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-   -   Holmes' Cliff Climber (http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/duratrax-cliff-climber/131769-holmes-cliff-climber.html)

JohnRobHolmes 08-17-2008 10:10 AM

Holmes' Cliff Climber
 
6 Attachment(s)
I received a Cliff Climber a few weeks back, and have been playing with it a while getting used to the stock setup. Generally I tear into stock trucks pretty fast and don't run them before screwing with them.

I have been very impressed with how quick Duratrax has modified the vehicle in small ways to improve the design AND is offering full product support in parts immediately. I also really love the body shape. :D


First impression: RTR comes in a nice carrying box and everything you need to run except Charger and batteries. I have a ton of electronics, so I may get another one in the Prebuilt form. It crawls very well for a crawler built by a company that hasn't been in the market previously. It is small enough to find obstacles anywhere, but capable enough that you can be surprised at how well it climbs (once the weight is moved lower at least). I am very impressed at the 4 link setup. While the center is a bit jacked up for my taste, the roll center and anti-squat of the rig is actually set up well.

Stock electronics certainly do the job. Servos handle the steering effort, and the motors and ESC are well suited for the task. It crawls very easy and controlled on one pack input, just short out the B1+ and B1- wires together. Then the second battery input can be used and the vehicle runs on a single pack. On two packs input (14.4v) the vehicle is very peppy, yet easy to crawl still.

Now time to modify it.

Current modifications:

Mamba Micro Pro ESC (brushed mode)
Cobalt Puller 454 motors
6s nimh input

Using just 6s nimh (elite 1500 cells) the weight on the chassis is decreased considerably, allowing much steeper climbing. The Cobalt puller motors offer a greater range of speed than stock while having more torque too. I had to shave a part of the mount bracket to clear the motors, and then I moved the lower links to the outside of the bracket. The Mamba Micro Pro is needed for the motors.


With this setup the vehicle is pretty fast. Fast enough to jump stuff. Just the way I like my crawlers :D It still creeps though, and it has more power than the rig can handle. After crawling for a while I went bashing through tall grass and got a front wheel tangled, stopping the rig fast and breaking a gear in the axle. This is because I was being stupid and full throttle gunning through two foot high grass. If I had used more discretion with my driving I wouldn't have broken. Good thing metal gears are on the way from DTX (as well as CVDs), and I can still get plastic gears.

All in all, I can't wait to get this rig running again and crawling! Future mods include 1.9 tires, removing the rear servo, moving the electronics lower, and possibly getting a new chassis.

Scattman 08-17-2008 10:13 AM

Is one of the links off on the axle end in the 3rd pic?

Loving the mini pullers. "thumbsup"

JohnRobHolmes 08-17-2008 10:18 AM

Good eye. It isn't off, just cocked since I outboarded one side but not the other. It isn't staying stock for long anyway. Very impressed with the handling though, with some better tires and a rear lockout it will be a very fun rig.

Bermbuster 08-17-2008 11:25 AM

Looking good..."thumbsup"
curious as why you used the black and white wire on the motor side of the esc....Castle Creations instructions say to use the red and black wire combination....
berm

JohnRobHolmes 08-17-2008 11:40 AM

It didn't work as per the instructions, so I used the white wire and it worked. I was kinda stumped, and I need to call Castle about it.

Good question!

SlickRockSpider 08-17-2008 12:50 PM

Cobalt Puller 454 motors
 
John

Great looking crawler "thumbsup" and the lid is really cool. I looked on your web site and I could not find cobalt puller 454 motors. Where can I purchase these wicked motors at.


Evan

twisted 08-17-2008 12:53 PM

in stock form how long did you get on one pack ?

JohnRobHolmes 08-17-2008 01:06 PM

I never managed to finish a pack in stock form. On a single pack 1500 I would guess at least an hour and a half of smooth crawling.

I can't manage to crawl more than an hour with any rig anyway. I either break, swap vehicles, get bored, or can't crawl that long because of time constraint.

DeaDShorT 08-17-2008 01:12 PM

I figured you'd have 2 esc's and a rear lockout already, and running on the stick radio.;-)

BritCrawler 08-17-2008 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes (Post 1306696)
It didn't work as per the instructions, so I used the white wire and it worked. I was kinda stumped, and I need to call Castle about it.

Good question!

What symptoms did you get from the ESC when it 'didn't work'? I hooked my new Sidewinder up on my AX-10 last week for the first time (on red and black) and it went scatty, even after I calibrated it on the handset I was using. It was banging back and forth between forward and reverse at full forward or reverse throttle, shaking and all sorts of crap. I was equally stumped...

Anyhoo, being a computer geek, I hooked the Castle Link to it and hooked it to the PC. I found they come set for 'Brushless' mode out of the box, and I was using a brushed motor (which I'll eventually be swapping out for one of yours :)). I just set it to 'Brushed Reversing' and saved the settings and it's worked flawlessly since then :)

JohnRobHolmes 08-17-2008 03:54 PM

It did absolutely nothing except blink at me, no tones from the motor at all. I knew it wasn't hooked up right so I chanced it and tried the white wire, then it sang the normal song on startup.

JohnRobHolmes 08-17-2008 04:11 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Outer axles swap out with AX-10 stuff. This axle just got very interesting indeed. The stock one is the longer one with the shallow dogbone cup. I replaced them with axial stubs and hexes to bring the track width in a bit from 9.75 to 9.25"

DeaDShorT 08-17-2008 04:39 PM

Did it increase the steering any?

JohnRobHolmes 08-17-2008 04:40 PM

Nope. Stock steers pretty sharp thanks to the shallow cup. I will report back on steering once I get the front done.

Shaun 08-17-2008 04:41 PM

Awesome, I'm planning on picking up a smaller crawler soon to play around with, I'm between the Losi and the Duratrax.I really like the set-up you have, nice work!"thumbsup"

jdawg53 08-19-2008 06:50 AM

Looks good John can't wait to try this setup myself.
J

cartronicshn 08-19-2008 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickRockSpider (Post 1306760)
John

Great looking crawler "thumbsup" and the lid is really cool. I looked on your web site and I could not find cobalt puller 454 motors. Where can I purchase these wicked motors at.


Evan

JRH, you didn't answer this very interesting question:), i would also like to get a couple for mine "thumbsup"
I also have a question, will a sidewinder work ok with these 2 little stock motors and a 3s?

JohnRobHolmes 08-19-2008 08:11 AM

The CP 454's are on my site now in the brushed motor section.

A sidewinder would work fine and be plenty overkill. 3s would be very fast though, as the motors are 2700kv. They could take the voltage, but at least in this vehicle it isn't needed.

cartronicshn 08-19-2008 08:35 AM

Thanks for the info JRH"thumbsup", i will be calling you later for some motors and batt packs for mine.

JavelinSST390 08-19-2008 05:08 PM

Thanks for all the info. Will you be offering any other motors for these, for those of us too cheap (or poor) to want to replace the stock ESC?

And what bare-minimum ESC would you recommend to power a pair of Cobalt 454's?

JohnRobHolmes 08-19-2008 05:17 PM

I am using the Mamba mini, but any brushed ESC will work.


I can't find anything any better than the stock motors that isn't MUCH better than the stock motors. The 2.3mm shaft kinda limits options too.

cartronicshn 08-20-2008 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes (Post 1309925)
I am using the Mamba mini, but any brushed ESC will work.


I can't find anything any better than the stock motors that isn't MUCH better than the stock motors. The 2.3mm shaft kinda limits options too.

I am confused, so the 454's are only slighlty better? i want to get some slower motors with more grunt on the low end.

JohnRobHolmes 08-20-2008 08:34 AM

The 454's are leaps and bounds above the stock motors. I just couldn't find anything in the middle. Either non-servicable stock motors or cobalts, nothing in between.

The 454's are about 2.7x faster than stock, but they can be run on low voltage and still have tons of torque.

cartronicshn 08-20-2008 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes (Post 1310651)
The 454's are leaps and bounds above the stock motors. I just couldn't find anything in the middle. Either non-servicable stock motors or cobalts, nothing in between.

The 454's are about 2.7x faster than stock, but they can be run on low voltage and still have tons of torque.

Understood and about to order"thumbsup"

kulangflow 08-21-2008 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes (Post 1306696)
It didn't work as per the instructions, so I used the white wire and it worked. I was kinda stumped, and I need to call Castle about it.

Good question!

I had the exact same thing happen with mine and used the same solution. I called Castle and they were stumped as well. I'm guessing they just had an odd batch that came out.

It works great now though with the "alternative wiring".

Mic 08-21-2008 10:42 AM

Do you think that the 454 would work in the Losi?

JohnRobHolmes 08-21-2008 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mic (Post 1312590)
Do you think that the 454 would work in the Losi?

No clue, I haven't seen a losi yet. I think it may be too big for it, and I don't know what pinion size the losi is either- nobody will take the time to tell me.

countryboy4life 08-21-2008 03:29 PM

Looks good JRH!!! "thumbsup""thumbsup" This should be on BYT...I think!!! :roll:

JohnRobHolmes 08-22-2008 07:42 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bar321 (Post 1313529)
why is it unpluged in to 2nd pic?????

Because they are poser shots. I had already broken the front gear by the time I got sense enough to take pics. Again, the breakage was my fault for having too much power and using it without discretion.

Well, since I was being a tool and broke a gear with some aftermarket power I decided to modify the truck a bit whilst it was taken apart. I just took the chassis off and bolted the axles up to a HBZ warthog tuber meant for an AX10. I used spare TLT kit links and emaxx ball ends for new linkages. I am waiting on parts from tower to get it driving again, parts I bought were extra gearsets, a ball bearing kit, extra dogbones, and the 11t pinions. I will be bringing it to the comp in KC for a play rig in the new form.

Once I get the electronics installed I will get some more flex from the added weight. This is more of a play rig than a comp rig, as the tuber is heavier than it needs to be for this little build. This puppy will be a wheelie machine now! But I will have to take it easy until the metal replacement parts are ready.


I really like this tuber with a short wheelbase. I will put body panels on later.

speedemall 08-22-2008 07:51 AM

holmes,do you have any vids of your cliff climber in action?I'd love to see one

JohnRobHolmes 08-22-2008 07:53 AM

Not yet, I will try and get one up soon.

axialscorpioncr 08-22-2008 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes (Post 1306598)
Good eye. It isn't off, just cocked since I outboarded one side but not the other. It isn't staying stock for long anyway. Very impressed with the handling though, with some better tires and a rear lockout it will be a very fun rig.

nice ride man
"thumbsup"

rn38 08-26-2008 01:27 AM

What about the reedy 380's?? I think those are rebuildable maybe rewindable. I know when I put 1 in my 18r it actually slowed down. Il'l check tomorrow if the its truely servicable.

twisted 08-26-2008 07:39 PM

they never redid the parts manual. the truck actually comes with 11t pinions.

JavelinSST390 08-26-2008 08:47 PM

Yeah, but they need like 8t or 9t pinions...

JRH, got a source?

JohnRobHolmes 08-27-2008 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rn38 (Post 1319253)
What about the reedy 380's?? I think those are rebuildable maybe rewindable. I know when I put 1 in my 18r it actually slowed down. Il'l check tomorrow if the its truely servicable.

Reedy only has 280 motors to my knowledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by JavelinSST390 (Post 1320360)
Yeah, but they need like 8t or 9t pinions...

JRH, got a source?

I am working on it, I am getting tooling made so my machinist can cut them for both the Berg and CC.

jdawg53 08-27-2008 06:07 AM

JRH
I ran the motors for a while yesterday. WOW! They are sick man. You weren't kidding about how fast they are, and the torque is awesome. I put them in my fully optioned kit so I will bring it along with me to the Nats next week.
I will call you later today.
J

rn38 08-27-2008 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes (Post 1320651)
Reedy only has 280 motors to my knowledge


You may be right I have to check what it is. hehehe

You are right!!!"thumbsup" Just assumed that since the 18r's were 370 cans and it fits that it was the same.

cartronicshn 08-28-2008 08:03 AM

John, did you get the parts for your truck yet? i would like to hear any more pointers and tips on your setup.

JohnRobHolmes 08-28-2008 08:09 AM

Yep, got them in. I just need to hack a few tubes off the frame so I can put lower shocks on there. Will do after breakfast.


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