Smooth throttle concern

[nichols174]

Need to know what all entitles smooth throttle. I am sure someone will say experience so good for you I am glad you know that much Anyway though, is it just the esc's that I go with, just the tx, just the motors, or combination of the three? I see a ton of people going with the FX-R but because of the small footprint and onboard programming. Also I see the 55t motors get matched with them but didnt know if that was because they buy the FX-R and motor combo packs.

Last question, I see some use two FX-R esc's and other's with one and the punk dig system. Can someone tell me the pro's and con's of either way please. By the way I am in the middle of a XR10 build. Need to buy all the electronics asap. Thanks

[SMR 510RR]

Im not exactly sure what you are asking but here are my thoughts about what you said. There are several ways to get more "throttle control"...I think that is actually looking for. A lot of this depends on your motors, your radio gear, and your speed controller.

If your radio has a exponential adjustment for the throttle I would use it. you will have to experiment with it a little bit to find how much you like. Most speed controller (including the FXR) allow a similar adjustment, it is usually called "throttle curve" or something like that. This can be helpful if your radio doesnt allow for exponential curves. Basically what it does is makes the throttle less sensitive near neutral and gradually it gets stronger. Lets say from 0* to 10* it is only like pulling 2.5* but from 10* to 20* it is like 10* and then from 20* to 30* it is like 15* if that makes any sense.

Now the FXR is used by a lot of people in their comp rigs. Your right it is small and it works very well. Running dual esc's in a MOA rig allows you to have independent control of the front/rear motor but in order to utilize the dual's you will need a radio with the mixing functions to make it all work. Right now there arent very many radios out there that allow you to adjust the mixing "on the fly" making the dual esc's useless. As of right now your choices for a radio with the proper mixing are Futaba 4pk(s), 4pl, and a couple of their other systems (Im sure others will chime in)...If you want spektrum you can get a DX3E and hack it with the wantAsummit hack kit(I am using one and loving it) and wantAsummit is releasing a converter that goes in the truck to use a DX3R...Now if you dont mind going to a twin stick transmitter there are a ton of options from aircraft that have the mixing functions you will need.

The other route is a single esc (FXR or similar) and a electronic dig. As far as electronic digs you could get something like the punk did (Very popular now) or you can build a little switchbox with two switches that get activated by a mini servo. This setup is good but you dont have full proportional control of the esc's...They are either on or off so you have dig but not 50% rear motor and 100% front motor.

If you have the budget go with some nice handwound motors. Holmes Hobbies and Brood both have great motors and both support this site. Most people are running 45T motors on the XR10's from what I have read, I would go with that or look through some of the threads in the XR10 section to see what is working well for others.

Hope that helps...If you have any other questions post up and we will get you the info you need to make your rig right the first time.

[blitz14]

Ok, I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge until somebody else chimes. Obviously smooth throttle control is from the driver input, but also the throttle curve you set on the ESC matters also, i.e., linear, convex, or concave. Basically more or less touchy. Many use Tekin FXRs because they are small, reliable, programmable (via hotwire) and are proven performers.And motors matter, but you get what you pay for. Handwound motors offer a "smoothness" that machine wounds can't. But if you are just starting out, the Tekin motors are fine. As for dual ESCs, you need a TX capable of using dual ESCs, such as Futaba 4pk, 4pl, Airtronics M11x etc or a two stick TX. It will need atleast 4 channels. The advantage is more control. You can program the rear ESC to behave differently than the front. Depending on the terrain, you might want the rear wheels to spin faster or slower than the front. As well as having front and rear dig. As for 1 ESC and punk dig, that's a good setup for dig, but doesn't have as much ability to "dial" in your front and rear independently. Hope this helps. Search the forums (especially the XR10 builds for you)and ask crawlers around you. This WHOLE thing is a constant learning experience, fortunately RCC.com has a wealth of people to learn from. Good luck!

Originally Posted by nichols174

Need to know what all entitles smooth throttle. I am sure someone will say experience so good for you I am glad you know that much Anyway though, is it just the esc's that I go with, just the tx, just the motors, or combination of the three? I see a ton of people going with the FX-R but because of the small footprint and onboard programming. Also I see the 55t motors get matched with them but didnt know if that was because they buy the FX-R and motor combo packs.

Last question, I see some use two FX-R esc's and other's with one and the punk dig system. Can someone tell me the pro's and con's of either way please. By the way I am in the middle of a XR10 build. Need to buy all the electronics asap. Thanks

[Tanis]

Smooth low speed control is based on the cominbation of esc, motor and radio, with the ESC being the most important factor. Some have better throttle resolution, while others just don't. Some have adjustability or software updates that help this(Holmes Torquemaster, FXR, Castle...)
The radio will only really do exponential, which sorta helps, but isn't the same thing as what the ESC's do in the software changes/profiles.
A good handwound motor will help some, but it's not a gigantic difference as some claim I can run a $15 Integy lathe motor and have almost the same low speed resolution as a Handwound, but a handwound will have more power, be more efficient, etc...as long as I use an ESC that has good low speed resolution/startup.

Originally Posted by blitz14

As for dual ESCs, you need a TX capable of using dual ESCs, such as Futaba 4pk, 4pl, Airtronics M11x etc or a two stick TX. It will need atleast 4 channels.

Actually, you only need 3 channels for a 2.2, unless you have cut-brakes
Ch1=steering
Ch2=front esc
Ch3=rear esc

[blitz14]

Doh! I stand corrected...thanks for clarifying that...brain fart!

Originally Posted by Tanis

Smooth low speed control is based on the cominbation of esc, motor and radio, with the ESC being the most important factor. Some have better throttle resolution, while others just don't. Some have adjustability or software updates that help this(Holmes Torquemaster, FXR, Castle...)
The radio will only really do exponential, which sorta helps, but isn't the same thing as what the ESC's do in the software changes/profiles.
A good handwound motor will help some, but it's not a gigantic difference as some claim I can run a $15 Integy lathe motor and have almost the same low speed resolution as a Handwound, but a handwound will have more power, be more efficient, etc...as long as I use an ESC that has good low speed resolution/startup.


Actually, you only need 3 channels for a 2.2, unless you have cut-brakes
Ch1=steering
Ch2=front esc
Ch3=rear esc

[Tanis]

Originally Posted by blitz14

Doh! I stand corrected...thanks for clarifying that...brain fart!

No worries, we all do it from time to time

[THnCS]

Originally Posted by Tanis

Smooth low speed control is based on the cominbation of esc, motor and radio, with the ESC being the most important factor. Some have better throttle resolution, while others just don't. Some have adjustability or software updates that help this(Holmes Torquemaster, FXR, Castle...)
The radio will only really do exponential, which sorta helps, but isn't the same thing as what the ESC's do in the software changes/profiles.
A good handwound motor will help some, but it's not a gigantic difference as some claim I can run a $15 Integy lathe motor and have almost the same low speed resolution as a Handwound, but a handwound will have more power, be more efficient, etc...as long as I use an ESC that has good low speed resolution/startup.

I agree with all the above, especially Tanis. I am no where a top driver, but I am decent. I was running my dx6i, punk dig, HH BXrl, Integy 45t motors, I have on many occasions been told that it must be nice running dual esc's!! I have never ran dual esc's in rig I own. I love the complement though!

I think the main component for smooth throttle is your esc and your throttle curve. Once you have that figured out, it all comes down to your own finger control. Your TX definately needs to have exponentials so it can be fine tuned.

I have just switched to dual HH BRxl's, Futaba 4PL and the same tired almost 2yr old Integy 45t motors SMOOTH as BUTTA Now having dig and able to bias front or back is extremely nice. I will need to replace my motors soon, but it will be with cheapo Integy 45t's or something similar.

[nichols174]

Thank you guys very much. Looks like I wont have too many issues. I have the 4pks on the way, and just have to get a couple FX-R esc's, and figure out which 45t motors to go with. I will go with either Holmes or Brood just for the fact that I have heard a lot of talk about them and also if they support this site then I need to support them because this site is my only support. Our LHS's dont know anything about crawlers and dont sell but a couple items for them.

[nichols174]

so with the 4pks is one FX-R esc + punk dig system or 2 FX-R esc's going to benefit me more? Didnt quite follow SMR with his above mentioning of the punk system. Do I lose a lot of the programming capabilities if I use that instead of the two esc's?

[SMR 510RR]

Originally Posted by nichols174

so with the 4pks is one FX-R esc + punk dig system or 2 FX-R esc's going to benefit me more? Didnt quite follow SMR with his above mentioning of the punk system. Do I lose a lot of the programming capabilities if I use that instead of the two esc's?

If you have the radio to make full use of dual esc's do it! You have way more control with the duals than any electronic dig out there...You can cut power from either motor with the dual esc's where as the punk will only let you turn them on and off (4wd, front dig/rear locked, rear dig/front locked). It will take some time to get used to everything but within a couple hours of starting to use my dual esc setup I it was second nature...You will love it!

[blitz14]

Yes, to get the most out of your 4pks set-up, dual ESCs would give you the most control.

Originally Posted by nichols174

so with the 4pks is one FX-R esc + punk dig system or 2 FX-R esc's going to benefit me more? Didnt quite follow SMR with his above mentioning of the punk system. Do I lose a lot of the programming capabilities if I use that instead of the two esc's?

[nichols174]

sounds good. I will go with the two then. Might have to tell the wife I am just getting one but oh well, to lie is only human
thanks again for all your help.

[THnCS]

Originally Posted by nichols174

sounds good. I will go with the two then. Might have to tell the wife I am just getting one but oh well, to lie is only human
thanks again for all your help.

Probably an RCC Motto " It is easier to ask for forgivness than to ask for permission"

[Tanis]

Originally Posted by nichols174

so with the 4pks is one FX-R esc + punk dig system or 2 FX-R esc's going to benefit me more? Didnt quite follow SMR with his above mentioning of the punk system. Do I lose a lot of the programming capabilities if I use that instead of the two esc's?

With dual ESC's and that radio, you have the capability to proportionately control how much power each motor receives individually. For instance, if you are on a steep climb, the natural tendency is the rear motor will stall out more than the front, since the weight transfers to the rear wheels, so you will be able to up the power to the rear wheels and keep them turning closer to the same speed with dual esc's.
You should come out to the comp on sunday, it's in Soap Lake. PM Lakota, he is from Spokane, maybe a carpool option
Check out our local site for info http://www.ewrcrc.com/smf/index.php?...9f153a70dc7b7c&

[nichols174]

I am not too familiar with this site yet and not sure how to PM Lakota. I did check out that link and tried to register but still waiting for approval from admin I guess. Its been doing nothing but snowing and raining and now defrosting here making a big mess. You guys still have the comp no matter the conditions?

[nichols174]

Thanks Tanis. Is there a schedule that gets put out for the competitions?

[BEELZEBOB]

Best way to acheive good low end control,

or smooooooooooooooooooothie-ness

Would be a Castle Creations ESC, and a Castle link (lets you program it the way you want it.)

A HH, or Tekin ESC has the same computer programmability via another lil thing you buy.


Any and all experience is only gained from starting from right where you are, newb