2010 Rules Questions

[XSRCdesign]

We can leave the roof panel the way it is, I don't care either way.

Tuber rules were written to be as simple as possible without having to have a 32 page rule thread. And to let people build.

This thread was made to answer any questions for clarification, not to change rules you don't like.

That is a good question, you gonna make it this year Matt?

[team3six]

Originally Posted by Locked Up

How do you define an active comp series? Regular events or do you have to have a running series with a series winner and or finals, etc?

They are telling you that you should be affiliated with a club. most likely there is a club in your area that you can join. and then it helps if you run these rules and have a large impact involved in your club.

There are some clubs that don't run a series, its more or less a casual club. but then there are clubs that actually run a series of comps throughout the year.

I myself am not affiliated with any club because I live in the MIDDLE of no one comps here land. Not sure why there inst more people in Billings that run crawlers. Perhaps I should join WaRRAc or FVRCRC so I can get some more points in my favor.

I wouldn't worry about it too much though, these guys at MSD put on a really good time and its all fun more than anything.

[Locked Up]

There is a lot of discussion that we can get into regarding a tube frame/chassis/cage.


Most people would say that a Jeep (Wrangler for our purposes) is not a tube frame. Technically, it is though. It's box tube ... or more specifically a rectangular tube. But most people would not call the typical Jeep a tuber. Even if you build a jungle gym of a cage, unless the factory "frame" has been junked and replaced with something made of round tube ... it's still called a frame and not a tube frame.

The above Jeep, I can't see the chassis so I don't know if it's a tube frame or not. If the frame is tube, the same tube as the cage, then I'd say it's a tuber. The bronco is sitting on an SCX10 chassis and although it has an extensive cage I'd say it's not a tuber. However .... it is pretty dam close so....
I would say that perhaps you should make it necessary for someone that is not running a windshield, roof and full windows to have an interior, same as a tuber. Otherwise you are forcing tuber guys to run an interior where as other guys can cut their bodies all up and not have to run an interior, just because they kept part of a stock chassis. Doesn't seem right. I have every intention of adding that to our local list of things.

Tommy, if you see other things we have missed, let me know.

[Locked Up]

Originally Posted by team3six

They are telling you that you should be affiliated with a club. most likely there is a club in your area that you can join. and then it helps if you run these rules and have a large impact involved in your club.

There are some clubs that don't run a series, its more or less a casual club. but then there are clubs that actually run a series of comps throughout the year.

I myself am not affiliated with any club because I live in the MIDDLE of no one comps here land. Not sure why there inst more people in Billings that run crawlers. Perhaps I should join WaRRAc or FVRCRC so I can get some more points in my favor.

I wouldn't worry about it too much though, these guys at MSD put on a really good time and its all fun more than anything.

I'm affiliated with a club: CTXRCC ... and an association of clubs: TXRCRCA.

We've had a local explosion of scalers and are building up several club comps/series. I have been instrumental in the development of this for our local club and this thread was pointed out to me. I wanted to see how others are handling things. I think we actually go farther to reward people for being scale than what I see here and I was hoping to be able to bring some of that to the table for yall. At the same time I wanted to see how yall handle issues like what I'm seeing here.

Please don't mistake that as me knocking yall. I'm not. I think it was just easier for us to make large scale (no pun intended) changes at the local level and I think a lot of the changes we made work. FWIW, we took an old set of these rules to start with then modified them as we saw necessary.

Here is a link to our rule set (local CTXRCC) if yall get curious:
http://www.txrcrca.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2108

I'll shut up now as I think I'm hijacking this thread and that is not my intent.

[team3six]

Originally Posted by sloppy

your jeep does kinda have a boxed full frame thats what that big aluminum thing that all your tube work bolts to is.. Cchannel or box frame I think would be josh's point its not really a full tuber.. It is a jeep with a tube cage.. I think that is nit picking but I see his point. If either rig is called what they really are they dont need to meet the interior requirement.


No trouble intended they asked for input. You seem to have the right to bring up the roof panel. But I cant question a tire rule?? Of course I can see your satisfaction they changed the rule for you.

I am pretty sure some NOSTR guys will be there.

yeah but what I am saying is that the rules are made to run trucks, not push away people. I mean seriously if it were set up where there were full on tubers, How many would have them?

They didn't change the rule for me, what? do you really think I have that much pull? I'm some guy who enjoys just going to the comps is all. as explained already to you, they forgot to remove that rule. I was simply stating before that i thought it was a silly rule that hasnt anything to do with the look of a truck/tuber. But as exesivefire said, It wasn't a rule change! It simply wasnt removed as it should of been.

As for you, they already told you that it hasn't been a problem in the past to run a slightly smaller tire in the bed as long as it was close or similar to the ones you are running. I think the point is so that its more realistic, how many guys run a 5th wheel with a stock tire in the bed and 4 purpose tires on the ground when even just playing around on the trail? I would bet not too many!

Now if it helps you at all, I did fight to just be allowed one seat, you can ask Dev about that. There are trucks out there in 1:1. I wanted that because I was going to build a truck that was a tuber 1 seater. They didnt adjust those rules for me. It is what it is.

I hope you guys do come? it be nice to see ya there besides I told Nat I owe her a beer! and I owe Nick a kick in the ass!

[XSRCdesign]

That's essentially saying the same thing, and why someone bolting a tube frame to a chassis is awarded less points.

The interior rule is in the name of keeping things scale. We opened up the tube rules to try and let scale tubers in. Keeping an interior helps eliminate comp trucks entering our scale event.

The above mentioned truck is open bodied, and has a full cage, put a full body on it, and by these rules, yes the class may change.

[XSRCdesign]

Oh, and again

You do not have to run a spare tire in a truggy or flatbed.

It is a size reference.

[team3six]

Originally Posted by Locked Up

There is a lot of discussion that we can get into regarding a tube frame/chassis/cage.


Most people would say that a Jeep (Wrangler for our purposes) is not a tube frame. Technically, it is though. It's box tube ... or more specifically a rectangular tube. But most people would not call the typical Jeep a tuber. Even if you build a jungle gym of a cage, unless the factory "frame" has been junked and replaced with something made of round tube ... it's still called a frame and not a tube frame.

The above Jeep, I can't see the chassis so I don't know if it's a tube frame or not. If the frame is tube, the same tube as the cage, then I'd say it's a tuber. The bronco is sitting on an SCX10 chassis and although it has an extensive cage I'd say it's not a tuber. However .... it is pretty dam close so....
I would say that perhaps you should make it necessary for someone that is not running a windshield, roof and full windows to have an interior, same as a tuber. Otherwise you are forcing tuber guys to run an interior where as other guys can cut their bodies all up and not have to run an interior, just because they kept part of a stock chassis. Doesn't seem right. I have every intention of adding that to our local list of things.

Tommy, if you see other things we have missed, let me know.

I cant speak for other clubs or their rules. most of them that I have been to around here have run the MSD rules or those of the same likeness. I can tell you that in the past comp, it really hasn't been a huge problem and the rules have been pretty easy to follow. if anything they lightened up a bit on some rules and made it easier to get the points. I believe that the whole gain here is to run a more scale comp. too many guys last year were just running jeep bodies on a frame chassis with nothing on them and comp rock tires just to comp. it wasn't very scale! it was like you could just go out and buy an HPI wrangler and go. My thoughts are that these rules have been reformatted to accommodate the trueness of the comp rig in scale terms and make it fun for looks as well as skill. people being rewarded to comp a scale looking rig. Plus keep the times down and the amount of blunders out of the courses. It can kill a day when 50% of the trucks running are holding up an event because they really don't fall into any brackets. I guess you would of had to be here last year to see what I mean. I felt pretty bad for the judges and all they dealt with including with dealing with me!

Im glad that MSD does it how they do it and its what made me stay in this line of RC. It was fun, it is less hectic, it is a bunch of people being cool and enjoying each other company and I learned a lot from all who attended. I think that the way Ben has thin gs going on here that it does nothing more than attract new members.

[sally1800]

So my Pirate just has to follow the rules of a tuber? I also was thinking about the rule that the wheels have to line up with the body? The 1.1 of my rig has his front's past the wheel wells. That is also how I have mine. Is this ok?

[HotRodJosh]

Originally Posted by team3six

*first, get your facts right. My jeep doesn't have a C channel anything.
*second, Obviously you haven't seen many jeeps in your time, because 65% of jeeps are pretty much tube frames built on a chassis.
*third, all we run RC, Yes it is possible to build a full on tuber which I will have built for this comp. But chances are highly unlikely for the majority because people need adjust ability and to be able to incorporate modern RC electronics.
Quit being so technical and just enjoy this. I think the guys have done a much better job on the rules then it was last year.

Sorry...I wasn't trying to nitpick...just wanted to see what others thought.
And yes....I see Jeeps almost every weekend when out wheelin'. and they are still JEEPS, not tubers/buggies....

And for the record...I think the rules are great this year.

[XSRCdesign]

Originally Posted by saydee1800

So my Pirate just has to follow the rules of a tuber? I also was thinking about the rule that the wheels have to line up with the body? The 1.1 of my rig has his front's past the wheel wells. That is also how I have mine. Is this ok?

I would follow the tuber rules with that rig, wheel base looks good.

[Locked Up]

Pertaining to the rules ....

If this is all about scale, why limit the scale points to a max of 30?
I understand limiting it to 1 point per scale item and only allowing so many of them (IE only 1 tow strap gets you a point, etc) but why cap it all off at 30 points?


Along that vein we raised the limit to 50 points locally and it has really made guys push more towards making a scale rig.

[team3six]

but why raise the scale count when after all its about the skill of driving with those scale items that proves drivers worth.

I can understand your input, but personally I think the way the guys have written the rules, work for the type of comps that are run here and the style of crawling that these guys run.

[Tommy R]

Well, a key difference is that we (in TXRCRCA) don't have a minimun number of scale points required to compete. So we strongly rewarded very scale rigs to encourage people NOT to just slap a lexan body on an SCX10 and call it scale.

Nothing wrong with how either club does it. Just differents means to a similar end.

[team3six]

ahhh, I strongly encourage you guys to come here to the MSD's and you might be surprised that its not all that might be imagined it to be.

I will agree that both sets of rules aim toward the same goal. But on top of it, I think that the main reason for the MSD rules is the competition involved is pretty good so the bar is different. Not saying you guys aren't any good! But at this moment I can already guess who will the be the guys in the final rounds. and deservingly so.

But then again, I could be wrong. I know quite a few more people from across the country whom I have talked to will be coming. I'm sure the turn out will be a bit larger this year then last and hopefully a bit more challenging for all.

[Tommy R]

Ummm......who threw down a gauntlet? We're just trying to encourage our local guys to make more scale looking rigs than a box stock SCX10 so we implemented the rules that we did. I didn't say anything about our competition being better than anyone else's. :?

[team3six]

No, no, your mis understanding what i am saying.

you have your rules and they have these rules up here. The NOSTR guys run different rules over there as well as the PA guys.

I guess youll have to come out here to understand what I am trying to say.

The thing is, it seems like you guys don't agree with the rules and the way they are played out.

and it almost come off as your stepping into someones backyard to tell them to change it.

Its like a bunch of us guys coming down to you and telling you to change your rules to fit us.

[Locked Up]

Originally Posted by team3six

but why raise the scale count when after all its about the skill of driving with those scale items that proves drivers worth.

I can understand your input, but personally I think the way the guys have written the rules, work for the type of comps that are run here and the style of crawling that these guys run.

I guess my question back would be ... why not?

If two guys are both equal drivers and one does more towards building a "scale" rig ... why not give him more points?

We just see it as the more possibility for scale points, the more work people will put into building a scale truck and not a comp truck that looks scale.

We are just geared more towards building and the driving is secondary. Just a different perspective I guess.


I don't mean to say anything is better or worse, I was just wondering why the cap seems so low and why you wouldn't allow someone to max out the points or come closer. No big deal.

[Tommy R]

Originally Posted by team3six

No, no, your mis understanding what i am saying.

you have your rules and they have these rules up here. The NOSTR guys run different rules over there as well as the PA guys.

I guess youll have to come out here to understand what I am trying to say.

The thing is, it seems like you guys don't agree with the rules and the way they are played out.

and it almost come off as your stepping into someones backyard to tell them to change it.

Its like a bunch of us guys coming down to you and telling you to change your rules to fit us.

I don't want to hijack this thread any more than necessary, but I have to say that you could not be farther off-base in your accusations if you tried. I was simply participating in this discussion and asking for thoughts and rules clarifications. How anyone could say I was belittling the MSD Scale rules or any other clubs' rules is quite honestly beyond me. Feel free to PM me with exactly what I said that was construed as demeaning because I will not discuss it in this thread any further out of courtesy for everyone else here.

Regardless, if anyone else took ANYTHING I said as offensive (like team3six did), please accept my apologies for whatever it was you think I did that offended you.

[team3six]

can I see your rules?