RCCrawler Forums

SeniorXJ · 12-30-2010, 02:35 AM

-So after 2 decades i finally pull my old Kyosho Double Dare out of the attick. Its the one with a Nissan body, 4wd & 4ws. I did some searching & only found one guy who recently got his up & running like it should uf decades ago.

-My issue is that im not sure which electronic upgrades to get. I will start off by sayin i want it to run thru grass, snow, mud, rough terrain at high speeds, jumping, & ofcorse speed itself. I kno its an old machine & that i cant stick anything in there which is the purpose of this thread.

-The one guy put in 27turn motors, but im unfamiliar with what it means on how many turns a motor has. He also did away with the 4-wheel steering & put in an ESC, but i dont kno what kind. I'd like to keep the 4ws, but am willing to give it up if it means gettin the steering to react much better then stock!!!

-I can post pics up if it helps us make a decision on what to get. I wanna put in a better battery, motors, an ESC, possibly new servos, ball bearings, shocks, lock the rear, water-proof whats possible, & replace plastic parts with aluminum & get those electronics to match each other. I'd LOVE for some suggestions & have those suggestions explained to me.

Thanks a Mill,
SeniorXJ

tarmo120 · 12-30-2010, 04:07 AM

Hey, I don't know anything about the car. But I do know this and that about electronics.

It all comes down to personal choice and budget.

About the turns in electric motors.
-The smaller the turn number, the more speed it has, but the less torque it has.
-The higher the number, the less speed it has, but alot more torque. Some like to run 35T.
That has like a good combo of torque and speed.
It's all personal choice.

About ESC.

-Some like to run the Tekin FX-R, Novak Goat or something from the Traxxas Waterproof line.
-Again, this is a personal choice and limited by budget

Servos(steering component)

-For the front you should get something that has a bit torque and speed.
-I use some Spektrum servo, but on a low budget you could get a cheap Hitec 645.

If you wish to go fast, then you probably should get some axle replacements as well.
But I guess these are hard to come by.

This is just my 2 cent. Others with more experience can add alot to this with more detail. Good luck

wildwilly4x4 · 12-30-2010, 05:13 AM

I fixed one up a few years back, and I kept the 4 wheel steering. I used a modern high torque servo, the stock old motors, repaired all slop in the steering mechanism, used a novak ESC, and put ball bearings throughout the rig.

Be very careful playing with this rig, parts are very hard to come by nowadays. I was lucky and found an old Thorp ball diff and metal dogbones to replace the stock plastic ones, which made it much more durable. Have fun and enjoy the ole girl!

EddieO · 12-30-2010, 08:42 AM

My brother's second RC was a Double Dare he bought from a neighbor.....

The tranny parts can't take much more than a 27t stock motor. Definitely put bearings in it if doesn't have them

A Novak Rooster or Tekin FXR should work fine in it....

The big key on the 4 wheel steering on those was good servos.....the tires are very wide. Using a little more narrow wheels/tires will help too....

Later EddieO

SeniorXJ · 12-30-2010, 04:24 PM

Good stuff!! Good replies!! I thank u all!!

SeniorXJ · 12-31-2010, 02:12 AM

1.) Can anyone reccomend a matching combo of an ESC with 2 motors??

2.) How much torque on the steering servo is needed?? 80oz??

3.) Whats a good battery upgrade to the 7.2?? 9.6 4000 mah??

-I know that if u upgrade too much & ur ESC cant hack it then its toast!! SO, this is basicaly the main question, id like an ESC that can handle the dual 27t or 35t motors, the torque of the new steering servo & the higher, say 9.6v battery pack?? Need some reccomended parts here!!

-Budget is tight & ive seen an Axial 27t motor for $9 bucks, BUT dont know if its a good motor or not. I'll spend more for a better product, BUT im not buildin a killer here neither. I'd say an ESC, 2 motors, a steering servo, & battery pack can be had for $100 or less with great results!! I just need some suggestions here on the parts & where to go!!

Thanks again to all,
SeniorXJ

SeniorXJ · 01-11-2011, 07:56 PM

-Question... will buying a modern ESC replace the stock BEC thats in the Double Dare or do i use them both together??
-Its an Aristo-Craft Hitec digital proportional radio control BEC system# HP-2RNB75D 75MHz AM with 2 channels.
-I really am clueless to how BEC's & ESC's really work. My guess is that somethin needs to accept the signal from the controller, (is that the BEC's job?), & pass it on to an ESC which controls the RC itself like a cars engine. Am i correct or should i go sit in the newbie section for a week??
LOL!!

Sazzlefrats · 01-17-2011, 03:17 PM

I replied on your other thread. But I'm working on my double dare. I replaced the chassis a number of years ago after a very unfortunate but exciting jump. Probably have some spare parts.

If you come across a steering linkage solution, let me know.

Here's what I'm going to do.

Replace friction shocks with oil filled. (need to find 4 or 8 cheap 4" oil filled shocks. Should be easy on ebay)
Replace wheels and hubs with something more modern. I learned on the other thread that I can find a way to get hex adapters on it.
Metal Dogbones are going to be very hard to find.
5x10 bearings all around, easy, I see this on ebay all the time.
I bought a pair of 21t 550 motors with ESC from an E-Maxx owner. I think that'll be decent power. My old rotary speed control is totally cooked. I might even keep the traxxas connectors on the ESC.

I am at a loss for how to upgrade the steering linkage, one of the plastic sliders is cracked. I've had it 2WS for a long time, but 4WS is way better off road.

If you make any progress let me know. jkaminsky2002@yahoo.com

I forgot what a BEC is... if thats the 4 double AA batteries that used to control the steering servo... yes.. any ESC will replace that. I did that so long ago I forgot where the parts are. My system is receiver, two steering servos that have that circuit to connect the two, and then the esc for the twin motors. I had stock 05 le mans, then upgraded to 15t regular motors (not enough torque even with pinion change) so now I'm going to go with the emaxx motors...

I think that stock servo's are good enough. If you want higher torque ones... get the cheapest ones that say hi torque.

Batterywise. Assuming your ESC can handle it, get a 7 or 8 cell, or even a 2s or 3s lipo. I'm guessing that if you can find a 8 cell stick thats the easiest. I'm looking around at Lipo's... most won't fit in the stock battery tray. If you run single battery, get 4000 or more mah... and more than 7.2v (6 cell)

discgolferlee · 01-17-2011, 05:02 PM

let's see some pics of it before the rebuild

SeniorXJ · 01-18-2011, 01:38 AM

-Ive been taken pics so ill post up a build thread when mostly done.

-I already have Hex adaptors on all 4 corners allowing me to use 2.2 sized tires & rims. I'll post up pics & a link for ya ok.

-I think i have a solution for the steering & thats to make my own out of aluminum & use newer styled bigger heim ends. If u mount them horisontal & not flat like they are stock, they wont pop off so easily!! Also, if u make a mount that incases the heim on both sides, then its really hard for it to fail period!!!

-Im still searchin for metal dogbones & hubs that will both fit & work like the way they should & not have to worry about them!!!

-Theres alot more info for RC's like the Double Dare & moster truck styled RC's at RCMT forums, as this is more of a crawlers forum.

discgolferlee · 01-18-2011, 06:39 AM

awesome, can't wait to see this thing complete

Sazzlefrats · 01-18-2011, 11:45 AM

I just registered on the RCMT forumns. Can't post yet. I also just learned that one of my gearboxes is busted up internally. I guess thats why I left the truck to gather dust.

Don't suppose you have a spare box? Its odd though, the differential still works, its just that I can hold one wheel, and the other will rotate and you can hear plastic grinding noises, but it rotates with no resistance.

The other gearbox, if you hold a wheel, nothing spins. Nice n tight.

SeniorXJ · 01-18-2011, 09:43 PM

-Believe it or not, ebay has alot of Double Dare stock parts for sale!!

Sazzlefrats · 01-24-2011, 11:23 AM

That other forum doesn't seem to have much activity. I have a road block to resurrecting my double dare. I think that my universal joints in the rear of the truck are worn to the point that my differential (crown gear) isn't making a good contact with the counter gear. I don't suppose you have any spare universal joints? I won't be upgrading my truck to metal gears or the thorp differential or any of that stuff.

If... I can get two universal joints, which I have not yet seen for sale on ebay or anywhere else, I'm back in business.

Otherwise... maybe my truck might be someone's parts truck :-)

SeniorXJ · 01-24-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sazzlefrats

That other forum doesn't seem to have much activity. I have a road block to resurrecting my double dare. I think that my universal joints in the rear of the truck are worn to the point that my differential (crown gear) isn't making a good contact with the counter gear. I don't suppose you have any spare universal joints? I won't be upgrading my truck to metal gears or the thorp differential or any of that stuff.

If... I can get two universal joints, which I have not yet seen for sale on ebay or anywhere else, I'm back in business.

Otherwise... maybe my truck might be someone's parts truck :-)

-Type in "Kyosho Vintage" or "USA-1 Parts" or "Double Dare Parts" & u should find a set of 4 stockers for cheap as i just saw them on ebay the other day. Plan on buying alot of em as they will wear & break on nearly EVERY run u take it on. The only option u should be making is gettin metal dogbones in there period!!! When ive got mine all setup to use & abuse, ill post up pics & the parts used!!

12-30-2010, 02:35 AM	#1
SeniorXJ Newbie Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 48	Upgrading my Double Dare... -So after 2 decades i finally pull my old Kyosho Double Dare out of the attick. Its the one with a Nissan body, 4wd & 4ws. I did some searching & only found one guy who recently got his up & running like it should uf decades ago. -My issue is that im not sure which electronic upgrades to get. I will start off by sayin i want it to run thru grass, snow, mud, rough terrain at high speeds, jumping, & ofcorse speed itself. I kno its an old machine & that i cant stick anything in there which is the purpose of this thread. -The one guy put in 27turn motors, but im unfamiliar with what it means on how many turns a motor has. He also did away with the 4-wheel steering & put in an ESC, but i dont kno what kind. I'd like to keep the 4ws, but am willing to give it up if it means gettin the steering to react much better then stock!!! -I can post pics up if it helps us make a decision on what to get. I wanna put in a better battery, motors, an ESC, possibly new servos, ball bearings, shocks, lock the rear, water-proof whats possible, & replace plastic parts with aluminum & get those electronics to match each other. I'd LOVE for some suggestions & have those suggestions explained to me. Thanks a Mill, SeniorXJ Last edited by SeniorXJ; 12-30-2010 at 02:53 AM.

12-30-2010, 04:07 AM	#2
tarmo120 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Estonia Posts: 317	Hey, I don't know anything about the car. But I do know this and that about electronics. It all comes down to personal choice and budget. About the turns in electric motors. -The smaller the turn number, the more speed it has, but the less torque it has. -The higher the number, the less speed it has, but alot more torque. Some like to run 35T. That has like a good combo of torque and speed. It's all personal choice. About ESC. -Some like to run the Tekin FX-R, Novak Goat or something from the Traxxas Waterproof line. -Again, this is a personal choice and limited by budget Servos(steering component) -For the front you should get something that has a bit torque and speed. -I use some Spektrum servo, but on a low budget you could get a cheap Hitec 645. If you wish to go fast, then you probably should get some axle replacements as well. But I guess these are hard to come by. This is just my 2 cent. Others with more experience can add alot to this with more detail. Good luck

12-30-2010, 05:13 AM	#3
wildwilly4x4 Newbie Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Sunray Posts: 12	I fixed one up a few years back, and I kept the 4 wheel steering. I used a modern high torque servo, the stock old motors, repaired all slop in the steering mechanism, used a novak ESC, and put ball bearings throughout the rig. Be very careful playing with this rig, parts are very hard to come by nowadays. I was lucky and found an old Thorp ball diff and metal dogbones to replace the stock plastic ones, which made it much more durable. Have fun and enjoy the ole girl!

12-30-2010, 08:42 AM	#4
EddieO I wanna be Dave Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arlington, Washington Posts: 2,303	My brother's second RC was a Double Dare he bought from a neighbor..... The tranny parts can't take much more than a 27t stock motor. Definitely put bearings in it if doesn't have them A Novak Rooster or Tekin FXR should work fine in it.... The big key on the 4 wheel steering on those was good servos.....the tires are very wide. Using a little more narrow wheels/tires will help too.... Later EddieO

12-30-2010, 04:24 PM	#5
SeniorXJ Newbie Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 48	Good stuff!! Good replies!! I thank u all!!

12-31-2010, 02:12 AM	#6
SeniorXJ Newbie Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 48	1.) Can anyone reccomend a matching combo of an ESC with 2 motors?? 2.) How much torque on the steering servo is needed?? 80oz?? 3.) Whats a good battery upgrade to the 7.2?? 9.6 4000 mah?? -I know that if u upgrade too much & ur ESC cant hack it then its toast!! SO, this is basicaly the main question, id like an ESC that can handle the dual 27t or 35t motors, the torque of the new steering servo & the higher, say 9.6v battery pack?? Need some reccomended parts here!! -Budget is tight & ive seen an Axial 27t motor for $9 bucks, BUT dont know if its a good motor or not. I'll spend more for a better product, BUT im not buildin a killer here neither. I'd say an ESC, 2 motors, a steering servo, & battery pack can be had for $100 or less with great results!! I just need some suggestions here on the parts & where to go!! Thanks again to all, SeniorXJ

01-11-2011, 07:56 PM	#7
SeniorXJ Newbie Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 48	-Question... will buying a modern ESC replace the stock BEC thats in the Double Dare or do i use them both together?? -Its an Aristo-Craft Hitec digital proportional radio control BEC system# HP-2RNB75D 75MHz AM with 2 channels. -I really am clueless to how BEC's & ESC's really work. My guess is that somethin needs to accept the signal from the controller, (is that the BEC's job?), & pass it on to an ESC which controls the RC itself like a cars engine. Am i correct or should i go sit in the newbie section for a week?? LOL!!

01-17-2011, 03:17 PM	#8
Sazzlefrats Newbie Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: San Jose Posts: 7	I replied on your other thread. But I'm working on my double dare. I replaced the chassis a number of years ago after a very unfortunate but exciting jump. Probably have some spare parts. If you come across a steering linkage solution, let me know. Here's what I'm going to do. Replace friction shocks with oil filled. (need to find 4 or 8 cheap 4" oil filled shocks. Should be easy on ebay) Replace wheels and hubs with something more modern. I learned on the other thread that I can find a way to get hex adapters on it. Metal Dogbones are going to be very hard to find. 5x10 bearings all around, easy, I see this on ebay all the time. I bought a pair of 21t 550 motors with ESC from an E-Maxx owner. I think that'll be decent power. My old rotary speed control is totally cooked. I might even keep the traxxas connectors on the ESC. I am at a loss for how to upgrade the steering linkage, one of the plastic sliders is cracked. I've had it 2WS for a long time, but 4WS is way better off road. If you make any progress let me know. jkaminsky2002@yahoo.com I forgot what a BEC is... if thats the 4 double AA batteries that used to control the steering servo... yes.. any ESC will replace that. I did that so long ago I forgot where the parts are. My system is receiver, two steering servos that have that circuit to connect the two, and then the esc for the twin motors. I had stock 05 le mans, then upgraded to 15t regular motors (not enough torque even with pinion change) so now I'm going to go with the emaxx motors... I think that stock servo's are good enough. If you want higher torque ones... get the cheapest ones that say hi torque. Batterywise. Assuming your ESC can handle it, get a 7 or 8 cell, or even a 2s or 3s lipo. I'm guessing that if you can find a 8 cell stick thats the easiest. I'm looking around at Lipo's... most won't fit in the stock battery tray. If you run single battery, get 4000 or more mah... and more than 7.2v (6 cell)

01-17-2011, 05:02 PM	#9
discgolferlee Rock Crawler Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Clinton,Michigan Posts: 908	let's see some pics of it before the rebuild

01-18-2011, 01:38 AM	#10
SeniorXJ Newbie Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 48	-Ive been taken pics so ill post up a build thread when mostly done. -I already have Hex adaptors on all 4 corners allowing me to use 2.2 sized tires & rims. I'll post up pics & a link for ya ok. -I think i have a solution for the steering & thats to make my own out of aluminum & use newer styled bigger heim ends. If u mount them horisontal & not flat like they are stock, they wont pop off so easily!! Also, if u make a mount that incases the heim on both sides, then its really hard for it to fail period!!! -Im still searchin for metal dogbones & hubs that will both fit & work like the way they should & not have to worry about them!!! -Theres alot more info for RC's like the Double Dare & moster truck styled RC's at RCMT forums, as this is more of a crawlers forum.

01-18-2011, 06:39 AM	#11
discgolferlee Rock Crawler Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Clinton,Michigan Posts: 908	awesome, can't wait to see this thing complete

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01-18-2011, 11:45 AM	#12
Sazzlefrats Newbie Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: San Jose Posts: 7	I just registered on the RCMT forumns. Can't post yet. I also just learned that one of my gearboxes is busted up internally. I guess thats why I left the truck to gather dust. Don't suppose you have a spare box? Its odd though, the differential still works, its just that I can hold one wheel, and the other will rotate and you can hear plastic grinding noises, but it rotates with no resistance. The other gearbox, if you hold a wheel, nothing spins. Nice n tight.

01-18-2011, 09:43 PM	#13
SeniorXJ Newbie Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 48	-Believe it or not, ebay has alot of Double Dare stock parts for sale!!

01-24-2011, 11:23 AM	#14
Sazzlefrats Newbie Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: San Jose Posts: 7	That other forum doesn't seem to have much activity. I have a road block to resurrecting my double dare. I think that my universal joints in the rear of the truck are worn to the point that my differential (crown gear) isn't making a good contact with the counter gear. I don't suppose you have any spare universal joints? I won't be upgrading my truck to metal gears or the thorp differential or any of that stuff. If... I can get two universal joints, which I have not yet seen for sale on ebay or anywhere else, I'm back in business. Otherwise... maybe my truck might be someone's parts truck :-)

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