be repositioned within ½ the vehicles wheelbase of where it ends up or the closest point within the course boundary. No reposition penalty will be incurred.

Gate Marker: Touching a gate marker with any part of the vehicle or passing one tire by a marker outside the intended gate results in a penalty.
A penalty is incurred every time a gate marker, or the area where a gate marker was intended to be, is touched until that gate is cleared. If a gate marker has moved, it is up to the marshal’s discretion to determine where the intended position is. (i.e.: if the front tire of a vehicle touches a marker and moves the marker, then the rear tire passes very near to the intended gate marker position. The marshal shall determine if a penalty should be incurred by the rear tire).

Gate Bypass: A penalty is incurred if competitor chooses to reposition the vehicle past a gate that has not been cleared.
At least one penalty point must be incurred while attempting to clear the gate before the gate bypass will be allowed.
No earned points will be given for a bypassed gate.
A vehicle may travel back through, or continue on through, any bypassed gate without losing credit for that gate and cannot be given any marker penalties for the bypassed gate.

*Rear Steer:
Rear steering is defined as changing the alignment of the rear wheels in relation to the axle, whether intentional or accidental, such that the rear tires axis of rotation is no longer inline with the axle housing. The first time rear steering is used on a course, the competitor will be penalized 5 points. Once a competitor has been penalized for use of rear steer, the competitor can use the rear steer without additional penalties for the duration of that course. Vehicles equipped with rear steering can avoid incurring the penalty points by completing a course without using the rear steering and if the marshal determines that no intentional or accidental rear steering occurred during the duration of the course.

Gates/Clearing Gates:
A “gate” is a set of 2 markers and the invisible line between them.
All gates must be cleared to earn credit.
Clearing a gate is defined as three tires passing over the invisible line between two gate markers. Two tires on the same axle must be completely past the line while the third tire must be through far enough for the marshal to determine that the point where the axle and wheel meet has past the line as well. At least three tires completely past the line constitutes a cleared gate, anything less will be left to the marshal’s discretion provided they follow the previous criteria.
Vehicles may clear gates in forward or reverse as long as the vehicle is traveling in the intended course direction.
A gate can not be cleared by the vehicle rolling, tumbling, or sliding through the gate. The marshal must be able to determine that the gate was cleared before the vehicle began rolling, tumbling, or sliding.
Gates must be run in order and cleared in the intended direction of travel.
A vehicle may travel back through, or continue on through, any cleared gate without losing credit for that gate and cannot be given any marker penalties for the cleared gate.

Breakdowns / Running Order:
If a vehicle breaks down or a battery needs to be changed, the stage time will stop and the competitor will be given 1minute to repair the vehicle or replace the battery. After the 1-minute repair time limit has expired the stage time will resume. If the repair will exceed the remaining stage time limit the competitor may ask to fall out of order.
Vehicles falling out of order may resume the stage but must restart from the last cleared gate. Any penalties incurred during the partially completed stage will be retained on the competitors score. When the competitor is ready to resume the stage, the marshal and the next competitor on stage must both agree to let the competitor resume.
At their discretion, event marshals can change the running order due to breakdowns or delays.

Sportsmanship:
Everyone is expected to conduct themselves in a proper manner towards spectators, event officials, other competitors and anyone else associated with the events. Penalties for poor conduct can be assessed by stage officials and event Marshals ranging from -5pts to total disqualification.

Tie-Breaker:
Least points earned at last Stage of the event, 2nd to last Stage of the event, etc

Protests:
Protests will be heard and addressed up until 30 minutes after the last stage of each respective class has been closed. All protests must be presented to an event Marshall.

Class Requirements:
Unlimited Class: Intended for vehicles with very few limits on modifications.
Vehicle propulsion must be by 4 tires only.
Vehicle must have a body and/or tubular chassis resembling a buggy or body.

Re: Competition Rules
 

This is a first draft and I still have other ideas I would like to include. I like the idea of a point cap and I think the bypass penalty should be more than the point cap.
Should the point cap be for an entire stage (for example, a stage with 10 gates) or should it be for each gate?
I want to include 2.2 vehicle restrictions as well. I think that 2.2 should be such that they are kind of an entry level class. Keep it competitive for Tamiya Daggers and RS4MT type vehicles as well as TLT-10's.

When the time comes there should be a class for stock (EMaxx, TXT, etc) vehicles as well. I think.

Re: Competition Rules
 

We really can't do classes at this point. Unless the comp turns out so many trucks that it calls for it. Typicall, at a comp, you have one guy with Kongs, one guy with a 2.2, one guy with X Factor axles, and the rest are Clods and TXT's, etc. Those one off guys will be running in a class and competing against who...himself?

For now....we have to have a large open class in most cases. Correct?

As for rules...yes...keep them simple. I do think that we need to start keeping time, etc.

Re: Competition Rules
 

Agreed on all points. 8) Until people show up with non-unlimited rigs we should keep the one class.

Re: Competition Rules
 

I think the point cap will take care of 90% of the time issue.

Should there be a certian # of gates per section?

I think bypass points and Max points per section should be the same.

Other wise whats stopping me hit max points on purpose to avoid the higher bypass penelty.

DNF's should be penelized only for gates remaining

More than 2 bypasses in a section = 1 additional point per gate

Re: Competition Rules
 

I agree about the time issue as well. I think it should be open as to how many gates someone wants to have. I depends on the area, maybe 10 gates would not allow the course to flow as well as 7.

Who cares? Someone who thinks like that isnt trying to win and they wont win with that strategy anyway. :lol: Making the bypass penalty higher gives people a reason to keep trying until they point-out, and rewards the people who are trying to drive the course.

Yea, I forgot to put in the DNF stuff, I'll edit it in.

I am not trying to say my rules are right guys, just stirring up ideas and trying give something to argue about. :D As did KevinLongIsland. Thanks Kevin.

Re: Competition Rules
 

I think you should limit the vehicles. It will still leave it open to be creative, it will just make you think harder to come up with something better within the rules. Its whats going to put more interest into this part of the hobby. It will lead to a good challenge without the vehicles going to a crazy stage. I mean soon you will see people putting ATV tires on these things :roll:

Re: Competition Rules
 

A good course design could take care of that.
A huge crawler with big ATV tires would have hit to many gates at Dirks to WIN

Re: Competition Rules
 

All my comments will be in red ink...............like the school teacher we all hate.

Grizzly4x4'sEvent Scoring & Rules

Overview
Before each event begins, there will be a drivers meeting where officials will draw numbers for the starting line up, give you the weekends itinerary and go over any questions you may have.
Courses
A course can be comprised of multiple stages or a single stage per course. In each stage, competitors negotiate their vehicle through beginning, intermediate and ending gates within a specified time limit. Beginning gates are recognized as A, intermediate gates B, C, D and so on with Z gate being the “finish line” for each stage. The vehicle must clear Z gate, to complete the stage, within the time limit. Competitors are allowed a specific amount of time to walk and assess each stage before their time for the stage actually starts.
Scoring
Least number of points wins. Competitors start each stage with a determined number of points, or zero points, each. Penalties are added to the competitors score and earned points are deducted from the competitors score.

Penalties
1 pts = Reversing course more than the vehicle’s wheelbase.
1 pts = Reposition
1 pts/second = Touching (Repo and touching should be 2 points)
1 pts = Rollover
1 pts = Gate Marker
10 pts = Gate Bypass Too Much....5 points will keep the action moving
1 pts = Exceeding the time limit Not needed if you use the 5 point rule

5 points Maximum per Gate including a Gate Bypass


*5 pts = Using rear steering on any course. HATE THIS ONE ...........1 point per section maybe


Earned Points
*2 pts = Clearing an intermediate or optional gate.
*Note: Option gates can be worth more than 2 pts. color=red]Plus or Minus[/color]
Credits are awarded only after the stage has been completed and a competitors final score for a stage can not be less than zero.

* Marked penalties/earned points can be used or omitted from individual events as long as an announcement is given at the drivers meeting prior to the event.

Penalty Definitions:
Reversing Course: If a vehicle reverses course more than the length of the wheelbase a penalty is incurred. Once a reverse penalty has been assessed, no further reverse penalty can be assessed until the vehicle makes forward progress. Once forward progress is made after a reverse, a reverse penalty can be assessed if the vehicle fails to make forward progress back to the point where the initial reverse occurred. (i.e.: if a vehicle reverses half the wheelbase (no penalty), then makes any forward progress, then reverses more than half the wheelbase; a reverse penalty can be assessed).
Reverse penalties are assigned at the Marshal’s discretion if the actions performed by the vehicle/driver are not clearly defined by the rule. ( I guess your are refering to "inching" ex: backing up a wheel base length, moving forward an inch, backing up a body length, and so on.)If a vehicle becomes turned around; forward progress can be made by driving the vehicle in reverse, provided it is traversing the course in the intended direction. Marshal's should give warnings if possible, and drivers should be able to ask for help.

Reposition: If a vehicle is unable to progress it may be repositioned on the course provided that the vehicle is not placed any closer to or breaking the plane of a gate (crossing the line). The driver may reposition the vehicle but any discrepancies will be resolved by the marshal repositioning the vehicle.

Touching: Pushing on, lifting on, or touching a vehicle to aid forward or reverse progress. A penalty will be incurred for every second the touch occurs. If the vehicle is stationary and not under power when the vehicle is touched; no penalty is assessed as long as the vehicles position is not altered.
If a touch occurs as any part of the vehicle breaks the plane of a gate or has broken the plane of the gate, the gate will be considered a bypassed gate and the appropriate penalty will be incurred.

Rollover: If a vehicle tips over and ends up in a position such that it cannot continue the course a rollover penalty will be incurred.
The vehicle must be repositioned within ½ the vehicles wheelbase of where it ends up or the closest point within the course boundary. No reposition penalty will be incurred. No reverse points :?: .........Its OK just asking for clarity
Gate Marker: Touching a gate marker with any part of the vehicle or passing one tire by a marker outside the intended gate results in a penalty.
A penalty is incurred every time a gate marker, or the area where a gate marker was intended to be, is touched until that gate is cleared. If a gate marker has moved, it is up to the marshal’s discretion to determine where the intended position is. (i.e.: if the front tire of a vehicle touches a marker and moves the marker, then the rear tire passes very near to the intended gate marker position. The marshal shall determine if a penalty should be incurred by the rear tire).

Gate Bypass: A penalty is incurred if competitor chooses to reposition the vehicle past a gate that has not been cleared.
At least one penalty point must be incurred while attempting to clear the gate before the gate bypass will be allowed.
No earned points will be given for a bypassed gate.
A vehicle may travel back through, or continue on through, any bypassed gate without losing credit for that gate and cannot be given any marker penalties for the bypassed gate.

*Rear Steer:
Rear steering is defined as changing the alignment of the rear wheels in relation to the axle, whether intentional or accidental, such that the rear tires axis of rotation is no longer inline with the axle housing. The first time rear steering is used on a course, the competitor will be penalized 5 points. Once a competitor has been penalized for use of rear steer, the competitor can use the rear steer without additional penalties for the duration of that course. Vehicles equipped with rear steering can avoid incurring the penalty points by completing a course without using the rear steering and if the marshal determines that no intentional or accidental rear steering occurred during the duration of the course.

Gates/Clearing Gates:
A “gate” is a set of 2 markers and the invisible line between them.
All gates must be cleared to earn credit.
Clearing a gate is defined as three tires passing over the invisible line between two gate markers. Two tires on the same axle must be completely past the line while the third tire must be through far enough for the marshal to determine that the point where the axle and wheel meet has past the line as well. At least three tires completely past the line constitutes a cleared gate, anything less will be left to the marshal’s discretion provided they follow the previous criteria. (At Dirk's I thought some gates front & rear tire hit gate marker.......received 2 points, and 2 tires passing through gate " The Stadle" Keivin refered to. Think it would be OK to only require 1 tire pass through a gate ......... however you would receive -3 points in that case)
Vehicles may clear gates in forward or reverse as long as the vehicle is traveling in the intended course direction.
A gate can not be cleared by the vehicle rolling, tumbling, or sliding through the gate. The marshal must be able to determine that the gate was cleared before the vehicle began rolling, tumbling, or sliding.
Gates must be run in order and cleared in the intended direction of travel.
A vehicle may travel back through, or continue on through, any cleared gate without losing credit for that gate and cannot be given any marker penalties for the cleared gate. What do you do if you (marshal) determine someone did tumble though a gate :?: Sliding on your tire should be OK, not on you roof 8O

Breakdowns / Running Order: Driver should call time-out or something to let everyone know he is about to touch his vehicle for repairs, marshall should then "OK" when vehicle is stopped to avoid touching penalty
If a vehicle breaks down or a battery needs to be changed, the stage time will stop and the competitor will be given 1minute to repair the vehicle or replace the battery. After the 1-minute repair time limit has expired the stage time will resume. If the repair will exceed the remaining stage time limit the competitor may ask to fall out of order.
Vehicles falling out of order may resume the stage but must restart from the last cleared gate. Any penalties incurred during the partially completed stage will be retained on the competitors score. When the competitor is ready to resume the stage, the marshal and the next competitor on stage must both agree to let the competitor resume.
At their discretion, event marshals can change the running order due to breakdowns or delays.

Sportsmanship:
Everyone is expected to conduct themselves in a proper manner towards spectators, event officials, other competitors and anyone else associated with the events. Penalties for poor conduct can be assessed by stage officials and event Marshals ranging from -5pts to total disqualification.

Tie-Breaker:
Least points earned at last Stage of the event, 2nd to last Stage of the event, etc

Protests:
Protests will be heard and addressed up until 30 minutes after the last stage of each respective class has been closed. All protests must be presented to an event Marshall.

Class Requirements:
Unlimited Class: Intended for vehicles with very few limits on modifications.
Vehicle propulsion must be by 4 tires only.
Vehicle must have a body and/or tubular chassis resembling a buggy or body.

Re: Competition Rules
 

I like it, hell right now I will try anything just to have a base rule system.

Club rules can try things from said rules, like an R@D rule thing. No protest on what is agreed between states than the rules stick. Easy and fun, what it is all about. 8) 8)

Re: Competition Rules
 

these are calrocs rules minus the rear steer rule which only goes for stock mod class, and untill we get more of a class system going i dont see a point for it...... these are just what i think we should base our rules off of considering we are just scale sized versions of them right???? so i hope all you guys read these and take it into consideration when we make our national set of rules......

my veiws on things.....

spotter strap would be badass (5 lb finshing line or 6 is perfect me and my freinds expeiremented with this

classes- 2.2, stock (which is limited to normal 2w steering), mod (us modded txt'x clods etc. 2.2 and stocks arent aloud), and unlimited (anything can go)

stacking (you can do it in real life why not in ours?) (just like we cant get a rock bigger then say 6-8 inches)

i also agree that we shouldnt limit the modifications people do with their rigs, we should be able to persue even better performance out of our rigs, my new rig that is almost done will be sporting 3 winches ( 1 for normal use pulling outta stuff etc. and 1 for sucking up each axle like my brother does in real life) i am also thinking about this burn thing for i am a shaftie guy so i cant do what the clods do so i am desifering what to do for that........

California Rock-Crawling and Off-road Championship Series

Rule Book 2004




Important notice
Rock Crawling is an inherently dangerous sport. Each competitor assumes that risk when he or she participates in an Event. The risk of serious injury or death cannot be eliminated and, in fact, will always be present at a high level. Competitors are urged to advise their spouses and next of kin, if any, of this fact. By competing, all competitors, both spotter and driver, agree to the following.

In consideration of being permitted to participate in any event sponsored, promoted, or directed by CalROCS, California Rock-crawling and Off-road Championship Series, the competitor for himself/herself, his/her personal representatives, heirs, and next of kin, hereby releases the corporation, and their respective officers, directors, promoters, sponsors, employees, agents and volunteers (“releasees”) of all liability to the competitor, whether caused by negligent act or omission of releasees or otherwise while the undersigned is for any purpose participating in such event. It is fully understood by each of the competitors that there is some inherent risk associated with this event, including damage to vehicles and injury or death to the individual.

In addition, the competitor agrees to indemnify and hold harmless the releasees from any loss, liability, damage, or cost they incur due to such participation by the competitor, whether caused by releasees’ negligence or otherwise, and agrees to assume full responsibility and risk for bodily injury, death, or property damage from releasees’ negligence or otherwise while the competitor is participating in this event.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Each competitor acknowledges and represents the following while competing:

1 - That he or she has read the foregoing release and waiver of liability and indemnity agreement.

2 - That he or she does at all times, while riding in a vehicle participating in an event, wear his or her respective seat and shoulder belts and helmet.

3 - That the owner/driver certifies that he or she has inspected this vehicle and that the same certifies it to be in proper mechanical condition for participation in rockcrawling competition.

4 - That the owner/driver has informed himself/herself about the event, either by prior participation or by investigation into the sport and especially CalROCS events.

5 - That the driver or any other person(s) in a vehicle participating in any CalROCS or NARRCA event, may choose to bypass any obstacle and, therefore, assumes all risk and liability, as indicated above.

Please Be Aware:
Although safety is generally everyone’s concern and certainly the highest priority of CalROCS, the final responsibility rests on the competitors. Competitors can, at any time, choose to bypass any obstacle or area where they feel uncomfortable or unsafe driving.




Points Scoring System

Stopping
One point will be issued after a competitor’s vehicle has stopped making forward progress for four (4) seconds. A team whose vehicle’s tires are rotating but the vehicle is making no progress is considered stopped and will be marked as such. Moving a vehicle intentionally, including sideways, with front or rear “burns” is considered forward progress. Bouncing from right to left “in search of traction”, but not progressing, is not considered forward progress. Once a “stop” call is made, the competing team will receive no further calls until forward or backward progress is made.

Backing
One point is issued for a purposeful reversal/change of direction by a competitor. A purposeful backup is considered when a driver puts the vehicle in reverse and backs, pushes in the clutch and rolls back, etc. A back is not counted when the vehicle is pushed back by the obstacle, unless an advantage is gained during the process. A reverse in an attempt to save a rollover is considered a back and will receive backing points. A backing penalty is also counted if a team uses a “reverse burn”. If a competitor has stopped (after the full four seconds) he receives his points for the stop. If he then chooses to reverse he will receive the point for the reverse. If a competitor reverses prior to the four-second-stop rule, he will receive only one point for the back. Once the competitor has changed direction and is in a reversal, no further stops will counted until forward progress is made.
If a team starts the course in reverse, they will immediately receive one (1) point for backing and everything will be judged as normal. If the team completes the course in reverse (never making a change in direction), the point for reverse will be removed from the score.

Gates
Each obstacle is marked with cones, and other “hazards” like marked bushes and trees, ribbon, banners, flagging, flags, etc. Ten (10) penalty points will be issued for every cone or hazard touched. If the spotter, winch cable, pull strap, vehicle contents, etc. touch any cone or hazard, it will count the same as if the vehicle had touched it. A cone does not have to fall to be counted; it only needs to be touched at any point, including its base. Cones that fall due to exhaust, wind, and unstable rocks will not count as a touched gate unless a vehicle’s tire or axle crosses the original “intended” location of that cone. Once a cone is touched it is considered disqualified from that obstacle for the team who touched it and may not be counted for a second contact, though its original “intended” location remains for consideration of an “Out of Bounds” penalty.

Rock stacking to allow a “bridge” over a cone will not be allowed. This includes building high points on each side of the cone with the intent to put the cone in a valley. While attempting to clear a gate, a vehicle may not “float” a tire or axle over a cone. Any tire or axle crossing the vertical plane of the “intended” location of a cone, even without touching it, will be penalized the same as if it had touched the cone.

Gates are designed to lay out the course; however, a competitor may exit a gate and return through the same gate without points or obstacle disqualification in areas designated and advised by the official. Competitors must stay within the roped-off areas that define the course. Materials used to define a course may not be driven over, driven under, or be touched by the vehicle. Exceptions to this must be approved with the judge prior to starting the obstacle. This is to ensure that the area is cleared of spectators and non-essential people so that safe passage may be made. The judge has the right to disallow any diversion off course.
All gates must be taken in the order intended by the designer, once a gate has been cleared it does not need to be cleared a second time. To ease navigation, all intermediate gates will be marked, in order, from start to finish.
The course is designed to be driven between the cones. If, while attempting a gate, the vehicle is so far off-line that either “driver’s” tire touches, or travels outside of, a right cone, they will be declared “out of bounds” and will receive 40 points for that obstacle. It is the same if either “passenger’s” tire touches or travels outside of a left cone. Backing through a gate would be considered the opposite. Any vehicle bypassing a gate entirely, intentionally or not, will also be declared “out of bounds”.

Bonus Gates
In an effort to reward those who wish to attempt higher difficulty lines, Bonus Gates may be included throughout the course. Bonus gates are optional and will be marked or colored differently than a standard gate. Bonus gates are worth a -10 bonus points and are counted after the rearmost portion of the vehicle clears the imaginary line defining that gate. If bonus gates are hit, they count as any other gate, but bonus credit is still earned if the gate is then cleared. Bonus gate credit will NOT be earned if the entire course is not completed. A team that attempts and fails a bonus gate may choose to return to the original departure point of the normal course to attempt to complete the course within the remaining time. All points accrued during the bonus attempt and return to the normal course will be counted. Additionally, there “MAY” be areas of the bonus gate where no backing or stopping points will be issued. These areas will be called “strategy zones” and they will be discussed at the Event Meeting. These points are not taken off a team’s score until they complete the obstacle, so they are not related to “pointing out”.

Pointed Out/Timed Out
The maximum allowed points for a course are 40. Points accrue and if the total reaches 40, the team is “pointed out”. The team receives 40 points on their score sheet and moves to the next obstacle using the quickest allowable route possible. If the time allowed on an obstacle runs out, the team is “timed out” and moves to the next obstacle as listed above. Any “progress” or “bonus” points earned are NOT counted against the penalty points accrued while the clock is running. They are kept separate and added after the course is completed, timed out, or pointed out.

Progress Points
To reward teams for progress through a course, “progression points” are given for each intermediate gate completed. A -1 progress point is credited for each intermediate gate completed, and is counted after the rearmost portion of the vehicle clears the imaginary line defining that gate. If an intermediate gate is hit, it counts as any other gate, but progress points are still earned if the gate is then cleared. The Start and Finish gates will not be credited as progress gates.
Progression points will be credited once cleared and are the only credit points retained if the course is not completed. These points are not taken off a team’s score until they are done with the obstacle, so they are not related to “pointing out”.

Rock Stacking
Any rock, log, or other item found naturally in the course vicinity may be used to helps a team’s progress through a course. A team may go outside their current course’s boundary to locate rocks and wood, but they may not take any from a different course. To ensure fairness, teams are not allowed to “pre-set” rocks and wood and will be called for sportsmanship and a penalty of 10 points if they are found to be moving anything prior to the start of their time. It is acceptable to “look” for these items, just do not move them unless you are on the clock. Any “outside” help in rock stacking will also be questioned for sportsmanship.
One of the largest risks to spotters is stacking rocks near a moving vehicle. To promote safety, no rocks or wood are allowed to be stacked within 2 feet of a moving tire. If this rule is violated, a penalty of 10 points will be assessed for each occurrence. A common practice of having a spotter stand on a rock during a “burn” to keep the rock in place is also very risky; therefore, this too will carry a penalty of 10 points.
When a team has completed a course, they will be given an optional 3 minutes to “unstack” the course. They may only move rocks that they stacked during their attempt on the course. Any rocks moved must be returned as close as possible to their original location. Any team seen intentionally moving rocks to a more difficult location than their original placement, or destroying/breaking rocks or logs, will be penalized 10 points for unsportsmanlike activity. Furthermore, if a team rolls a rock downhill and cannot move it back uphill, they must leave that rock in place. Rolling it further downhill will bring sportsmanship into question.

Spotter Manipulation
The spotter may not touch the vehicle in an effort to aid movement.
The vehicle must be completely stopped (including tire movement) prior to spotters touching the vehicle or reaching into the passenger compartment.
Teams may attempt to right a vehicle in the event of a tip-over. Vehicles must be in park or gear with emergency brake set, prior to righting. The driver and spotter may try to upright a vehicle without pointing out but outside assistance will result in a point out.
Spotters touching a rolled vehicle while it is moving will NOT receive a warning, they will be assessed a penalty of 10 points.

Spotter Strap
If a team is able to complete a course without using a spotter strap, the team will receive a bonus of 2 points. Straps used by the spotter must be long enough so that the spotter is never closer than 15 feet from vehicle in any direction. Violations of this safe distance carry a penalty of 10 points.

Tools
Vehicles must pass through an obstacle under the power of the vehicle and spotter. Therefore, tools may not be used. Tools are considered as any item used as a means of leverage or bridge building that is brought with the competitor and not found naturally in the area surrounding the obstacle. Tools, when used for repair of the vehicle, are not subject to a penalty. Rocks may not be carried in a vehicle.
Leverage: Leverage points on a vehicle are approved if they are a permanent part of the vehicle. Example: A welded on push-bar would be allowed. A quick-detach push-bar that can be added and removed throughout the event would not.

Winches
Winching is assessed a thirty point (30) point penalty if used, per course. Winching is considered when a team hooks a winch cable/rope to any anchor and begins to load the cable. A cable is considered loaded as soon as the cable has tension on it. As an example only, a cable that is off of the ground but sagging has tension on it. However, CalROCS recognizes that all pulls are not straight and therefore does not consider that a cable must be off the ground to be counted as taught. Each team may winch as many times as needed to complete the obstacle under the original winching penalty of 30 points.
There are occasions where a judge or marshal may allow a cable to be attached to an anchor for safety and no points will be issued as long as the winch is not used to pull the vehicle. This is called a safety cable.
While winching, a winch-line weight bag must be used on any steel cable; teams must provide their own weight bags.

Breakdown Time
Each competitor is allowed forty five (45) minutes of cumulative breakdown time per day of competition. If a breakdown occurs, the team may use the time left on the obstacle to begin repairs unless they have pointed out. However, the team must immediately move the vehicle off the course when they have timed out. Repairs and work done while on the obstacle clock must be performed entirely by the driver and spotter. Outside help coming onto the course will immediately “time out” the team and the vehicle must be moved.
No competitor has to start breakdown time until they are going to miss their next start. Teams may work on their vehicles without being on breakdown time up until three minutes after being called to start their next obstacle. Before that time arrives, the team needs to either have repairs finished or declare the start of breakdown time. After the three-minute start leeway has passed, the judge will not allow breakdown time to begin.
To start breakdown time, the team’s scorecard must be signed by the judge of the course where that team is about to miss their start. The judge will mark the competitor’s scorecard with the time of day and sign it. Once breakdown time has begun, a team has only 45 minutes to complete the repairs and return to the SAME course judge to sign back in. The Judge will then mark down the time, sign it, and mark down the number of the vehicle the competitor is following. If it only takes 25 minutes to do the repairs and you have signed in and out properly, you will retain an additional 20 minutes for possible use later that day. If a team surpasses the allowed 45 minutes of breakdown time even by 1 minute, they will be disqualified for that day and receive forty (50) points for each remaining obstacle.
Teams who move to an obstacle out of order and without a judges signature will be disqualified for that day and receive forty (50) points for each remaining obstacle.

Outside Assistance
Any spectator or team member assisting the spotter or driver while they are on the course could cause the competing team to be penalized or disqualified from that course as well as possibly causing their own expulsion from the event. Sportsmanship is the responsibility of everyone so be sure to warn your friends and teammates of the image they portray. This activity is called cheating and makes everyone look bad.


these are calrocs rules minus the rear steer rule which only goes for stock mod class, and untill we get more of a class system going i dont see a point for it...... these are just what i think we should base our rules off of considering we are just scale sized versions of them right???? so i hope all you guys read these and take it into consideration when we make our national set of rules :)

Re: Competition Rules
 

Just one question, why in the hell would you need a spotter in RC crawling?? You not in a rig. :roll: I will not support that rule no matter what, just what I believe and not for everyone. 8) These Rc's are just that RC's that do what big rig's do not built the same way. :roll:

Re: Competition Rules
 

One thing you have to remember is that if our rigs were 1:1 scale, they would blow away everything else out there. They have a better power to weight ratio, and everything else, so you can't really scale everything down to scale and still have a challenge.

Re: Competition Rules
 

ow yea wut about us few guys that have the skills to drive nitro and dont have reverse? can we just like pull our trucks backward and call that a reverse?

ryan

Re: Competition Rules
 

I’ve seen threads before where the entire list of competition rules was being discussed and the thread always get out of hand. I think a set of standard rules is a good idea and we should attempt to create such a document. We could manage such a task as follows:

1) Gather constituency. First make sure the majority of people we want involved are involved

2) Create Sections:

a. Example: Vehicle Design, Courses/Stages, Etc.

3) Discuss and complete each section one at a time before moving on to another section. We should all do our best to stay on topic and divide sections into sub-sections and create each rule one at a time.


Hopefully this will make this daunting task more manageable.

Re: Competition Rules
 

A little cocky arn't we?

So basicly you could turn your rig around in front of every major obstical then drag it over if you wanted to? 8O

Anywho I completely agree with what Kevin said, but I personaly think any rules we come up with should be easaly adaptable to a certain area and any number/type of trucks and entrants. Isn't trying to come up with a universal set of rules for a sport that varrys so much in every aspect fun? :flipoff:

Re: Competition Rules
 

Give me 2 weeks and I will come down from the mountain and spank your ass all over with an electric, then would you be quit??

Your just like your uncle in all the bad ways, I think he learned, so talk to him. :roll:

Re: Competition Rules
 

my uncle? i think u mean my brother.....

my truck doesnt have reverse and i didnt mean i was gonna do that i was saying just like grab the bumper and pull it straight back? would that be legal for the few of us?

ryan

Re: Competition Rules
 

hey dude go to rcjimsplace.com they are planning on a fun crawl this sunday if i get my truck put together to where it can drive i will be there

ryan

Re: Competition Rules
 

I think that would be a reposition.

Stay on the topic please RSI[/quote]

Re: Competition Rules
 

Okay Okay so it seems like no matter what people are going to be unhappy with the competition rules. For the most part most the new items added to the already "norm" used in the UTRCRC and Colorado comps are just going to make the event way to easy. I understand that there are beginners that will get frustrated and until the classes are divided into a "Pro" class and "Beginner" there will be NO equality and the beginners will continue feeling frustrated. The top drivers at our comps and the comps provided in Colorado by Digler are really becoming easier and easier as our skills increase and the vehicles become more and more honed. What makes the comp really challenging is the points system used, and if we make them to easy then the guys that would be concidered "Pro" are going to walk away with zero points.

I like the UTRCRC/Colorado point system as it sits. Yes it could use some fine tuning. Maybe a max points rule (determined for each course, by the course builder), or somthing, but for the most part the rules are pretty dang fair, while still challenging.

Griz, I like the rear steer penalties and the bonus gates (actually I hate the rear steer penalty because I use it too dang much :lol: ). The bonus gates are a good way of making a course more or less challenging for the advanced and new crawlers. We need to keep in mind however that as we all travel from comp to comp that there are not always alternate routes available, but we can do our best to figure that out per course.

As for trash talking on this thread....keep it to yourself. You want to really show your skills, then come out to one of the Utah or Colorado events and prove yourself out there. The more crawlers the better.

So how do we wrap this all up and determin what scoring system we all want to use? Griz, Dig, Pinchflat, etc....?

8)

Re: Competition Rules
 

I like the UT/ Colorado rule and if they were first and it is easy than I agree. The thing about being to young a sport for different classes is also right. I am for all in one class and agree with Grizz's last post. I know I was pushing for a beginner type thing and I geuss they all can begin like everbody else, just start doing it. Thats what I did in both areas, 1:1 and now RC. I geuss that is fare and still leaves choise.

Doug
WARCRC

Re: Competition Rules
 

How about handicap (points) for 2.2's, TLT's, stock's, etc

Re: Competition Rules
 

Which rules would make it easier :?:

I agree I am just asking for more clarity on those rules

Still hate it :flipoff: ..............after I went out bought 2 servos for my two trucks :cry:

I agree............I thought my stuff was decent until I went to Colorado :!:

Re: Competition Rules
 

Eh 4ws and reverse penalties are lame. It's like being able to run a blown rail in dragracing but makeing you use whitewall tires, just because it makes getting off the line harder. And it just looks so much cooler to crab over junk :flipoff:

Re: Competition Rules
 

How can you penalize for using rear steer if there are no classes with limitations?

Re: Competition Rules
 

I also think there should be no penalty for rear steer.

Reasons:

1. In 1:1 the penalty exists because having rear steer is a major expense.
2. These RCCrawlers don't turn as sharp in scale as 1:1 cars in scale.
3. Some people don't have rear steer setup on a third channel, just y'ed off. They'd end up getting the penalty on every course.


I do think we need a size limitation on the crawlers. Max length and max width. Building a square box and dropping all the cars into it before the event would be the easiest way to make sure everyone is within the limits. I'd suggest max width be x-factor axles with kongs, max length be same rig with 16" wheelbase.

The point of this is that it will keep all the rigs close to the same as far as abilities. Remember when all the colorado guys were running under 15" wheelbases, then tried to compete with the utah guys all around 16". The colorado guys couldn't get up any of the stuff the utah guys walked. At least if we knew the overall size limit we could all build our cars and courses to those specs. Nothing says you couldn't run a 13" wheelbase if you wanted, just not over a certain limit.

I also don't like letting people bypass gates for any reason. The point of these events is to go over the rocks not around them.

There needs to be a max points limit on a course, not just whatever the highest guy got +1. In UROC the max points is 40, or 4 gates. Once you get max points your run is over. The only way you could get more than 40 points is if you were broke and couldn't even attempt a course, UROC gives you 50 point for that.

Another thing I'd like to make like UROC is, instead of just running 2 100 yard courses for an event, is to break those courses into 5 sections each, so for a full event you would run 10, 20 yard courses.

Re: Competition Rules
 

i also list utrcrc rules

id say the wheelbase limit has to be 18 ish if theres gonna be one because that is about the perfect wheelbase

ryan

Re: Competition Rules
 

for you??


On topic: Jason I really like the "box" it will make peaple think out side the box to get in the box. :lol: I like the 16" wheelbase too. It will let a smaller area to crawl easyer to make big. 8) 8)

I am amazed at what
12 3/8" wb an 2.2's rollin 5" tires will do. :lol:

There is some "scale" wheeler talk for ya. :lol: :lol: :roll:

Re: Competition Rules
 

On the Outerlimits RC they mentioned closing loopholes in their (Aussie) rules.

I already know of 4-5 incidents were some controversy has come up:!:

The Utah rules are very good the just need to be a little more defined.
:!:

Some groups use tennis balls which present a slightly different situation than then flags used by other groups.

There seems to be some rules almost everyone agrrees with,and some of them are more controversial rules like "size & tire limits, and "rear-steer points". Maybe they sould be listed as an option rule

Example: Green Tree Comp Dec 25th RCCrawler.com Rules with options A,C

I could then go to the rules section on the website

Re: Competition Rules
 

So it sounds like we have a pretty good idea on what we want. We use the UTRCRC/Colorado point system with a max point system added. We then should come up with a specification on the rigs themselves (sizes and such).

As for handicap points....If it really comes down to that then we need to split the classes. Right now we only have enough guys to put together a "Pro"/"Mod" class, which is why Pinch and myself are building 2.2 crawlers to add more versatility.

So what kind of specs do we all want to use?

8)

Re: Competition Rules
 

I would like to see the only restiction on the top class to be 8" like was said before and that has to fit the "box". quik and simple. Also no more than two axles and must be a round tire like vehicle.

I would to not ever want see a spotter or spotter assistance, You could stand at the end where the finish gate is and see from there. That keeps the driver in the sport and money can't buy driving. :wink:

Also times should start counting for clean runs. That could be takin care with transponders like RC racing and a time limit set on the cuorses. One at the start gate to start it and one at the finish gate to stp the clock. It is not hard to make a system like that portable, a lap top and a generater/batt system.

The 2.2 if there is going to be a class should have to be a 2.2 rimmed rig and a 2.2 based model. The wheel base should not exceded 13"s center to center and a tire restriction of 6.5 inches because of the variose sizes available. The width I couldn't tell you, I can't seem to get width extenders anywhere and I still don't have my new visa. The "box" of a different size would apply in the end. If you want to fun duallys on you 2.2 is fine, just fit them on a 2.2 rim. It can be done if you want. I run a totaly different tire than most at 4.9"s advertised and can do alot with such said restrictions.

I like the KISS behind this, "keep it simple ......." thats makes for quik events with large turnouts of competiter's, wich will happen sooner than alot think I predict.

Re: Competition Rules
 

So it seems Utah/Colo rules are going to be the starting point? Are these posted somewhere?