RCCrawler Forums

44newman · 09-03-2009, 12:17 AM

The suspence is killing me. Ive been following this thread, and the wait for updates is agonizing. I love it .
I just bought a slightly used Tekin RS, $125. Soooo...
I should probably buy a Temp motor, untill this thing is available.
Any suggestions?
Novak 21.5
Outrunner?

JohnRobHolmes · 09-03-2009, 08:24 AM

A 17.5 sensored motor is always nice.

Thorsteenster · 09-03-2009, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

It may not have drag brake on a novak

Damn, I hope this doesn't end up being the case.
:?

JohnRobHolmes · 09-03-2009, 08:50 AM

The first version at least. There is a pin that can be jumped from negative or positive to solve the issue. Novak uses a resistor on one of the wires to determine whether it is a "crawler" motor or not.

SVEN · 09-03-2009, 11:34 AM

I know it is smaller (which would make it harder), but is there any way to make a sensored outrunner in a Losi MRC size?

JohnRobHolmes · 09-03-2009, 11:38 AM

maybe so. I was planning a 22mm stator motor next. May be too big for the MRC, but we shall see.

Thorsteenster · 09-03-2009, 12:20 PM

So will this somewhat eliminate how well an outrunner works with a particular ESC? Startup, cogging, etc.......

JohnRobHolmes · 09-03-2009, 12:29 PM

Correct. The design will start up smoother with sensorless as well, but with a sensored ESC you won't be able to tell what kind of motor you are driving- besides a powerful and controllable one.

JohnRobHolmes · 10-01-2009, 03:53 PM

Just got it in and did some testing. The design was modified in two ways from my specification, for manufacturing reasons. These two ways make it useless as a sensored outrunner, one mistake in particular is the big one. It runs fine forward, but not at all reverse.

I will have to get another one made, and insist that they keep my design. Or if they can't make it to my specs I will have to start from scratch.

Nova's Ark · 10-01-2009, 04:04 PM

That sucks:-(. I am so looking forward to this. I love outrunner motors. If only they could start up like sensored brushless. Please keep up the great work JRH.

JohnRobHolmes · 10-01-2009, 07:16 PM

I have a few modifications I can do to the can to make it work I think. I have just sat around for an hour or so pondering the construction.

Flip · 10-01-2009, 07:51 PM

First off let me say that if you can pull this off successfuly, more power to you John.

Years back I needed a waterproof, sensored, shaftless, brushless outrunner that needed to have a 3" hole thru the stator, a 5" outer diameter stator. The rotor would run on a circular V-groove rail with V-bearings, all this to turn smoothly from 10 RPM to 500 RPM. The project eventually got shelved when I realized I would need a second mortgage to pay for custom made magnets and custom made stator laminations. I'm not saying that the project is forgotten but as technology advances better solutions to the problem make themselves known.

Which brought me to another idea. My initial idea was to put a stator on the axle shaft and place the magnets in the inside of the rim. That then gaveway to why not put a brushless motor on each wheel coupled to a planetary gearbox. You want to keep the weight low and at the wheels (right), no more shafts, high center clearance, independant suspension, built in dig and it could be done from a computerized radio. The second idea requires more parts and money but I think it's more do-able.

1:1 monster trucks use a planetary gearbox as a hub for the wheel rim to bolt on to. This is how they stopped breaking so many drivetrain components. Replace the axle shaft input with a brushless motor.

I'm starting to ramble on here, time for my meds.

JohnRobHolmes · 10-01-2009, 07:57 PM

I have had that idea before, in a few different versions. I have thought about putting a bike hub motor on each wheel. 8" tires would be right at 6mph on 36v. It would be easy in one way, but the electrics would be a bear tying together without some big work.

44newman · 10-01-2009, 11:04 PM

So you mentioned using a Tekin RS for this project . What would be your next choice of ESC, that is for sensored motors and do 3s ?

JohnRobHolmes · 10-02-2009, 05:49 AM

Second choice would be a mamba max pro (in development) or a novak goat unit.

44newman · 10-06-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Second choice would be a mamba max pro (in development) or a novak goat unit.

The Goat 3s is only compatible with thermal overload protected motors. Does this mean they wont work with a outrunner or inrunner of another brand?
Do you think the new mamba will be the same way?

JohnRobHolmes · 10-07-2009, 06:40 AM

No clue on either front. The goat should work with other motors, but the one I tested was an older model so things may have changed.

44newman · 10-07-2009, 08:08 AM

About 1/2 way down the page is a title Motor Compatabitity. There is a couple short paragraphs on it and a link to a list of Novak motors that will work. Short list really.
http://www.teamnovak.com/products/es..._3s/index.html

JohnRobHolmes · 10-07-2009, 08:15 AM

I am pretty sure the Goat motors just have a resistor on that lead, and the normal Roar style motors have a little thermistor instead.

JohnRobHolmes · 10-07-2009, 08:24 AM

Yeah, pin 5 is a 10k thermistor. They don't specify anything else about it.

10-07-2009, 08:24 AM	#120
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	Yeah, pin 5 is a 10k thermistor. They don't specify anything else about it. Attached Images

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/electronics/136315-sensored-outrunner-motors-revolver-s.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date
Outrunner for rock crawler - Kv and low-speed smoothness, is my theory sound? - RC Groups	This thread	Refback	10-07-2011 12:03 AM

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09-03-2009, 12:17 AM	#101
44newman Rock Stacker Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Eastern Oregon Posts: 65	The suspence is killing me. Ive been following this thread, and the wait for updates is agonizing. I love it . I just bought a slightly used Tekin RS, $125. Soooo... I should probably buy a Temp motor, untill this thing is available. Any suggestions? Novak 21.5 Outrunner?

09-03-2009, 08:24 AM	#102
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	A 17.5 sensored motor is always nice.

09-03-2009, 08:50 AM	#104
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	The first version at least. There is a pin that can be jumped from negative or positive to solve the issue. Novak uses a resistor on one of the wires to determine whether it is a "crawler" motor or not.

09-03-2009, 11:34 AM	#105
SVEN I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Burnsville Posts: 3,096	I know it is smaller (which would make it harder), but is there any way to make a sensored outrunner in a Losi MRC size?

09-03-2009, 11:38 AM	#106
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	maybe so. I was planning a 22mm stator motor next. May be too big for the MRC, but we shall see.

09-03-2009, 12:20 PM	#107
Thorsteenster I wanna be Dave Join Date: May 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 3,377	So will this somewhat eliminate how well an outrunner works with a particular ESC? Startup, cogging, etc.......

09-03-2009, 12:29 PM	#108
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	Correct. The design will start up smoother with sensorless as well, but with a sensored ESC you won't be able to tell what kind of motor you are driving- besides a powerful and controllable one.

10-01-2009, 03:53 PM	#109
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	Just got it in and did some testing. The design was modified in two ways from my specification, for manufacturing reasons. These two ways make it useless as a sensored outrunner, one mistake in particular is the big one. It runs fine forward, but not at all reverse. I will have to get another one made, and insist that they keep my design. Or if they can't make it to my specs I will have to start from scratch.

10-01-2009, 04:04 PM	#110
Nova's Ark Tire&Foam Extraordinaire Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: C.I. Compound, Tyler, Texas Posts: 5,601	That sucks:-(. I am so looking forward to this. I love outrunner motors. If only they could start up like sensored brushless. Please keep up the great work JRH.

10-01-2009, 07:16 PM	#111
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	I have a few modifications I can do to the can to make it work I think. I have just sat around for an hour or so pondering the construction.

Sponsored Links

10-01-2009, 07:51 PM	#112
Flip Quarry Creeper Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: St. Louis Posts: 267	First off let me say that if you can pull this off successfuly, more power to you John. Years back I needed a waterproof, sensored, shaftless, brushless outrunner that needed to have a 3" hole thru the stator, a 5" outer diameter stator. The rotor would run on a circular V-groove rail with V-bearings, all this to turn smoothly from 10 RPM to 500 RPM. The project eventually got shelved when I realized I would need a second mortgage to pay for custom made magnets and custom made stator laminations. I'm not saying that the project is forgotten but as technology advances better solutions to the problem make themselves known. Which brought me to another idea. My initial idea was to put a stator on the axle shaft and place the magnets in the inside of the rim. That then gaveway to why not put a brushless motor on each wheel coupled to a planetary gearbox. You want to keep the weight low and at the wheels (right), no more shafts, high center clearance, independant suspension, built in dig and it could be done from a computerized radio. The second idea requires more parts and money but I think it's more do-able. 1:1 monster trucks use a planetary gearbox as a hub for the wheel rim to bolt on to. This is how they stopped breaking so many drivetrain components. Replace the axle shaft input with a brushless motor. I'm starting to ramble on here, time for my meds.

10-01-2009, 07:57 PM	#113
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	I have had that idea before, in a few different versions. I have thought about putting a bike hub motor on each wheel. 8" tires would be right at 6mph on 36v. It would be easy in one way, but the electrics would be a bear tying together without some big work.

10-01-2009, 11:04 PM	#114
44newman Rock Stacker Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Eastern Oregon Posts: 65	So you mentioned using a Tekin RS for this project . What would be your next choice of ESC, that is for sensored motors and do 3s ?

10-02-2009, 05:49 AM	#115
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	Second choice would be a mamba max pro (in development) or a novak goat unit.

10-07-2009, 06:40 AM	#117
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	No clue on either front. The goat should work with other motors, but the one I tested was an older model so things may have changed.

10-07-2009, 08:08 AM	#118
44newman Rock Stacker Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Eastern Oregon Posts: 65	About 1/2 way down the page is a title Motor Compatabitity. There is a couple short paragraphs on it and a link to a list of Novak motors that will work. Short list really. http://www.teamnovak.com/products/es..._3s/index.html

10-07-2009, 08:15 AM	#119
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	I am pretty sure the Goat motors just have a resistor on that lead, and the normal Roar style motors have a little thermistor instead.

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