Hopefully the Last Competition Rules Thread

[Fishmaxx]

OREGON RULES FOR UNLIMITED CLASS (IE: Maxx hybrids, clods, etc...)
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1) Each Gate passed (with all 4 tires) earns 50 points.
2) TOUCHING, knocking over OR straddling a cone: -10 points. Also, you can NOT touch a cone from a gate you've already passed through. (-10 points)
3)Repositions: -10 points. If you roll and land on your roof, or you get stuck, then you'll have to reposition. you may reposition within a truck length, or you may reposition ahead of the obstacle or gate you rolled attempting for another -5 points. -50 points for repositioning past a gate.
4) As it stands: No penalties for stopping or reversing.
5) Courses will be 5 gates now to allow everyone to run in 1 group and catch all the action. We can set up 3 5 gate courses and run as many as we have time for.
Each run will be timed. In the event of a tie, the truck with the fastest time will win. 10 minute maximum time limit per course.
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RULES FOR "SCALE TRUCK" Trail rides (IE: TLT or similar axled scale looking rigs)
1) The operator of the truck may not touch the vehicle in the event of a roll-over or 'stuck' situation. The vehicle must be rescued via winch or tow strap or by other trucks with similar recovery gear.
2) The vehicle must be relatively 'real' looking.
3) Ramps or Sand Ladders may be carried and placed by the operator, just like full-scale wheeling. Said ramps MUST be carried on the vehicle!
4) All spare parts and accessories that might be needed during the trail run must be carried on the vehicle. (Not counting battery packs or tools)
Lights are a plus for night driving and realism...

So in the Oregon rules you can keep backing up until you can get all 4 wheels through a gate, and your Tie Breaker is not actually a crawl off ...its based on total time.

Are gates and cones the same? If they are then do you get 40 points for straddling a gate cone? Does this mean 2 or 3 wheels going through a gate is OK?

Please explain how this is different .......to me it sounds basically the same

[Grizzly4x4]

Originally Posted by toyofast

What's this? If you breakdown or get tired you can stop your competition and then restart when you feel like it? Dumb. Give 'em 10 minutes for the course and call it good. If you fail to finish the course in 10 minutes then so what... you lost.

Just too many relaxed rules for all the seriousness you have placed onto these rules.

It's there so that the people who drove 9 hours to get to the comp and strip out a steering sevo on the second gate dont get a DNF for the whole course.
The Pinchflat, Kaetwo, Ace, and myself have spent alot of time talking after every comp this summer to try and come up with ways to have the comps be competitive and yet maintain some fun.

Standardized rules for every group will not happen, especially in an open forum. Too many people want the design of their vehicle or what they feel is important to drive the rules, and there are just too many opinions. Kaetwo or Pinchflat will be posting the UTRCRC rule changes sometime when they finish them, I am hoping to do a few next summer and even my rules will vary slightly. I like the idea of bonus points (like for clearing a gate with no repositions) but Pinchflat doesnt seem to like it, and that's OK.
If the organizers of the events discussed it then maybe, but look at Toyo's opinions, even he thinks that some of the rules we have included are dumb. So how can it ever happen?

EDIT: I'm not saying I dont want it to happen, but I just dont know how to compromise on so many differences.

[SR5Dave]

I hate the idea of limiting wheelbase, width and weight.

If I had it my way it would be like this:

Cones 18" apart. Vehicles must navigate between the cones. For each tire on the cone, 2 points. For each tire over the cone, 3 points. If the front right tire hits a cone and the rear right goes outside of it, that would be 5 points.

Adjustable wheelbase setups are questionable, but I'm not one to limit new technology in competition. This is how new technology comes about, businesses don't invest in racing to get their name out there, they want to discover new ideas and invent things that are better. Making everyone make the same freaking crawler would NOT do that.

If you want that, make a Formula class and sell RTR crawlers made to the same spec

[Grizzly4x4]

So you are saying that you have no problem driving 9 hours to a comp, every month, to compete against rigs that are setup completely different than yours even if you come in last place every time?

Businesses invest money in winning vehicles and drivers so their name gets recognized. Furthering the technology is not their reason for sponsoring. And how does limiting width and length limit new technology? Showing up to the comp with a 18" wheelbase is not ground breaking technology people. Ace's adjustable wheelbase rig could be allowed in the comps if the wheelbase at max extension still fit in the box. How's that limit his creativeness?
The purpose of the box is so that the competition is close, so that everybody who shows up has an idea of what they are up against and everybody has a chance at winning (if they can drive well).
NASCAR Winston Cup rules a so stringent that if one body design has an aerodynamic advantage they take it away. Boy, that has really killed the popularity of it huh? Too bad there is no sponsorship money going into that sport.

[Ace]

In the end rules will be set that piss people off. Cain't make everone happy and you shouldn't try.

K2, pinchy and grizz have hashed rules based on the experience of holding many comps where the contestants come from 100's of miles to compete.

You gotta set the rules and post 'em. If they're good, people will show if not they won't

If I gotta choose between two comps each 800 miles away you can bet I'm going to the one where the rules are listed and I'll know my rig will be competitive.

Run what ya brung will keep the hardcore few happy, but to grow the sport you gotta have guidline rules like the "gotta fit in this box" rule.

[DirkDigler]

All the more reasons to build multiple trucks. make a truck for each set of rules.......or make a fun bashing truck AND a hardcore truck that fits within the rules of comps.
When you think about it, in the 1:1 world, guys are building their rigs to comply with the rules.....we really should look at doing the same. Build it the best, while building along side of the other competitors on the same playing field. There is nothing wrong with that.
Think about this too. If you plan on being in a comp with rules and your truck does not meet the requirements, all you have to do is make some quick changes to your truck the week or day before. If it's too wide, get some different offset wheels. If it's too long, shorten the wheel base a tad. There's really nothing to complain about.

[Fishmaxx]

OK
I think the way to settle the issue of limiting vehicles is to set-up classes.

I know its been mentioned before many times. Some said "We don't have enough drivers for multiple classes" I include myself in that group.

Here is how we solve it. 2 or 3 classes: Unlimited Class anything goes...no limits. Limited Class with vehicles being held a certain requirement. 2.2 Class of some kind.

The thought that crossed my mind is who says every event has to offer every class.

Example: The Moab Event held in Utah is an Limited Class event.

As long as its disclosed up front the event organizers can include the classes they want.

Originally Posted by Ace

K2, pinchy and grizz have hashed rules based on the experience of holding many comps where the contestants come from 100's of miles to compete.

Well post the bitches 8O

[SR5Dave]

Originally Posted by Grizzly4x4

So you are saying that you have no problem driving 9 hours to a comp, every month, to compete against rigs that are setup completely different than yours even if you come in last place every time?

Businesses invest money in winning vehicles and drivers so their name gets recognized. Furthering the technology is not their reason for sponsoring. And how does limiting width and length limit new technology? Showing up to the comp with a 18" wheelbase is not ground breaking technology people. Ace's adjustable wheelbase rig could be allowed in the comps if the wheelbase at max extension still fit in the box. How's that limit his creativeness?
The purpose of the box is so that the competition is close, so that everybody who shows up has an idea of what they are up against and everybody has a chance at winning (if they can drive well).
NASCAR Winston Cup rules a so stringent that if one body design has an aerodynamic advantage they take it away. Boy, that has really killed the popularity of it huh? Too bad there is no sponsorship money going into that sport.

I'm saying set your rig up right

And my example of companies putting money into sponsorship for technology is for real sports, like F1 I shouldn't have left it so closed though, lots of companies do just do it for the publicity. Its more of a dual purpose thing for bigger companies (Ferrari, Ford, etc)

I don't think everyone should have a chance at winning, I think whomever has the best rig and can drive it should win. Thats just me.

[toyofast]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

So in the Oregon rules you can keep backing up until you can get all 4 wheels through a gate

Sure.. but looking at what you posted it seems as if you can do the same, right?

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Gates/Clearing Gates:
.
.
Vehicles may clear gates in forward or reverse as long as the vehicle is traveling in the intended course direction.

So by reading this it seems as if you are saying that you can clear the gates in reverse too.

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Are gates and cones the same? If they are then do you get 40 points for straddling a gate cone? Does this mean 2 or 3 wheels going through a gate is OK?

Gate = cone....

All 4 tires must go through gate, without touching any of the cones/markers/what-ever.... to be counted.

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

I think they intent of the "falling out of order" was to permit drivers to fix their vehicle while the competition continues not so the driver could rest. Do you actually want the comp to come to a stop for 10 minutes.

This is just being too nice. If you came to compete you'd be ready to compete... if you breakdown and can't fix it within your given 10 minute course limit then you are done for that course...period. Otherwise the rules are to relaxed, at least for the advanced drivers.

I don't think you understand our 10 minute time limit....

Course #1 = 10 minutes to complete, if you complete it under 10 minutes then it is noted on how much time remains and can be used to place you in the scoring(if needed). If you can not complete the course in the given 10 minute time limit then you get a DNF... but the points you earned will count, good or bad. So, if you breakdown halfway through the course, you get it fixed before your time runs out... Or you get a DNF.

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

I do'nt know how far you travel to compete, but its not uncommon for many drivers to travel several hours. I flew to Crawlstock this year fro Atlanta, and I am planning to go to Moab and one of Kevins AZ events next year.

It's not my fault you live on the East coast

I travel approx 80 miles one way to go to Salem where I crawl, buy parts at a RC Plus and BS with one of my builders.

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

If I have to use ladders & winchs to compete, and would be dropped if I could not fix my truck in 10 minutes. I don't think Oregon will be on my list.

The winches and so on are only for our Team Trials Class... It is based off real 1:1 type events like Team Trophy Challenge that happens every year here in the local area.

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

I think the way to settle the issue of limiting vehicles is to set-up classes.

I know its been mentioned before many times. Some said "We don't have enough drivers for multiple classes" I include myself in that group.

Here is how we solve it. 2 or 3 classes: Unlimited Class anything goes...no limits. Limited Class with vehicles being held a certain requirement. 2.2 Class of some kind.

The thought that crossed my mind is who says every event has to offer every class.

Example: The Moab Event held in Utah is an Limited Class event.

Well, why don't we just start to setup rules for every class so when it does come time for more than one class we already have it covered, or at least close to being covered?

Make the 2.2 Class follow our(ORCRC) scale Team Trials Truck class as most 2.2 guys are into scale looks anyway.

BTW, At the Moab Event would our RCRockGear Maxx trucks have been welcomed to complete or are they too much of the Unlimited Class?

[Highmark]

Aight here's my take on it-frankly I don't care if anyone pays attention or not seeing as how right now it's alot of bickering and not alot of progress.


Anywho

Scoring
+5 for getting your junk through the gate (that means all four tires-just make it simple already)
-1 for reposition
-1 for not getting through a gate
-1 for touching your rig in anyway (covers the hole "wut if I done kep it frum flipin with my toe")


Vehical requirements
-natta-

If you want to come out with a 1:1 moon buggy converted to R/c then you just have way to much time and money.

I don't see any point in complicateing the hell out of every little aspect, if you want to write 9 pages of regulations for a radio control truck to pass then judge the thing as it goes through a course have fun. I just do this crap because its fun

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Gates/Clearing Gates:
.
.
Vehicles may clear gates in forward or reverse as long as the vehicle is traveling in the intended course direction.

Originally Posted by Toyofast

So by reading this it seems as if you are saying that you can clear the gates in reverse too.

As I said before I used previous posts to put rules together. Basically I cut and pasted 4 sets of rules. That is a little goofy, but a penalty would be given for reverse with this version .......not in yours

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Are gates and cones the same? If they are then do you get 40 points for straddling a gate cone? Does this mean 2 or 3 wheels going through a gate is OK?

Originally Posted by Toyofast

Gate = cone....

All 4 tires must go through gate, without touching any of the cones/markers/what-ever.... to be counted.

So is it no Gate Points (50) and a 10 point penelty if you hit a gate wit the last tire........then you back up with no penelty and retry the gate again?

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

I think they intent of the "falling out of order" was to permit drivers to fix their vehicle while the competition continues not so the driver could rest. Do you actually want the comp to come to a stop for 10 minutes.

Originally Posted by Toyofast

This is just being too nice. If you came to compete you'd be ready to compete... if you breakdown and can't fix it within your given 10 minute course limit then you are done for that course...period.

Don't worry no one would ever think of you as nice

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

I do'nt know how far you travel to compete, but its not uncommon for many drivers to travel several hours. I flew to Crawlstock this year fro Atlanta, and I am planning to go to Moab and one of Kevins AZ events next year.

Originally Posted by Toyofast

It's not my fault you live on the East coast

I travel approx 80 miles one way to go to Salem where I crawl, buy parts at a RC Plus and BS with one of my builders.

Thats like an Hour and 15 minute tops if you drive like an old man.

Originally Posted by Toyofast

BTW, At the Moab Event would our RCRockGear Maxx trucks have been welcomed to complete or are they too much of the Unlimited Class?

I actually said I wanted to compete against trucks like you sell on your website. Whats Unlimited about them? I think they are very limited

[toyofast]

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

So is it no Gate Points (50) and a 10 point penelty if you hit a gate wit the last tire........then you back up with no penelty and retry the gate again?

You're not allowed to touch the gate/marker at all within the ORCRC rules.

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Don't worry no one would ever think of you as nice

Yep. I can be a hard-ass. I just see a few relaxed rules that have been posted, yet some of the rules want strict guidlines on how to build the truck. Allow unlimted building of the truck but have strict rules for running the courses. The tougher the courses the better built the rigs will get built.

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

Thats like an Hour and 15 minute tops if you drive like an old man.

Takes me hour and a half going 10 over the speed limit.... Plus filling the Tahoe's tank too often sucks the wallet dry.

Originally Posted by Fishmaxx

I actually said I wanted to compete against trucks like you sell on your website. Whats Unlimited about them? I think they are very limited

Well I see a Clod or TXT guy getting pissy because we have up to 5" of truck clearance(diff to diff, straight under whole truck) and still sit as low as they can, or lower.



Plain and simple... we will all make up our own rules for our areas. Some of them will be the same while others will be way off. We all build our trucks to stay competive with those that we crawl with most often. Some crawl more often than others so we are a bit more competive since we have more time going at it, for fun or in a competition.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by Toyofast

Well I see a Clod or TXT guy getting pissy because we have up to 5" of truck clearance(diff to diff, straight under whole truck) and still sit as low as they can, or lower.

The name is Fishmaxx not FishClod

[bustedcrawler]

Well I see a Clod or TXT guy getting pissy because we have up to 5" of truck clearance(diff to diff, straight under whole truck) and still sit as low as they can, or lower.

I am a TXT guy and I really don't care what the truck carries for stats. Ground Clearance doesn't mean anything if you can not pick a line to use that extra room, and it just allows a bigger rock to get wedged under you.

I really like the rules Ace, Griz, and the UT boys have hashed out and made work.

Oh, and for saying the CO/UT rules are lack when it comes to being able to start and stop, I don't agree with you what so ever. I was the guy that broke and needed to step out of the running order to fix my junk. It was damn nice of them to let me make 3 tries at the obstacle! It was nice to be able to fix my junk without rushing. And it was quite fair that for that course I took worst +1 for points. I think the way it is laid out now, you can have a lot more fun while still being able to be serious about competing.

[Fishmaxx]

Originally Posted by bustedcrawler

I was the guy that broke and needed to step out of the running order .

Originally Posted by Toyofast

Although.... this is where a line can be drawn for the advanced and newbie drivers. Newbies can have more relaxed rules.. while the advanced drivers don't get the baby me rules. Advanced guys it should be serious and drive like it's serious.


.......................... For the Advanced it's a no cry babies....

Busted I guess that makes you a big cry baby!



When I say big ..........I am not kinding...........How big are you like 6-2, 250

I bet not many people call you a baby to your face!

[Highmark]

-read the above post wronge-

Carry on

[bustedcrawler]

I guess I would be there Fishy, too bad I play just as hard as I work.

Yeah I am 6'4", and a fairly solid 230#. Not too many people talk much to my face, much less call me a baby.


Highmark, if you look at the quote you took from Fish, and look at the other quotes Fish had in his last post you can see how Fish is pointing out IMHO a flaw with Toyo's rules.

By Toyo's rules if your junk breaks, and can not be fixed in 10 mins you are SOL. If you want to have some leeway in fixing your truck you are a Newbie by Toyo's rules.

I am not one to brag, but I am no Newbie to crawlin. Hell look at UROC rules you get break down time in addition to the time between courses. Guess they are Newbs too, then huh?

[DirkDigler]

Busted: "Baby!!!!"

[SR5Dave]

Originally Posted by WannaBeDigler

Busted: "Baby!!!!"

x2 ;)

Never brag about your size, there is always someone bigger. And on the internet, everyone is a 7' tall 350# ex marine

[DirkDigler]

I was only kidding.
Matt is really 6'4" and 230. I've seen him.
But I'm 6'4" 250...ex SDPD SWAT
and now train SWAT, Seal, SS, Gaurd