Is this a crawler motor for the C.C. ?

[mulepic]

Thanks spartacus for staying committed to solving this. I was holding off on purchasing a CC b/c of the motors. Do you think you'll be able to provide details of what you did to someone like me who has never rewound a motor? I'm also hopeful that you figure out how to slow it down. But maybe the option of a 9t pinion will solve that.

[spartacus_nuc]

The 9T pinion will definitely help, but when I tried to show off the awesomeness of my CC to my wife, just driving it inside, the front motor ate the idler gear. They are fast, but they still have TONS of torque. Also, winding more carefully, I managed to get 110 turns on another motor, but I don't have enough magnet wire to wind another.

[STANG KILLA SS]

sweet i may try those.
shaft is a little big but that can be solved.
your getting closer and closer to a great 14.4 motor sounds like.
then you can start on 7.2 motors so we can use normal esc with drag brakes and low cost (ie 7-8 max nimh cell count esc we all have laying around) i dont want to run a esc that costs more than the truck lol! plus i LOVE my rooster crawlers, my comp Super has them.

if youll provide a link, id be glad to send you some wire.

[sweli]

Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS

what voltage you run them at?
if i sent you some stockers, could you wind me a a torqy motor for 7.2V with less wheel speed than stock? and more or equal torque to the stock 5000 on 14.4?

When I unwrapped one of the stock 5000 motors on mine a few weeks back (page 1 of this post) I found it had almost 140 turns on it. I threw the wire away, but it seemed smaller then the 30ga I was trying to wrap back on it.
I could only get 100 turns on it, so gave up after the first pole. Might go back to it.

The Promax 3745 Neodym 370 motors I have might work out. The old cheap 2/3A sells I packaged on the axles in a 6+4 configuration are not doing the job though. I have them charging now and hope to try again.
They have adjustable timing and were advance in stock form. Used a meter to get them zero'd.
Initially there does not seem to be a lot of torque difference between the +/-26ga 45T stock motor, and the one I rewrapped to 140T with 30ga.
I might try 90T of 28ga.

[spartacus_nuc]

Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS

sweet i may try those.
shaft is a little big but that can be solved.
your getting closer and closer to a great 14.4 motor sounds like.
then you can start on 7.2 motors so we can use normal esc with drag brakes and low cost (ie 7-8 max nimh cell count esc we all have laying around) i dont want to run a esc that costs more than the truck lol! plus i LOVE my rooster crawlers, my comp Super has them.

if youll provide a link, id be glad to send you some wire.

From radio shack, this is what I have been using:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search

Lots of 30ga for cheap!
http://www.allspectrum.com/store/pro...oducts_id=2675
Lots of 28ga for cheap!
http://www.allspectrum.com/store/pro...+CONWIRE-28MAG

As far as ESC, I got a traxxas EVX-2 for $71 shipped on ebay. Brand new. That ESC will handle anything I throw at it and will definitely help testing motors as I will not not have any fear of frying the speedo. And its waterproof, just doesn't have a drag brake.

[STANG KILLA SS]

drag break is a must.
my end goal is a full on comp rig.

so what gauge would be the best bet to build a 7.2v motor?

[STANG KILLA SS]

Originally Posted by spartacus_nuc

I would have to start over trying different wire sizes and #turns to get it right for 7.2V. If you send them with a few rolls of magnet wire for my trouble, sure. Either 26,27, or 28 gauge should work for 7.2V, but I think you should try this first: http://www.goldmine-elec-products.co...?number=G16473 it would be very close to what I would try anyway. here's the specs: http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-b...AT_ID=rs_380ph
I didn't consider this motor because it would be WAY too fast at 14.4V, but at 8.2V (realistic fully charged 6 cell pack) it makes over 1000 gm-cm of torque before it stalls. Don't worry about the -PH or -SH at the end of the motor designation, it's only for anisotropic or segmented magnets.

if the 5000 on the stock motors stands for 5000 rpms per volt( anyone know if thats what it stands for?) then these motors would be exactly half as fast (16200 divided by 7.2v= 2250) that could be too slow?

[spartacus_nuc]

My initial calculations point to 27ga wire being ideal, and 26ga wire being close since odd gauges are harder to find in small spools, i.e. less than a 10lb roll. I just got another pack of wire from radio shack, so I have plenty of 26ga wire. I think the 5000 on the stockers does stand for kv, but like you, I am not certain. I am still waiting for the long can 400's, and I am almost satisfied with rs-380's 14.4V performance. I will probably start experimenting with 7.2V this weekend. Also, awg sizes are listed for bare wire, so the 140 turns of 30ga on the stockers may be off by a couple sizes due to the thickness of the insulation, especially at such a small size. Measuring my magnet wire, the size is off by 1 gauge due to the insulation. Duratrax may have spec'd a motor with thicker or thinner insulation, so there is no telling. I have not torn apart a stocker yet since I have so many rs-380's to experiment on. Another factor is the magnet strength. I have no idea whether the magnets in the stockers are stronger or weaker than the rs-380's I have been experimenting with. The bad thing is that I have to wind 2 motors to test a new wind because I go drive it on rocks to test them, and winding these motors is rather tedious, but I will find a solution for the 7.2V crowd as I want to use a drag brake too.

[spartacus_nuc]

Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS

if the 5000 on the stock motors stands for 5000 rpms per volt( anyone know if thats what it stands for?) then these motors would be exactly half as fast (16200 divided by 7.2v= 2250) that could be too slow?

At 7.2V the rs-380ph-4045 would spin at 15000 no load. It's not a kv rating but the actual no load rpm. At max power (36.5 watts) they spin a little over 7000 rpm, so the speed should be good and they will stall at about 950 gm-cm torque. Figure thes values to be a little low since real voltage of a fully charged 6 cell pack is closer to 8.4V fresh off the charger. I use a duratrax ice and a great planes triton 2, and they take good care of my batteries.

[STANG KILLA SS]

well i just ordered two of them thanks to your advice

they require a $10 minimum order, so i ordered one of these to make my 10 bucks
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.co...?number=G15865

shipping was $7
total shipped: $18.45

[spartacus_nuc]

Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS

well i just ordered two of them thanks to your advice

they require a $10 minimum order, so i ordered one of these to make my 10 bucks
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.co...?number=G15865

shipping was $7
total shipped: $18.45

I hope they work out well. If they do, there will be no need for me to experiment with lower voltage motors. If they don't work out, make sure you take them apart and count the winds just to make sure they are exactly as advertised. They should have 45 turns of 0.40mm wire. I might order some too........

[STANG KILLA SS]

if they dont work out as-is, ill send them to you.

[spartacus_nuc]

Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS

if they dont work out as-is, ill send them to you.

Well then don't worry about taking them apart. If they are indeed the same wind advertised and don't perform well, depending on your rating of their performance, I'll have a good starting point. I still think they'll work, though.

[spartacus_nuc]

I just tested the 110 turn motors on my rock pile....NO STALL AT ALL!!! Before, with the 90 turn motors, the rear would stall very little, now if it slows down, I just give it a little more throttle and it climbs right over. The speed is still too fast, so I'm going to try 32ga wire and see how many turns I can get out of it. That will raise the torque constant of the motors, and hopefully offset the theoretical lower stall torque. I would still rather find a drop in replacement since I hate rewinding the motors, but my crawler will be tested on a 'difficult for scorpion' rock pile today. My wife's MRC inherited the tires from my CC after I put the flat irons on it, and they seem to help that truck out very well. She tried it with the scorpion tires, and they were too big and looked comical, but the CC stock tires are a little smaller than the average 2.2. I will post results of the encounter with the comp rocks later today. My scorpion is still down due to a broken c hub and unreliable ordering from my LHS. The high speed wouldn't be nearly as bad if I took one my spektrum receivers out of something and got steering expo on my CC, but I need them for my race vehicles.

[InFlames]

spartacus_nuc, if you did end up finding a motor that can be modified for perfect wheel speed and torque, can us less inclinded people possibly pay you for modded motors? Like cover the cost of the motors, wire, labor, ect. I would be interested in buying some off you, because i dont think i would be able to rewind my own motors, i have no patience at all...

[jdbugman]

I am over in Sanford, fl and i am getting ready to buy one of these CCs. I have a bunch of radioshack propulse cars and i was thinking that 2 of the stock motors would work they are realy powerfull. also there is the graupner line of speed motors. they are realy powerfull and small in size. low rpm too and low voltage, I am running the speed 330 on 13.8 volts in a ducted fan jet and wow is that thing powerfull. i have tryed it in the propulse and at 7.2 it was way to slow even with a huge pinion.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/edward....s/graupner.htm

[addictedtonitro]

Originally Posted by Robb

This should really bake your noodle.

https://www.cermark.com/products/Cob...13-turns).html

I wonder if anyone has tried this one yet?

[sweli]

Emailed them. They are slow to respond.

What they told me so far:
Diameter 27mm
Length 38mm
Weight 2.5oz
Shaft 2.3mm
Cells 6.7
Volts 7.2-9.6

I have asked stall torque, and speed at a given voltage twice, but have not gotten that info.
Given they are 13turns, I would bet you would need to re-wrap them with more.
I wonder how accurate the 38mm dim is?

Tempted. I have spent tooooo much time and money on this thing so far. Still like shafty's better.

[jdbugman]

I have two of those motors I use them in planes they are just like the ones from holmes. I have tryed them in my rc trucks and they have such a wicked startup. you realy have to lay the power on them to get them to start turning. but once they do look out. they are super powerfull. I have had them in boats and planes but in these you set them to a power band in and very rarely start/stop the motor. in my trucks they just destroyed the drivetrains.

I would rather use one of these

http://banebots.com/c/MS-25XXX-180

that way it has a smooth start up and smooth power yet still has axle snapping tourqe

[sweli]

Jdbugman:
I would rather use one of these
http://banebots.com/c/MS-25XXX-180
that way it has a smooth start up and smooth power yet still has axle snapping tourqe

Nice specs, but the length is killing us with the CC. Need to stay under about 38mm long. with the gearbox on them (or the 370+gearbox Banebots have), the length is 53(62)mm.
Got that in a 90deg gearbox?

Thx for the chime in though!