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-   -   Competition Planning and Course Setup (http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/competitions/26790-competition-planning-course-setup.html)

Mad Scientist 02-26-2006 02:59 AM

Competition Planning and Course Setup
 
I've been kicking around the idea of putting together a competition (maybe), and I'd appreciaite some input from those who compete regularly, and those who are "in charge" of the competitions.


What general size area is mapped out for most competitions? I realize it isn't a straight shot from point A to point B, but about how many feet should the course traverse?

Are there a common number of gates or obstacles that you aim for?

How are comps organized? Do you have like tents and registration tables, or does everyone just show up, and maybe sign a clip-board?

Any entrance fees? How about prizes?

Are there any "standards" set for organizing and setting up a competition?

What kind of time-frame are we talking about? A couple hours, or all-day?


I have never been to a competition, so I am not familiar with how it usually goes down. If I ever do this, I'd like it to do it properly. It may be a bit much to ask, but a "behind the scenes" video at a competition would be awesome. It isn't too easy for me to take a day or two off and travel to a comp, so I have never been able to attended one to see just how it works.

Thanks a lot.

jason 02-26-2006 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
I've been kicking around the idea of putting together a competition (maybe), and I'd appreciaite some input from those who compete regularly, and those who are "in charge" of the competitions.

Awesome, I am currently working on another project that will help new guys figure out how to hold their own events, but I doubt it'll be done for several months.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
What general size area is mapped out for most competitions? I realize it isn't a straight shot from point A to point B, but about how many feet should the course traverse?

Our courses usually carry a 5 minute time limit. Very few people actually time out on courses. Some take as little as a minute to drive. Courses are not very long at all measured in feet I would guess depending on difficulty 25-50 feet. I usually like to set the courses so people can watch the entire course standing in the same spot, this helps keep people interested in watching if they don't have to hike up and down the same hill 80 times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
Are there a common number of gates or obstacles that you aim for?

Not really, some courses may be real long and technical and have like 10 gates. Other courses may just be like a huge climb with maybe 3 sets of gates. Progress points are given for each set of gates cleared, not counting the start or finish gates, it seems that our average amount of progress gates is about 5-7.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
How are comps organized? Do you have like tents and registration tables, or does everyone just show up, and maybe sign a clip-board?

We usually just wait till it looks like everyone that is going to show up does so, and I make up enough numbers for everyone to draw their running order. While we are hanging out we'll help answer any questions any newbies may have, and we'll look over the crawlers to make sure they fit into the rules for the class they are entering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
Any entrance fees?

Not we don't charge anything, we have thought about chipping like $5 each and having that money go to the winners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
How about prizes?

No we don't have prizes, because no entry fees are charged there isn't a pool of money from which to buy prizes. Another reason we don't have prizes is because I am not comfortable with going around and asking for them from people. Plus beating Dirk and Bender is usually a pretty good reward :flipoff:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
Are there any "standards" set for organizing and setting up a competition?

RCC does have a standardized set of rules. These rules were written by a committee comprised of the people that hold events all over the country. All though these rules only tell of how the actual scoring is done, and the vehicle classifications. But like I said, I am working on another project that will help new people such as yourself learn how to setup and run a comp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
What kind of time-frame are we talking about? A couple hours, or all-day

We usually meet at 9am and start competing about 10am. For the most part we try to run 2 courses, then break for lunch and do 2 more courses after lunch.

Depending on the weather, the amount of people, and the difficulty of the courses we are usually done by like 2-3pm. After the events most of us usually hang out until dark just having fun trying new lines. <--That is usually the most fun of the day ;-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
I have never been to a competition, so I am not familiar with how it usually goes down. If I ever do this, I'd like it to do it properly. It may be a bit much to ask, but a "behind the scenes" video at a competition would be awesome. It isn't too easy for me to take a day or two off and travel to a comp, so I have never been able to attended one to see just how it works.

Thanks a lot.

There are plenty of people here that have done it, and I am sure you'll get a lot of good feedback in this thread.

I know you said it is hard to do, but your best bet would be to try and show up at an event put on by another group, just to kind of see how things are ran.

Hope this helped, good luck!

kevinlongisland 02-26-2006 08:11 AM

Our stage length is determined by the terrain, and so will yours. If your crawling on a pile of rocks, you may only need 10-15 feet. Locally, we've run stages as long as 40-50 feet to get a bunch of really good but spread out obstacles all in one stage. But our average stage length is about 20 feet.

We have a tent sometimes, but usually everyone is congregating in the same area so we just announce that the clipbords are out and that everyone signs up.

Concerning entrance fees, that's up to you. Some clubs have them, some don't. It will be easier to attract people in the beginning if you don't have any fees. We don't have any fees locally and don't plan to have any in the future. Our focus is to bring people out to crawl and have fun. You may loose the fun factor for some of the competitors if you start charging fees.

Here are the official rccrawler.com rules:

http://www.rccrawler.com/rules.pdf

And score sheet:

http://www.rccrawler.com/RCC_Official_Scoresheet.doc

We start at around 9am and run till 1-3pm. Some tips I've learned:

Focus on producing the maximum amount of drive time for the competitor/driver. If you have 2 or 3 stages setup before you start, once the competitors finish a stage, you can start them on the next. Adjust how quick you push drivers through the stages according to mood of the event. Sometimes we do this, sometimes we don't. It just depends on the event.

Make sure you understand the rules. If you have a good group, you can consult the group standing around you if you are uncertain about how to call a penalty.

*****Get lots of help. You cannot effectively run an event by yourself. We always run each class at the same time. So the 2.2's and Unlimited trucks are running simultaneously. So you need at least two judges to do that. Then it's nice to have a third person not judging to take care of everything else. This may include getting the next set of stages set up and assigning a set of judges for those stages. But having help is very important.

When driver "X" is about to start a stage, let the guy who is running after him know that he is next so he can get ready. This is important because sometimes it will take them 5-10 minutes to get ready and that wastes time.

Time management is very important at a comp. You want the event to flow smoothly. Not all clubs do this, but you may want to focus on maximizing the drive time each competitor gets. That is why most people come to an event, to drive competitive stages. And it's been a complaint at many comps so make sure you get enough drive time in for everyone.

Good luck setting up your own events! :)

Mad Scientist 02-26-2006 12:18 PM

Thanks for tossing this up as a Sticky. You guys have contributed some good info here already, this will really help me out a lot. :D Hopefully others will be inspired to organize competitions as well, so there will be more "local" events.

freetimecrawler 03-26-2006 06:03 PM

Excellent info gents, very helpful. I used to run a company called Adventure Sports Promotions, we promoted all kinds of outdoor adventures but never a RC crawling event. Looks like a new avenue for some promotions.
Jason, please get that going A.S.A.P. a few months?? It'll be winter again here.

stickboy 04-06-2006 08:15 AM

very helpfull.

Mnster 05-07-2006 05:57 PM

Is there anyway one of the comp guys could put up their clipboard file? It would save me time and be a asset to anyone who wants to start a comp. I have a basic idea of what it looks like frequencies, name, class, ect. But, how does the scoring section look? Little check boxes for added points? How is the scoring generally recorded? Are the points added up after each run to give the competitor his gate score? Or is all calculating done after everyone has ran?

kevinlongisland 05-08-2006 10:02 PM

I added the score sheet up top in my text. Here it is again:

http://www.rccrawler.com/RCC_Official_Scoresheet.doc

freetimecrawler 05-08-2006 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinlongisland
I added the score sheet up top in my text. Here it is again:

http://www.rccrawler.com/RCC_Official_Scoresheet.doc

Appreciate it. We're running a summer comp series and it will be very helpful.:)

kevinlongisland 05-08-2006 10:24 PM

Your welcome :) Good luck with the summer series. I'm sure it will be a blast.

freetimecrawler 05-08-2006 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinlongisland
Your welcome :) Good luck with the summer series. I'm sure it will be a blast.

Thanks again, I'm sure it will be a blast. I'm looking forward to it. ;-)
We'll be posting pic's and vids.

rockwerks 05-09-2006 08:22 AM

We may hold a few comps up here in the north when the temps in PHX reach 120*

Just ordered 2 of these little kits.........we will see how big the cones are but appear to be about 2" tall............any thoughts?.......The tennis balls just dont cut it in the looks dept

http://p2pitrade.com/html/products/toy/slrt.html

http://p2pitrade.com/html/products/t...ges/SLRT05.jpg

kevinlongisland 05-10-2006 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockwerks
We may hold a few comps up here in the north when the temps in PHX reach 120*

Just ordered 2 of these little kits.........we will see how big the cones are but appear to be about 2" tall............any thoughts?.......The tennis balls just dont cut it in the looks dept

http://p2pitrade.com/html/products/toy/slrt.html

http://p2pitrade.com/html/products/t...ges/SLRT05.jpg

rockwerks, it would be nice to have another place to drive to that's not 14 hours away to attend a comp. I know some of us will drive up there for a comp if you put one on. We have cones here as well. But we only use them for the start and end gates. Cones probably won't stay on allot of the spots we need to place them.

rockwerks 05-10-2006 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinlongisland
rockwerks, it would be nice to have another place to drive to that's not 14 hours away to attend a comp. I know some of us will drive up there for a comp if you put one on. We have cones here as well. But we only use them for the start and end gates. Cones probably won't stay on allot of the spots we need to place them.

a lil sticky rubber on the bottom and they will hold nearly vertical

Looks like we gotta start up N.A.R.C. ;-)

kevinlongisland 05-10-2006 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockwerks
Looks like we gotta start up N.A.R.C. ;-)

Sounds good to me!!!

rockwerks 05-10-2006 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinlongisland
Sounds good to me!!!


http://az-rcfreaks.com/modules.php?n...viewforum&f=40

I guess I shoulda kept my big mouth shut!:flipoff:

Mnster 06-28-2006 10:45 PM

How many comps do you guys have per season?

kevinlongisland 06-29-2006 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mnster
How many comps do you guys have per season?

It all depends on the interval between comps you setup. We used to do every 4 weeks, now we do every 3 weeks. Most everyone is running a 6 month points series.

freetimecrawler 06-29-2006 10:21 AM

We're doing a series of 8 comps in Mn with the best of 6 counting for points total.

badgravity 11-16-2006 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinlongisland
Here are the official rccrawler.com rules:

http://www.rccrawler.com/rules.pdf

And score sheet:

http://www.rccrawler.com/RCC_Official_Scoresheet.doc

can those rules be used outside US ?
Translated into other language and change symbolics while keeping
healthy respect and links to original authors ?

rockwerks 11-16-2006 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badgravity
can those rules be used outside US ?
Translated into other language and change symbolics while keeping
healthy respect and links to original authors ?


I think Jason would be honored."thumbsup"

WheelChair 04-27-2007 12:08 AM

I had to post a link to this video. :shock:

Now this is some killer setup on the courses!"thumbsup"

http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/videos/69533-warcrc-comp-6-winter-series-season-finale-video-available.html

Thats how its done!!"thumbsup"

jaxcoffee 10-04-2007 03:34 PM

did this ever get done?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason (Post 251062)
Awesome, I am currently working on another project that will help new guys figure out how to hold their own events, but I doubt it'll be done for several months.

I was just wondering if there was anything that came of this effort, or if there are still plans to do this?

Thanks

yelo 05-23-2008 04:22 PM

Hello guys, I'm tryin to organised some kind of crawling comp and I need an example of scorring sheet, I remember seeing one somewhere but can't find it anymore. Anyway, from what I remember, I didn't completly understand how it worked so I would have had to ask for help anyway....

I know the easyest way would be to attend a comp but as far as I know, their's no comp anywhere near my place...

Any help would be greatlly appreciated.

If it can be of any help, I plan on using USRCCA rules unless someone provide me with a better version of a rule book... But that I doubt:lol:

René
http://crawlcanada.com/forum/images/misc/progress.gif http://crawlcanada.com/forum/images/buttons/edit.gif

airborn 05-27-2008 01:30 AM

I have started a series hear in Indiana and used the usrcca rules they are a nice set of rules and tips for running a event.

in my sig I have the link to the rules and a link to our series page, the link to the score sheet is on the front page."thumbsup"

4x4wheelier 08-31-2008 09:19 PM

netxt comp.
 
when will be the next cop? Were would it be located at? I want to go to my first comp soon.

airborn 09-02-2008 11:58 PM

check this out

www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133241

stampedeproject 01-22-2009 01:00 PM

Notes and Lessons Learned from the 2009 Midwest Challange
 
The 2009 2.2. Midwest Crawler Challenge is a huge event. 100+ competitors, major sponsors, big $ prizes, and national level exposure and competitors.

Here are some suggestions for all events going forward:

PRICING

  • PICK SOMEONE RESPONSIBLE IN YOUR CLUB AS A TREASURER!!!!!
    • There can be a ton of cash coming in for these events. Assure you trust them with thousands of dollars in sponsorship and entry fees.
    • There could also be a income tax considerations
  • I took a bunch of heat when I bumped the 2008 $25 entry fee to $50, but even two months from the event date we only have 13 of the 100 entries left to sell so it wasn’t that big of a deal. I think event the super cheap folks now understand that these events cost money. Honestly, if you can’t afford the $50 entry fee, you probably can’t afford the travel and should consider another hobby that fits your budget better.
  • I would suggest if this is a club hosted outdoor event, where existing course is used and there is no course build cost, $25-$40 is a good entry fee.
    • With the exception of your time, about the only real cost will be the numerous course markers, and t-shirts.
    • Try to target enough money from the entry fees that you can at least cover your costs and give away a nice kit to the winner.
    • The better the prizes the more the event will grow.
  • Indoor events such as the 2.2. MICC are extraordinarily expensive.
    • The KCRC team who hosting the event last year went seriously in the hole and had large out of pocket expenses.
    • An event like the 2.2. MICC can easily have costs exceeding $4000 including course build, shirts, and venue hosting costs and you still need to pony up for some giveaways. A $5K budget is not out of the question.
    • For indoor events, most venues will require a per entry charge for hosting the event of at least $5-$10.
    • Make a budget before you state the price for the event. The entry fees don't go as far as you think they will, especially if you want to have t-shirts for the event. You don't want to have to make up the difference out of your pocket.
    • Even at $50 a pop and cash sponsors our budget was/is still tight.
  • Typical Costs
    • T-Shirts $10 each – typical 50-100 shirt minimum
    • Logo development - $200-$500
      • Do it once and you have a good looking logo going forward.
      • I used Freq E Tag and Neal did an outstanding job. Highly recommended and very professional.
    • Course Markers $20/4 – USRCCA note 3-10 gates per course and 1-3 courses. Potentially you could need 30 gate markers or about $150-$200 worth of gate markers. Keep that in mind, it’s a big up front cost for small events.
    • Hosted Venue – As noted, could be $5-$10 per entry.
    • National/State park entry fees – you may spend more that a few weekends at the park. You need to check with the Ranger, they may have restrictions or deposits for large groups to use or reserve an area. Check on group discounts.
    • Giveaways – Sponsors will only give so much, so you will need to add some giveaways using entry fee $$.
    • Indoor course development/build – This could be huge depending on how resourceful you are. We allotted over $3000 for course building.

REGISTRATION
Use EventBrite to book the event (http://www.eventbrite.com/r/nsca)
http://www.eventbrite.com/r/nsca

I can't possible tell you how freaking easy this makes the sign up, sales, and overall managment of the event. WORTH EVERY PENNY!!!

  • Looks professional and adds credibility to the event
  • Shows sponsors you are not just someone looking for free stuff.
  • Lessens participant back out
  • Eliminated no-pays and chasing down entry fees
  • Money dumps right into a PayPal account
  • Fees ($50 entry was $1.25 per ticket) can be in addition to the ticket price or included in the ticket price.
  • Allows for discount or fee ticket codes for judges, scorekeepers, last year’s winner,…etc.
  • Enter the event location and it generates a event map automatically.
  • Allows you to specify registration questions entrants must provide. This would otherwise be a giant pain to keep track of.
    • I asked what rig, ESC, tire, etc. would they be running, what class and t-shirt size, along with a few other questions.
    • I even asked if they wanted to be promoted by sponsors or other industry related manufacturers/retailers (this allows you to legally provide this info to manufacturers - very valuable info to collect).
  • Allows for digital check in via bar code scanning and any PC video camera - (requires free Eventbrite software install.)
  • Excel and other reports show you all the info compiled and sliced and diced - SUPER HANDY AND CONVENIENT
  • Note to entrants that registrations are transferable, but are not refundable after a certain date (I would recommend at least 30 days before the event). This allows people to transfer them to someone else if they are not able to attend at the last minute, but prevents wishy washing decisions and constant cancelations.
  • Charge a cancelation fee in excess of you EventBrite and Paypal fees. Ours cancelation fee was $10.

SPONSOR INVOLVEMENT
  • Bluntly put, a high % of previous crawler events/comps have used “sponsorship” as a way of raping the vendors for free products... and most especially the ones with $$ to spend have about had it with the "crawler events". Some were/are down right pissed. If your intent is to get stuff to stick in your closet, don't, all it does it make it tough for legitimate events to get sponsorship.
  • Keep an accounting off everything the sponsor donated for the event.
  • Provide them with sponsor donation receipts they can use for tax purposes based on the value they donated.
  • Don't lump all sponsors together (unless it's a very small event).
  • Sponsors give at different levels so assure you have a tiered sponsor level.
    • For the 2009 2.2. MICC we set
      • (1) $400 + product Platinum Title Event Sponsor
      • (4) $250 + product for Platinum Course Sponsors
      • $50-$100 + product for Gold Sponsors.
      • General product sponsors - Silver sponsors
      • Silver sponsors do not appear on the shirt or in marketing info.
  • ALL PRODUCT DONATED MUST GO TO GIVEAWAYS (no matter how cool you think it is). This makes the event better and stronger when sponsors and participants know they will walk away with something. Several of the sponsors I worked with told me stories that their X products were never given away... they just vanished. This makes us all look bad.
  • Put together a bulleted list of what a sponsor will get.
    • Example
      • Platinum Sponsorship
        • Course branded sponsorship
        • Preferred banner and logo placement at event over gold or silver sponsors.
        • Display table/booth at the event
        • Product/brand highlight during the event
        • Media coverage – RC Car Magazine and RCCrawler.com live web feed coverage.
  • If you are hosting the event on site at a Hobby Retailer, then try to work with the retailer and sponsor to offer event day specials to foster sales. Good for the hobby shop, attendees, and the sponsor.
  • Be good to the sponsors and they will return next year bigger and better. Treat them like $2 hookers and we can all kiss their involvement in any future events goodbye.




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stampedeproject 01-22-2009 01:01 PM

Notes and Lessons Learned from the 2009 Midwest Challange - Part 2
 
Part 2

EVENT DATE<o:p></o:p>

  • Pick a date at least 2 months out. Some of the competitors/Crawlers are so hard core they will risk job and marriage for the event, others have lives that we will need to manage the event into.
  • If you think you need RCCrawler.com live coverage, make sure you check with Badger and Jason FIRST before setting the date. We had to change the date, because of their availability.
  • Saturday’s seem to work the best for everyone involved and allow travel on Friday and Sunday to and from the event.

OTHER<o:p></o:p>
  • Try to set up a special hotel rate for the event at a decent moderately priced hotel. Noting most of us that can afford to go to these events probably are not interested in Bob’s Flea Bag Motel for $25 a night. Pick something like a Holiday Inn Express or Fairfield Inn.
  • Food – I am still working on this, but I would suggest setting aside some money to provide drinks and some food for the judges and scorekeepers. The 2.2 MICC is expected to be a long 10+ hour day and we need to keep the judges and scorekeepers happy. Bring in breakfast and lunch for them. If you are in a remote park, definitely have extra drink to provide or sell.
  • Provide directions and a Map if possible.
  • Day before and day of Event HOTLINE for all competitors.
  • Let competitors know how comprehensive the retailer or retailers are near the event. They may need to bring extra gear.


Coldnorth 01-29-2009 02:58 PM

That was an awesome post, stampedeproject - great info.

Something that gets missed by most small clubs is the importance of ensuring that their organizations - and ther board of directors - have people whose skills will be useful in achieving the organization's goals.

For this particular topic, if your club is looking to put on an event, check your member list for:
  • Event promoters / wedding planners;
  • Sales or marketing professionals / entrepreneurs;
  • Accountants / bookkeepers;
There is a high likelihood that someone in your area who's into RC crawling does (or has done) one of the above jobs - or is married/related to someone who does. Even if you can't get them to provide their services for free, it's likely they'd be happy to provide some guidance to help you along the path.

If you don't have them, figure out how to get them involved. Be strategic in your member and board recruitment - figure out what skills your organization needs, and then try to fill the group with people who have those skills and who share your organization's goals and love of this hobby.

ROCKEDUP RICKY 02-11-2009 03:21 PM

Thanks alot, I was going to talk to you about alot of this stuff at the comp. Now I don't have to pick your brain, you just layed it out for me.

I be taking these notes to the club when we talk about CRAWLAPALOOZA 09. "thumbsup"

dunerdude69 07-02-2009 04:38 PM

any comps happening in az now or are they all in the winter

savagesteve11 07-11-2009 02:05 PM

have been running comps in western colorado for one year now and now we are getting insurance and permitts for running on BLM, was wondering if there is a ins. group we can go through, steve from grand valley crawling club

DyrtyByrd 03-25-2010 10:15 PM

are the 2005 rules the same now? have any revisions been made my lhs is thinking about doing some comps

skid plate 10-19-2010 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DyrtyByrd (Post 2376542)
are the 2005 rules the same now? have any revisions been made my lhs is thinking about doing some comps

Rules have been update considerably.

Here is the link for your viewing and resourse use. Enjoy.

http://www.usrcca.com/rules/2010_USRCCA_Rules.pdf








JC
8)

High Angle Five 12-31-2015 08:37 AM

Re: Competition Planning and Course Setup
 
awesome info guys! I've been to one event and it lasted close to 5 hours and there were approximately 60 gates I believe.im assuming that 5 hours isn't the usual time. I like the idea of the whole course able to be seen from one side to the other to save you trekking back and forth once you're done with the competition. "thumbsup"

FunkMasterFlex 01-25-2019 07:41 PM

Re: Competition Planning and Course Setup
 
Thanks for this info


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