RCCrawler Forums

sweli · 03-09-2009, 10:53 AM

The motor building is definitely a new thing for me.

Initial trial free-spin did not prove so well.
8.4v + LRP Micro
No spin.
Play with timing, keeping the bell loose.
Some slow spin the stop?

Then the brushes and comm glazed over.

Is 140 30ga too much on this motor?
I can rebuild the second one I have and wind it with 80 and see.
It is a pain in the A$$ though. The stock wire is 100% epoxied on! Takes an hour to get it off and clean up grind with the dremel.

Thoughts?
John H. where are you? The bat light is lit!

InFlames · 03-09-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweli

Three motors torn down and unwrapped.

TOP
Duratax 3pole. 140 turn +/-30ga. I tried to wrap 170 turns of 30ga. on one pole, second pole would not hold more then 100 turns then.

MIDDLE
Molon #CM0-1237 5 pole. +/-60 turn, +/-30ga. I started to wrap it with 100 turns of 30ga. Pole wraps on a 5pole overlap, so second poles wraps started to get too full again. Might try smaller ga. wire.

BOTTOM
Promax Neodym 370 PMX-3745 3pole. 45turns of 26ga(?). I wrapped this with 140 turns of 30ga. (shown).
Has neodym magnets, bearings, and replaceable brushes.
Shorter rotor.
2mm shaft size.
Had 'OK' torque, but was too fast on 8.4v.

More to come.

Cant wait to see what you come up with.

mwarner57 · 03-09-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom tom

Yes way, it's possibe. It's not a direct fit, you have to move the upper link and shock mounting location. I have the axle put together with the motor and redution as well as some extra badlands I have sitting around for mockup.

Photos please... I was thinking of using those same gear reductions, but took one look at that area and started getting a headache:-( I'm starting to think that using the Great Planes gearboxes would be a better idea, since they don't take up as much room. The issue with them is figuring out how to put a 2.3mm pinion on a 4mm output shaft. Maybe the wife will get me a micro lathe/mill for my birthday. Or some Berg axles

.

sweli · 03-09-2009, 01:04 PM

Got it spinning.
Approx zero timing (same speed fwd/rev) by sound only.
I fractured a pinion a few days ago and have two more on order. (cheap powdered metal versus cut)

Installed in in my CC on the rear axle with no motor on the front.
8.4v the speed is right on with the Novak 55T in my 2.2 shafty.
But the motor gets a little warm with just 5min run time (not blistering, you can still touch it). Not sure if the heat is the small 30ga wire offering resistance, the fact that this little motor is over geared for the size of the CC, too many turns, or I goofed something.

I have a used Mamba25 on the way, so I can up the cell count. Next try is at 12v.
I will try it with this 140turn Neodym 370, and the Molon 5 pole 60turn.

More to come.

sweli · 03-09-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom tom

Yes way, it's possibe. It's not a direct fit, you have to move the upper link and shock mounting location. I have the axle put together with the motor and redution as well as some extra badlands I have sitting around for mockup.

These Integy 2.5:1 boxes are for 540 cans, but wonder if the butt of the case would sit in place of the 380. It would move the motor up out of the way of the link mounts.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXSDF4&P=7

Or the wheely king ones, but they are 7.4:1 ratio.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXVLE9&P=7

sweli · 03-13-2009, 09:34 PM

The Molon #CM0-1237 motors on 7 cells were the right speed, but not quite the power.
The Promax 3745 (now 37140 [140turns]) runs well and has torque.

Got the Mamba25. Seller said it had latest firmware, but it doesn't. Crud....now I need a CastleLink to upgrade the firmware, to run brushed motors.
Got 10 cells packaged up on the chassis and waiting.
Got new pinions.

Have to find or borrow a Castlelink. Tomorrow I hope.

sweli · 03-17-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweli

The Molon #CM0-1237 motors on 7 cells were the right speed, but not quite the power.
Got the Mamba25.
Got 10 cells packaged up on the chassis and waiting.
Got new pinions.

#$&*^%$!@! I thnk I let the magic smoke out of the Mamba25!

10 cells
Updated firmware
settings for brushed motor, fwd+rev, etc etc
the CMO-1237 motors.

ONE (yes only one) motor hooked up, and the Mamba got so hot from 5 trigger squeezes that it blackened the clear shrink wrap.
Now I only have reverse.

I need to run it on my meter again, but with one of those motors directly connected to a 9.6v source, they only pulled 3.2A free spinning the axle.

STANG KILLA SS · 03-17-2009, 01:51 PM

hmm well keep at it, your our only hope!

doubletrouble · 03-17-2009, 06:15 PM

Ya, somebody needs to figure out a good motor for these things. :-P

sweli · 03-17-2009, 07:59 PM

So I just remeasured the draw on these two 5pole, 60turn 380s.

0.42A per motor when spinning the full drivetrane and weighted wheels/tires.
So that is 0.84A.

It shoots to 3.4A with the axle stalled. So +/- 7A stalled.
And it let the smoke out of a running Mamba 25.

I do not get it.
I have an email into them, inquiring. Not worth fixing though. Still has Rev.

Won't happen again (I hope). Going OVERKILL. Novak Superduty XR should be on the way tomorrow.
Good to 14 cells. These motors should not even get it warm.

sweli · 03-17-2009, 08:03 PM

BTW, going to take me a bit to find time to get back to this.
2" of water was covering 1200sq ft of carpeted basement, and another 400 ft of storage and shop, couple days ago. Still far from back to normal.

Wet cardboard - yuk!
Ins. just covered it, after the deductable big enough for 2-4 nice rigs! Crap.....LOL.

spartacus_nuc · 03-18-2009, 02:07 PM

I just ordered some mabuchi RS-380PH motors, and after looking at the specs, it seems that they might work.
DC motors

MODEL		VOLTAGE	NO LOAD		STALL			DIMENSION
		NOMINAL	SPEED	CURRENT	TORQUE		CURRENT	DIMENSION
		V	r/min	A	mN·m	g·cm	A	mm
RS-380PH	4045	10.5	21900	0.70	94.1	959	21.7	φ29.2×37.8
RS-380PH	3270	12	15200	0.34	93.1	949	14.0	φ29.2×37.8

They have the same dimensions of the CC5000's, and they are in the mail now. These are the highest torque numbers I have seen for a 380 size motor. If they work, I will have some extras, since I bought it a a lot of 25 on ebay.

JohnRobHolmes · 03-18-2009, 02:23 PM

The only problem with the cheaper motors is that one axle will be running the motor at negative timing. Most mabuchi has anywhere from 7 to 21 degrees of timing.

STANG KILLA SS · 03-21-2009, 02:26 PM

i just had an idea at today comp while watching the 1.9 class. what about taking the MRC stock motors, and drill/taping new holes to fit the CC bolt pattern? not sure what shaft size they have. google didnt know either.

sweli · 03-21-2009, 06:00 PM

What KV are the MRC motors?

STANG KILLA SS · 03-21-2009, 06:15 PM

no clue. but designed for 6 cells, is what i like so i can get rid of that crap esc. ive had a rooster crawler ready to go in, but would be dumb on stock motors with 6 cells cause it would be slow as mollasas and no power to get over a pebble. kinda like the single battery mod/jumper.

from losi's site:
"High-torque Mini-Rock Crawler motor designed specifically for crawling. Engineered to provide the low-speed torque needed for serious rock crawling, the Losi Mini-Rock Crawler electric motor"

still cant find what the shaft diameter is...

fixed13 · 03-22-2009, 01:23 PM

I believe Losi motors have a 2mm shaft.

sweli · 03-22-2009, 02:07 PM

I was playing with other Promaxx 370's that have a 2mm shaft. 1-1/2 times around the shaft with foil tape made up the difference.
We need the 9T 2mm pinions from the shop in Korea. John RH, are you buying up some for resale?

sweli · 03-23-2009, 08:02 PM

Novak SuperDuty XR, 10 2/3A cells (old, charge to 900ma),

...and the Molon #CM0-1237 5 pole motors.
Good speed for crawling, enough to give some wheel speed when you want it.
Not enough torque though. About the same as stock on 7cells.

...and one of my hand wrapped Promax 45T Cobalt 370 (140T), in the rear axle, front empty.
Good speed for crawling.
In reverse could climb up and over my legs (front wheel drive of sorts).
Motor got pretty hot running for 10mins.
I think 140turns of 30ga is a bit much.
I bet 90turns of 26ga would work better. That is next.

Before I tear into the second Promax, I am going to leave it stock at 45T, and wait for the 9T pinions.
This is taking tooooo long to make this thing a crawler.

Got my BMV 2.2 out and ran it around just for fun, so I don't throw tools around the workroom. LOL.

spartacus_nuc · 03-23-2009, 09:56 PM

Just got the RS-380PH's in the mail, soldered 'em on, and with 2.2 flat irons, speed is perfect!!! Torque is way better, but it will still stall a little. I'm gonna play with the axle angle and wheelbase to see if that might help with the stall. These motors may not be perfect, but they seem to be a step in the right direction, and may turn out to work well on the rocks.

03-09-2009, 10:53 AM	#21
sweli RCC Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 1,898	Hmmmm? The motor building is definitely a new thing for me. Initial trial free-spin did not prove so well. 8.4v + LRP Micro No spin. Play with timing, keeping the bell loose. Some slow spin the stop? Then the brushes and comm glazed over. Is 140 30ga too much on this motor? I can rebuild the second one I have and wind it with 80 and see. It is a pain in the A$$ though. The stock wire is 100% epoxied on! Takes an hour to get it off and clean up grind with the dremel. Thoughts? John H. where are you? The bat light is lit!

03-17-2009, 07:59 PM	#30
sweli RCC Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 1,898	Smokeless Mamba 25 So I just remeasured the draw on these two 5pole, 60turn 380s. 0.42A per motor when spinning the full drivetrane and weighted wheels/tires. So that is 0.84A. It shoots to 3.4A with the axle stalled. So +/- 7A stalled. And it let the smoke out of a running Mamba 25. I do not get it. I have an email into them, inquiring. Not worth fixing though. Still has Rev. Won't happen again (I hope). Going OVERKILL. Novak Superduty XR should be on the way tomorrow. Good to 14 cells. These motors should not even get it warm.

03-09-2009, 01:04 PM	#24
sweli RCC Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 1,898	Got it spinning. Approx zero timing (same speed fwd/rev) by sound only. I fractured a pinion a few days ago and have two more on order. (cheap powdered metal versus cut) Installed in in my CC on the rear axle with no motor on the front. 8.4v the speed is right on with the Novak 55T in my 2.2 shafty. But the motor gets a little warm with just 5min run time (not blistering, you can still touch it). Not sure if the heat is the small 30ga wire offering resistance, the fact that this little motor is over geared for the size of the CC, too many turns, or I goofed something. I have a used Mamba25 on the way, so I can up the cell count. Next try is at 12v. I will try it with this 140turn Neodym 370, and the Molon 5 pole 60turn. More to come.

03-13-2009, 09:34 PM	#26
sweli RCC Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 1,898	The Molon #CM0-1237 motors on 7 cells were the right speed, but not quite the power. The Promax 3745 (now 37140 [140turns]) runs well and has torque. Got the Mamba25. Seller said it had latest firmware, but it doesn't. Crud....now I need a CastleLink to upgrade the firmware, to run brushed motors. Got 10 cells packaged up on the chassis and waiting. Got new pinions. Have to find or borrow a Castlelink. Tomorrow I hope.

03-17-2009, 01:51 PM	#28
STANG KILLA SS ~THE SCALE SHOP~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: KILLEEN TX Posts: 10,056	hmm well keep at it, your our only hope!

03-17-2009, 06:15 PM	#29
doubletrouble Quarry Creeper Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Milliken,CO Posts: 234	Ya, somebody needs to figure out a good motor for these things. :-P

03-17-2009, 08:03 PM	#31
sweli RCC Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 1,898	BTW, going to take me a bit to find time to get back to this. 2" of water was covering 1200sq ft of carpeted basement, and another 400 ft of storage and shop, couple days ago. Still far from back to normal. Wet cardboard - yuk! Ins. just covered it, after the deductable big enough for 2-4 nice rigs! Crap.....LOL.

03-18-2009, 02:23 PM	#33
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	The only problem with the cheaper motors is that one axle will be running the motor at negative timing. Most mabuchi has anywhere from 7 to 21 degrees of timing.

03-21-2009, 02:26 PM	#34
STANG KILLA SS ~THE SCALE SHOP~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: KILLEEN TX Posts: 10,056	i just had an idea at today comp while watching the 1.9 class. what about taking the MRC stock motors, and drill/taping new holes to fit the CC bolt pattern? not sure what shaft size they have. google didnt know either.

03-21-2009, 06:00 PM	#35
sweli RCC Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 1,898	What KV are the MRC motors?

03-21-2009, 06:15 PM	#36
STANG KILLA SS ~THE SCALE SHOP~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: KILLEEN TX Posts: 10,056	no clue. but designed for 6 cells, is what i like so i can get rid of that crap esc. ive had a rooster crawler ready to go in, but would be dumb on stock motors with 6 cells cause it would be slow as mollasas and no power to get over a pebble. kinda like the single battery mod/jumper. from losi's site: "High-torque Mini-Rock Crawler motor designed specifically for crawling. Engineered to provide the low-speed torque needed for serious rock crawling, the Losi Mini-Rock Crawler electric motor" still cant find what the shaft diameter is...

03-22-2009, 01:23 PM	#37
fixed13 Rock Crawler Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: St. Cloud Posts: 632	I believe Losi motors have a 2mm shaft.

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03-22-2009, 02:07 PM	#38
sweli RCC Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 1,898	I was playing with other Promaxx 370's that have a 2mm shaft. 1-1/2 times around the shaft with foil tape made up the difference. We need the 9T 2mm pinions from the shop in Korea. John RH, are you buying up some for resale?

03-23-2009, 08:02 PM	#39
sweli RCC Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 1,898	Novak SuperDuty XR, 10 2/3A cells (old, charge to 900ma), ...and the Molon #CM0-1237 5 pole motors. Good speed for crawling, enough to give some wheel speed when you want it. Not enough torque though. About the same as stock on 7cells. ...and one of my hand wrapped Promax 45T Cobalt 370 (140T), in the rear axle, front empty. Good speed for crawling. In reverse could climb up and over my legs (front wheel drive of sorts). Motor got pretty hot running for 10mins. I think 140turns of 30ga is a bit much. I bet 90turns of 26ga would work better. That is next. Before I tear into the second Promax, I am going to leave it stock at 45T, and wait for the 9T pinions. This is taking tooooo long to make this thing a crawler. Got my BMV 2.2 out and ran it around just for fun, so I don't throw tools around the workroom. LOL.

03-23-2009, 09:56 PM	#40
spartacus_nuc Rock Stacker Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Titusville Posts: 83	Just got the RS-380PH's in the mail, soldered 'em on, and with 2.2 flat irons, speed is perfect!!! Torque is way better, but it will still stall a little. I'm gonna play with the axle angle and wheelbase to see if that might help with the stall. These motors may not be perfect, but they seem to be a step in the right direction, and may turn out to work well on the rocks.

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