RCCrawler Forums

Missy · 01-23-2010, 12:55 PM

I work at A Main Hobbies, I have a question for a customer (and I am very curious):
what are the benefits of going brushless in a crawler? and What are you guys running as far as brushless motors?
(I've read that the high KV brushless motors just cogg, or get jumpy.)

team3six · 01-23-2010, 01:20 PM

I honestly don't see any benefits myself. I prefer brushed over brushless when it comes to crawling specifically because they have more torque. Brushless companies brag about their product over Brushed and claim a lot of non facts when it comes to specs, but reasonably the brushless setups are good for high end speed and longevity. Simply put, yeah brushess is great for fast trucks and speed applications but I don't think that Brushless will ever be as good as brushed in a low speed- high torque situations At the cost differences. I would rather buy a new motor or replace the brushes and cut the com myself.

Missy · 01-23-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by team3six

I honestly don't see any benefits myself. I prefer brushed over brushless when it comes to crawling specifically because they have more torque. Brushless companies brag about their product over Brushed and claim a lot of non facts when it comes to specs, but reasonably the brushless setups are good for high end speed and longevity. Simply put, yeah brushess is great for fast trucks and speed applications but I don't think that Brushless will ever be as good as brushed in a low speed- high torque situations At the cost differences. I would rather buy a new motor or replace the brushes and cut the com myself.

Yeah as far as we go here in the store brushless is the way to go with any high speed vehicle, and we sell a fair amount of brushless systems for crawlers but I have never seen a need for it. The lack of maintenance is a plus but as you said I don't think it is worth the price of the motor. Thank you.

oldhippie · 01-23-2010, 07:30 PM

Ya need a good sensored bushless setup to get any low speed control for crawling. Something like a tekin rs/21.5 is alot of $ for not much gain in a crawler. Now in a losi, brushless is a good thing but for anything else it's overkill.

rockmahala · 01-23-2010, 07:35 PM

i dont think there is an advantage going brushless in a crawler. i've had both setups in my axial and prefer the brushed set up. control with a brushed setup seems more precise and isnt as jerky as the brushless setups.

KBrog · 01-23-2010, 07:40 PM

I have a Losi Comp Crawler. I ran brushed at first. Just burnt up motor after motor. Went to the Novak Goat 3s ESC with Ballistic 18.5 sensored motor, and it is nothen but the truth.

Wreckless · 01-23-2010, 07:41 PM

I was wondering the same thing, thanks for asking the question..

Sharkey · 01-23-2010, 07:42 PM

i cant see the need for it. i used to race touring cars before brushless was around and after every race i was turning the com and new brushes, and mod motor guys would do it on the saturday evening after qualifying of a 2 day race. with crawling, ive gone a whole year without rebuilding the motor and its in great shape still. with the lower current draw and loads of a crawler it doesnt wear a brushed motor much. looking from a cost standpoint, a brushed motor is the way to go. as far as other things, i cant really comment much, i have one friend with a goat brushless, everyone else runs brushed.

KrawlerKing · 01-23-2010, 07:45 PM

ive got brushless in mine goat 3s 18.5 running on 2s i had a og 35 turn warrior motor before and it didnt even compare...low speed control torque any of it so im definately happy with brushless over brushed

BadTurtle · 01-23-2010, 07:54 PM

Just from the cost standpoint brushed motors rock. You can get a high wind brushed motor and ESC for less than the price of just a sensored brushless motor. The RPM's of a brushed crawler motor are so low the brushes last a real long time. Brushless for speed, brushed for crawling.

NVMYRC51 · 01-23-2010, 08:02 PM

Doesn't it really depend on the crawler, to a point? The reason brushless works well in Losi applications is the worm drive. The extra speed of the brushless works well in the platform. AX-10 or similar platform, brushed.

BadTurtle · 01-23-2010, 08:17 PM

Yes those worm drive axles have around a 40:1 gear reduction in just the axle! RC4WD makes a worminator rig that uses a 1:1 transmission, all of the gear reduction is in the axles. Worm axles need higher RPM's. So they are a good candidate for a sensored brushless setup.

fa1rch1ld · 01-23-2010, 08:28 PM

I would run brushed in almost any setup...No questions asked, but the LCC was
designed to run a brushless/Lipo. Even in the instruction manual for the LCC it
shows it with a black/white diagram with a brushless. Why do you think
everyone with Losi MOA's are switching back to a shafty? I know of a few build
on rccrawler that are converting back. And I have two personal friends who are
converting the Losi back to a shafty. The only way to get the
torque/runtime/power is to ether go back to a brushless setup, or run a 4cell
setup on the Losi MOA.

Twisted Nuts · 01-24-2010, 12:11 AM

i'm running an 18.5 novak crawler motor and a Mamba Max Pro and IT ROCK'S compared to the brushed 45T V11 crawler motor i had prior to it!!

traxxas4fun · 01-24-2010, 10:28 AM

i also dont see any advantages.. i have trail rigs so they all run in water.. id rather replace a $20 motor two or three times a year then replace brushless

BRUSHLESSAX10 · 01-24-2010, 10:33 AM

i switched from brushed to brushless (GOAT) on my ax10 and I love it... I doubled my run time and its for sure faster if you want it.. expensive yes.. but to me the run time is worth it, very quiet running too if that even matters

crazz from bc · 01-24-2010, 10:37 AM

same here i had a 45t tekin and was running 160 temp so went for the goat 3s and wow better torq faster wheel speed pretty much no heat and longer run time,having said that it is in a lcc :-P

Scottmisfits · 01-24-2010, 10:41 AM

I'm running the LCC with a brushed motor and having no problems. But then again I'm running V2 driveshafts and not having issues. Don't get the truck bound up and the brushed motors are fine. With the Losi you need to rely on your dig more. You start to get bound up, use your dig. Don't try to muscle through like you will with a Berg or an Axial. The Losi requires more finess.

That being said, I actually liked my brushless set up in my losi but I hated it in my Axial. In the axial it was really jumpy no matter how I set it up. In my Losi I did like it. For the guys doing the comp crawling, who really cares about run time? The most I've pulled out after a run has been 600mah. That's half of my battery. And most comp guys will have at least 2 batteries.

fa1rch1ld · 01-24-2010, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by traxxas4fun

i also dont see any advantages.. i have trail rigs so they all run in water.. id rather replace a $20 motor two or three times a year then replace brushless

Again brushed in about 90% of situations is better. LCC = Brushless, unless you
are rocking a 7t Puller motor. I had a brushed 21.5 on my Losi at one point,
same 21.5 brushless is night/day difference.

PLAYBOY900RR · 01-24-2010, 10:33 PM

I run a goat and a 18.5 in my axial you couldnt pay me enough to go back to brushed I started out with a wheelie king based super with the novak crawler and 55t switched it with a goat and 18.5 best mod ever done to that truck, dont get me wrong it takes a little effort to work out the twitching and glitching at first but the response in the trigger for me there is no contest. All my fellow crawlers I play with are currently planning on making the switch to bl the cost is definately a factor though. The brushless stuff is finally getting to be some what resonable now, when I bought my first goat it was almost 350 now they are around 200.

01-23-2010, 12:55 PM	#1
Missy Rock Stacker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: California Posts: 71	Why go brushless? I work at A Main Hobbies, I have a question for a customer (and I am very curious): what are the benefits of going brushless in a crawler? and What are you guys running as far as brushless motors? (I've read that the high KV brushless motors just cogg, or get jumpy.)

01-23-2010, 07:54 PM	#10
BadTurtle Rock Stacker Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Now in TUCSON baby! Posts: 83	Brushed motor is the way to go Just from the cost standpoint brushed motors rock. You can get a high wind brushed motor and ESC for less than the price of just a sensored brushless motor. The RPM's of a brushed crawler motor are so low the brushes last a real long time. Brushless for speed, brushed for crawling.

01-23-2010, 08:17 PM	#12
BadTurtle Rock Stacker Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Now in TUCSON baby! Posts: 83	Worms! Yes those worm drive axles have around a 40:1 gear reduction in just the axle! RC4WD makes a worminator rig that uses a 1:1 transmission, all of the gear reduction is in the axles. Worm axles need higher RPM's. So they are a good candidate for a sensored brushless setup.

01-23-2010, 01:20 PM	#2
team3six www.team3sixrc.com Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scalerville Posts: 4,506	I honestly don't see any benefits myself. I prefer brushed over brushless when it comes to crawling specifically because they have more torque. Brushless companies brag about their product over Brushed and claim a lot of non facts when it comes to specs, but reasonably the brushless setups are good for high end speed and longevity. Simply put, yeah brushess is great for fast trucks and speed applications but I don't think that Brushless will ever be as good as brushed in a low speed- high torque situations At the cost differences. I would rather buy a new motor or replace the brushes and cut the com myself.

01-23-2010, 07:30 PM	#4
oldhippie I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: 20 miles southeeast of downtown Sacramento Posts: 2,373	Ya need a good sensored bushless setup to get any low speed control for crawling. Something like a tekin rs/21.5 is alot of $ for not much gain in a crawler. Now in a losi, brushless is a good thing but for anything else it's overkill.

01-23-2010, 07:35 PM	#5
rockmahala Quarry Creeper Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Conowingo, Maryland Posts: 366	i dont think there is an advantage going brushless in a crawler. i've had both setups in my axial and prefer the brushed set up. control with a brushed setup seems more precise and isnt as jerky as the brushless setups.

01-23-2010, 07:40 PM	#6
KBrog RCC Addict Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Earth? Posts: 1,698	I have a Losi Comp Crawler. I ran brushed at first. Just burnt up motor after motor. Went to the Novak Goat 3s ESC with Ballistic 18.5 sensored motor, and it is nothen but the truth.

01-23-2010, 07:41 PM	#7
Wreckless Newbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 24	I was wondering the same thing, thanks for asking the question..

01-23-2010, 07:42 PM	#8
Sharkey Rock Crawler Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Abbotsford BC Posts: 563	i cant see the need for it. i used to race touring cars before brushless was around and after every race i was turning the com and new brushes, and mod motor guys would do it on the saturday evening after qualifying of a 2 day race. with crawling, ive gone a whole year without rebuilding the motor and its in great shape still. with the lower current draw and loads of a crawler it doesnt wear a brushed motor much. looking from a cost standpoint, a brushed motor is the way to go. as far as other things, i cant really comment much, i have one friend with a goat brushless, everyone else runs brushed.

01-23-2010, 07:45 PM	#9
KrawlerKing Pebble Pounder Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: virginia beach Posts: 172	ive got brushless in mine goat 3s 18.5 running on 2s i had a og 35 turn warrior motor before and it didnt even compare...low speed control torque any of it so im definately happy with brushless over brushed

01-23-2010, 08:02 PM	#11
NVMYRC51 Newbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 31	Doesn't it really depend on the crawler, to a point? The reason brushless works well in Losi applications is the worm drive. The extra speed of the brushless works well in the platform. AX-10 or similar platform, brushed.

01-23-2010, 08:28 PM	#13
fa1rch1ld RCC Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: California Posts: 1,494	I would run brushed in almost any setup...No questions asked, but the LCC was designed to run a brushless/Lipo. Even in the instruction manual for the LCC it shows it with a black/white diagram with a brushless. Why do you think everyone with Losi MOA's are switching back to a shafty? I know of a few build on rccrawler that are converting back. And I have two personal friends who are converting the Losi back to a shafty. The only way to get the torque/runtime/power is to ether go back to a brushless setup, or run a 4cell setup on the Losi MOA.

01-24-2010, 12:11 AM	#14
Twisted Nuts Rock Crawler Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: summertown Posts: 512	i'm running an 18.5 novak crawler motor and a Mamba Max Pro and IT ROCK'S compared to the brushed 45T V11 crawler motor i had prior to it!!

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01-24-2010, 10:28 AM	#15
traxxas4fun Quarry Creeper Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Indianapolis Indiana Posts: 346	i also dont see any advantages.. i have trail rigs so they all run in water.. id rather replace a $20 motor two or three times a year then replace brushless

01-24-2010, 10:33 AM	#16
BRUSHLESSAX10 Rock Stacker Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: WV Posts: 73	i switched from brushed to brushless (GOAT) on my ax10 and I love it... I doubled my run time and its for sure faster if you want it.. expensive yes.. but to me the run time is worth it, very quiet running too if that even matters

01-24-2010, 10:37 AM	#17
crazz from bc Rock Stacker Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: deroche b,c canada Posts: 54	same here i had a 45t tekin and was running 160 temp so went for the goat 3s and wow better torq faster wheel speed pretty much no heat and longer run time,having said that it is in a lcc :-P

01-24-2010, 10:41 AM	#18
Scottmisfits Rock Crawler Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Calgary Posts: 913	I'm running the LCC with a brushed motor and having no problems. But then again I'm running V2 driveshafts and not having issues. Don't get the truck bound up and the brushed motors are fine. With the Losi you need to rely on your dig more. You start to get bound up, use your dig. Don't try to muscle through like you will with a Berg or an Axial. The Losi requires more finess. That being said, I actually liked my brushless set up in my losi but I hated it in my Axial. In the axial it was really jumpy no matter how I set it up. In my Losi I did like it. For the guys doing the comp crawling, who really cares about run time? The most I've pulled out after a run has been 600mah. That's half of my battery. And most comp guys will have at least 2 batteries.

01-24-2010, 10:33 PM	#20
PLAYBOY900RR Newbie Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chandler Posts: 1	I run a goat and a 18.5 in my axial you couldnt pay me enough to go back to brushed I started out with a wheelie king based super with the novak crawler and 55t switched it with a goat and 18.5 best mod ever done to that truck, dont get me wrong it takes a little effort to work out the twitching and glitching at first but the response in the trigger for me there is no contest. All my fellow crawlers I play with are currently planning on making the switch to bl the cost is definately a factor though. The brushless stuff is finally getting to be some what resonable now, when I bought my first goat it was almost 350 now they are around 200.

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