Competition Rules

[SlinkySam]

I have seen some great shots of competitions, but I am curious how the events are being scored. Are they the same as the 1:1 crawler comps? Is there a place with all the scoring details posted?

Thanks
-Sam

[TwistedCreations]

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Mo...pic.php?t=5867

[Fishmaxx]

These are the rules as used by a recent competition held in Austrialia

50 points for gate - Must DRIVE three wheels through gate in line with boundary offence guidelines. Gates will be line rather than dot. No drive, no points.

-5 points for reverse - Front wheels past where rear wheels were, as determined by marshall.

-25 points for a rollover - Complete rollover or requiring reposition. Reposition to be done by marshall where the truck lays.

-50 ponts for reposition - Marshall to reposition truck within truck length. Gate Points CANNOT be gained for reposition through obstacle/gate.

-15 points for boundary offence - Wheel touches boundary line for first time. Two wheels on same side touching boundary deemed as not having driven three wheels through gate.

10 gates for 500 point total. Course is assumed to be the most reasonable direct path between gates within 1m width following arrows.

I think these are pretty good rules, that my need a little tweaking.
I have a few suggestion I will later.
Also lot of the rules of Golf have addressed the same kinds of issues we might have in crawling.

[SlinkySam]

Cool deal. Thanks for posting that.

I have one question which comes up in regular 1:1 comps. If you choose to bypass a gate instead of attempting it, do you get penalized? The reason I ask is you can assess several penalty points in attempting a gate, but someone behind will see that it is hard and may choose to bypass it to not get any penalties. I see several problems with trying to give penalty points for not attempting the gate so that might not be an option. Just a thought as I was reading the rules.

Since the competition stuff is so new (well new to me anyway) are there no limitations on vehicles yet? I am trying to build a crawler now and want to know in case I go and compete with everyone.

-Sam

[jason]

I am currently in the process of writing the rules for the comps we hold. I hope to have them posted by this afternoon.

Any suggestions?

[Grizzly4x4]

I would like to see a tire size and wheelbase limit. Maybe one class is limited to under 7" tires and under 14" wheelbase then the open class could be over 7" tires and over 14" wheelbase. I dont feel that width should be restricted in any class.

Just my ideas, I have never been to any of the comps so I dont really know anything.

[jason]

Width will be restricted a little bit by the minimum spacing on the cones.

I think in the future we will have to have seperate classes, but at this time with the small amount of people, I don't think it's necessary.

[Grizzly4x4]

I understand Jason.

Seems to me that bypassing gates should not be allowed. I am not real familiar with the problems SlinkySam mentions but it sounds like it could open up all kinds of problems.

Another suggestion, backup penalties should be small because I think this promotes driving obstacles.

Should there be a minimum time for a section to discourage me getting an E-Maxx with Kongs and just mashing the gas through it all. Not that I would do that but it could happen I guess.

Not tryin to be a pain just tryin to help.

[jason]

No minimum time limit. If you can just mash the gas and get through without hitting cones, or rolling over more power to ya!

[Grizzly4x4]

Fair enough!

I'm gonna need bigger tyres!

[Fishmaxx]

1)I think it be easier for the marshals to judge reverse penalties if you use the front/rear of truck instead of wheel base. Which may be obscured by course obstacles.

2)Roll-overs need to be defined very clearly.........Is it a roll-over if land on wheels If so I think you should be panelized less than if you need assistance

3)By-passes should be moved to a set drop zone with no gate points, plus a penalty of at least 3x the gate value to encourage the gate to be attempted but not so sever as to knock a driver out if he has to bypass.

4)Or maybe a maximum amount of penalties between gates..........then the driver picks up and moves to the next drop zone located between gates

[jason]

Here are some of the things I had in mind.

1. Lowest score wins.
2. 40 is the most points you can receive on one obstacle. (see rule #3)
3. If you do not attempt an obstacle you receive 50 points.
4. If you hit a cone, or other predetermined marker, you receive 10 points.
5. If you stop for more than 4 seconds you receive 1 point. (Judge will count 1, 1 thousand, 2, 1 thousand, 3, 1 thousand, stop.
6. Backups less than the wheelbase of your vehicle are not counted. If you back up more than that you receive 1 point.
7. If you roll over and are able to get the vehicle righted without touching you may continue, with no penalty.
8. You can at any time move the vehicle by hand 12” in any direction. For doing this you receive a 30 point penalty.
9. Cone spacing will be no less than 20”

[NeoSlayer888]

Jason with the rules you are planning will I have any problem running X-Factor axles? I plan on running them with MGT/BFT tires and a 15.5” wheelbase. Kind of like Dirks pre Jumbo Kong Digler.

[jason]

I don't see any problems with doing what you plan to do. The only rule that might effect it is the minimum width between cones. I know x-factor axles are wide, and without measuring I think that 20" should be plenty of room to get between the cones. I can measure when I get home, as my maxx crawler is about the same width as the Dirk Digler.

[SlinkySam]

Looks great. I can't wait to compete with you guys some time or maybe I can sponsor a competition series. Either way, I can't wait to see everyone in action.

So, combining all rules I have seen, here is what I like. Granted, I don't have one yet, but I am going off of what I have seen in videos where RC cars aren't driven the same as the full size comp rigs. So, the penalty points are a bit higher than in 1:1 competitions.

General Rules
Scoring starts at 0pts
Winner is decided by the driver with the least points at the end of the competition
Maximum points per gate (100pts) - except if gate is skipped, then its (110pts)
Batteries may not be changed mid course
Broken parts may not be fixed mid course, but if a vehicle can finish broken, hell yeah. Now that's course committment :-)
Gates must be completed in numerical order and in the direction of the course design. No driving to the opposite side of the gate and coming through.


Penalty Points
1 - Reverse "backing up" (5pts) - Note, entering the course backwards to align up for an obstacle better instantly assesses the reverse penalty.
2 - Rollovers requiring assistance (20pts) - Vehicle must be placed back on wheels where it landed. If its impossible to drive out of that position, the closest driveable location will be used with another 1pt penalty
3 - Vehicle stuck (10pts) - When a vehicle is stuck on an obstacle, the minimum amount of movement needed to free the vehicle is allowed with the penalty Movement must be in backwards to the direction of the course. So a driver cannot move the vehicle further forward to be freed.
4 - Hit Gate (20pts)
5 - Skipped gate (110pts)
6 - Missed course (Maximum course points based on Skipped gate penalties)

Non Penalty Points
1 - Stops (No Penalty) since a stop really doesn't aide the driver that much. It only aides when you have a spotter stacking rocks)
2 - Rollovers and recovering without assistance (No Penalty)

Bonus Points
1 - Progression gates. (50pts) Each gate is a progression through the course
2 - Bonus lines. (100pts) A course may have a more difficult bonus line that can be attempted, but is not required. However, it would be an alternate to a standard gate.

Course Design
Gates (cones, should be placed in a way where they aren't the obstacle to climb but dictate the course. So it shouldn't be a battle of cones, but a battle of the obstacle.
Gates should be not be narrower than 30 inches apart. I recommend 30 just because the obstacles should be the rocks and not so much the gates. The gates define the course designers path.

Vehicle Requirements
Currently Open, but as events occur, a pattern will be seen to where classes should be broken up.




-Sam

[jason]

I like some of your rules Sam. Never thought about the stop penalty, it's not really needed here.

Let's all hash this out and vote together on the "Official" RC Rockcrawling rules. If we all start off with the same rules, it makes it much easier for when we get together.


30" seems rather wide for cone placement, my truck is one of the widest and it comes in off the top of my head right around 15". Alot of the courses I've built you couldn't possibly keep the cones 30" apart.

[Fishmaxx]

The way I am reading your scoring system...I seems you meant to say high score wins (+) points for gate completion, (-) points for penalties OR are you saying all (-) points for everything

I like your system very much I would just change the concept to (+) points for good driving, and (-) points for mistakes

Originally Posted by SlinkySam

Looks great. I can't wait to compete with you guys some time or maybe I can sponsor a competition series. Either way, I can't wait to see everyone in action.

So, combining all rules I have seen, here is what I like. Granted, I don't have one yet, but I am going off of what I have seen in videos where RC cars aren't driven the same as the full size comp rigs. So, the penalty points are a bit higher than in 1:1 competitions.

General Rules
Scoring starts at 0pts
Winner is decided by the driver with the least points at the end of the competition
Maximum points per gate (100pts) - except if gate is skipped, then its (110pts)
Batteries may not be changed mid course
Broken parts may not be fixed mid course, but if a vehicle can finish broken, hell yeah. Now that's course committment :-)
Gates must be completed in numerical order and in the direction of the course design. No driving to the opposite side of the gate and coming through.


Penalty Points
1 - Reverse "backing up" (5pts) - Note, entering the course backwards to align up for an obstacle better instantly assesses the reverse penalty.
2 - Rollovers requiring assistance (20pts) - Vehicle must be placed back on wheels where it landed. If its impossible to drive out of that position, the closest driveable location will be used with another 1pt penalty
3 - Vehicle stuck (10pts) - When a vehicle is stuck on an obstacle, the minimum amount of movement needed to free the vehicle is allowed with the penalty Movement must be in backwards to the direction of the course. So a driver cannot move the vehicle further forward to be freed.
4 - Hit Gate (20pts)
5 - Skipped gate (110pts)
6 - Missed course (Maximum course points based on Skipped gate penalties)

Non Penalty Points
1 - Stops (No Penalty) since a stop really doesn't aide the driver that much. It only aides when you have a spotter stacking rocks)
2 - Rollovers and recovering without assistance (No Penalty)

Bonus Points
1 - Progression gates. (50pts) Each gate is a progression through the course
2 - Bonus lines. (100pts) A course may have a more difficult bonus line that can be attempted, but is not required. However, it would be an alternate to a standard gate.

Course Design
Gates (cones, should be placed in a way where they aren't the obstacle to climb but dictate the course. So it shouldn't be a battle of cones, but a battle of the obstacle.
Gates should be not be narrower than 30 inches apart. I recommend 30 just because the obstacles should be the rocks and not so much the gates. The gates define the course designers path.

Vehicle Requirements
Currently Open, but as events occur, a pattern will be seen to where classes should be broken up.




-Sam

[Fishmaxx]

OR .................How about this

Your penalty rules.............Were each gate is worth a possible 100 points
once you have been penalized 100 points. You pick up and move to a set drop zone after the previous gate.

So the squence would be Starting Line, Gate #1, Drop#1,Gate #2, Drop#2............etc,etc, Finish Line

Tie breaker #1 Most completed gates
Tie breaker #2 Fastest time

I think this would keep things moving, allow newbies a chance to complete the course without being totally embarrased.

[toyofast]

Everything you guys have talked about is good but....

It gets even harder to do all this in person!!

At ORCRC's first comp we decided to keep it simple. We had two courses, 1st one was tougher than second. It took us approx 4.5 hours to do the 2 courses with a 15 minute break between the two. We had only 11 trucks running.

Here's how we did it to keep all us n00bs in the same flow.....

Time limit per course: 10 minutes
Gates: 10 Gates per course
Points Per Gate: 10 points per gate... total of 100 points.
Penatlies: Penatlies can be incured by hitting the cones(-5 pts per cone) or bypassing a gate(-10 pts per)

We kept record of number of rollovers but only used that towards the end if two rigs had the same score... There were also the DNF's and Timed Out issues. Basicly if you broke you recived a DNF for the course. Recieved a Timed Out if you were going good but ran out of time before reaching the end of the course

This is about as far as we got due to it getting too confusing..plus we had the 2.2 and Clod/Maxx tire sizes running together. If there are both the 2.2 and larger rigs you have to have seperate classes!

I really think setting up rules for crawling is needed BUT it needs to be a universal setup(Aussie-USA-UK-etc.). Who knows what will happen in 2, 5, 10 years down the road...crawling my get more popular. We are setting the boundries and trends of what will come to be.

Did I mention not to mix 2.2 and the Clod/Maxx tire classes? It's awfull when a tiny little 2.2 tire rig spanks a gate and you have a hard time getting through with a Maxx size tire :P Also if a rig has more than 4 wheels it needs to have it's own class.....are you listening Ryan? Yeah, your 8x8 can't play with anyone else any more, it's just not fair

[Fishmaxx]

How about 24 for inches as a compromise.