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Thread: Sensored Outrunner motors- Revolver S

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Old 09-22-2008, 02:57 PM   #21
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Holy crap these are small!! I got some larger ones, but the motor will need modification for the largers.
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:21 PM   #22
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Holy crap these are small!! I got some larger ones, but the motor will need modification for the largers.

Dang, are you gonna solder three wires to that????
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:24 PM   #23
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Wow that is tiny, drop one of those on carpet and you aren't ever going to find it

I can't wait to hear more about this.
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:37 PM   #24
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I'm gonna try. I will probably use magnet wire, and make up a tip to be so small.
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:41 PM   #25
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You can do it!
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:44 PM   #26
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That's gonna be interesting to see, cause I know I could turn that thing into vapor in less than a second with my soldering skillz.
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:59 PM   #27
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Nothing will change about performance, except the slow speed startup. This should bring the average outrunner motor from 200 to 500rpm startup down to 10rpm or so, depending on magnet strength and consistency.
That sounds awesome

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Holy crap these are small!! I got some larger ones, but the motor will need modification for the largers.
Amazing.

Best of luck to you JRH! If anyone can make it happen you could.

Now will these same motors work with a Mamba Max? Or would they require a different ESC to control them?
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Old 09-22-2008, 05:09 PM   #28
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I'm gonna try. I will probably use magnet wire, and make up a tip to be so small.
I have some 30 awg Kynar I could send you.
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Old 09-23-2008, 04:54 AM   #29
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Now will these same motors work with a Mamba Max? Or would they require a different ESC to control them?

the mamba is not sensor baised so it wont work. it will still turn and everything but it wont be able to have the sensors opreational
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:01 AM   #30
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I can't wait john, sensored outrunners would be the ultimate brushless crawler motor period.

I think the only reason that novak and the like haven't done it was because it would be a totally new line for them and the only market for sensored outrunners is crawlers. So for them not a big enough market to be viable.

Basically the majority of brushless motors for hobby use are sensorless. In an aero application the static load on a motor is minimal so startup torque required is very little, planes and helis would see no benefit from sensors.

Rc car motors is where the startup torque and precise braking is usefull and so sensored motors have been designed and marketed for onroad cars etc, these motors obviously need to be fast and have a high KV so low turn inrunner sensored motors is the norm.

Novak were able to create the Goat cheaply by using the 540 inrunner sensored platform that they already had and wind a couple of high turn 540bl and call them crawler motors. They reprogrammed the esc and there you go a new product, but really a BL inrunner is a compromise for crawling but it's the only style of sensored motor avail.

Good luck to you john, the market for these will be huge and will see the end of sensorless aero outrunners (and possibly lathes) used in crawlers.
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Old 09-24-2008, 10:24 AM   #31
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JohnRobHolmes,

I found this topic using Google. I am using Hacker Outrunners for a Robotic Project in my lab at Northeastern University in Boston. I need low speed control and will also work on sensoring the outrunners. I have a lot of resources including full CNC and Rapid Prototyping here at the school so we should share notes. I ordered a Novak Goat Crawler System and am planning to break apart the Novak motor and integrate their sensors (or equivalent ones) into the outrunner. I will know more after I receive everything and start playing.

Cheers

Max



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I have talked to a few manufacturers about sensored outrunner motors. Nobody wants to touch it really, and I don't blame them since outrunner manufacturers generally have nothing to do with sensor based motors. I happened to run across a guy who is building his own sensored DC motor controller, and he is converting a large outrunner to sensor based commutation since it is easier than building a sensorless controller.

I took apart a Tekin sensored motor today to find that it uses 120 degree separation of hall sensors. I also ordered some sensors from digikey http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=480-1999-ND

Hopefully I can fit the sensors between the teeth on the stator with no modifications. I don't know if I will use a Revolver Black motor or the Crawlmaster first. At any rate, this will be a good project. Here is the diagram that was made to determine where the sensors should go. Basically they will be spaced 120 degrees apart and placed between the phase winds.


This is all a bit beyond my comprehension, so I am going to hope for a bit of luck on this. I will use the Tekin RS speed control for first testing. If this pans out we could have sensored outrunners!
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:28 AM   #32
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The novak sensors are designed around a 12mm rotor, 120 degres spacing I think. I have everthing ready to go here, just gotta fit the sensors in my motor now. It will be guesswork to which coil is part of which phase. I have a 50/50 chance of getting it right the first time.
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:45 AM   #33
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Fingers crossed for ya guys History in the making !!!
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:47 AM   #34
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The novak sensors are designed around a 12mm rotor, 120 degres spacing I think. I have everthing ready to go here, just gotta fit the sensors in my motor now. It will be guesswork to which coil is part of which phase. I have a 50/50 chance of getting it right the first time.

the hacker motor that i am going to try to integrate them into has a ~24mm diameter rotor. do you think the novak system will be incompatible due to the difference in rotor sizes?
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Old 09-24-2008, 01:12 PM   #35
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You probably wont get readings from the magnets, or they will be innacurate. Depends on how the rotor is made. Does the hacker have an iron stator ring, or is it iron free?
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Old 09-24-2008, 01:35 PM   #36
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You probably wont get readings from the magnets, or they will be innacurate. Depends on how the rotor is made. Does the hacker have an iron stator ring, or is it iron free?
not sure, i will disassemble the outrunner tomorrow and check.....
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Old 09-24-2008, 01:43 PM   #37
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they have iron stator rings , slotless

like Feigao and co.











its not a Hacker motor ;)
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Old 09-24-2008, 01:47 PM   #38
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Gonna be hard to find the proper position for the sensors on that hacker.
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Old 09-24-2008, 02:05 PM   #39
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Gonna be hard to find the proper position for the sensors on that hacker.
picture of one of the hacker motors that i have used in the past. the one that i need to sensor is much smaller.....



video of the robotic joint that is under development if anyone is interested...

https://myfiles.neu.edu/b.weinberg/p...to%20v1%20.mpg

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Old 09-24-2008, 02:12 PM   #40
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Ah, outrunner. Should be easy then.
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