RCCrawler Forums

JohnRobHolmes · 02-03-2011, 08:25 AM

So I am trying to get my head around why people want dual channel ESCs. Let us say that two small ESCs would fit in the space of one dual channel ESC. What is the big benefit?

On the other hand, why would you prefer an ESC that runs on dual channels, but only has limited dig operations and cannot do full mix tricks? Seems that a dig unit would do the same thing in a cheaper, smaller, and more reliable space.

Here is something one of my drivers requested. Two TorqueMaster ESCs mated together. About the same profile two FXRs, but a bit thinner I think. Testing will see if they crap out without the heat sinks. A production version would be encased in resin for protection.

Krakker · 02-03-2011, 08:36 AM

I assume you're talking about the Novak M2? The ONLY 2 benefits I have seen typed out are that they are looking for ONE unit to plug and play with (maybe it's a lazy thing or a scared of 2 ESC's thing) to reduce wiring connections and or space.
TWO, would be the cost of a single unit VS. the cost of buying 2.

3rd I guess might be the "what if's", like getting 2 ESC's in sync or if one poops out then it's de-solder, replace, and re-solder.

I have to admit, the idea was attractive, but my feelings on the M2 fiasco are pretty well known.

Scattman · 02-03-2011, 09:07 AM

Oh yeah.

JohnRobHolmes · 02-03-2011, 09:16 AM

I'm not really familiar with the m2 or what Novak put in the features. I am just asking for opinions on the matter since I get requests for a dual channel ESC every now and then.

In the matter of putting two ESCs in one case, it won't really save any money. The only advantage I can see besides space is having one chunk to mount. The downside is that if it blows up, instead of replacing one $100 ESC you have to replace a $200 ESC.

Just thinking out loud, and wondering what other drivers think.

losikid · 02-03-2011, 12:38 PM

I'd like to see a sensored brushless esc that would allow two motors. Also have it vary power on each motor dependent on its toque load, so really stall is eliminated. I have researched this, and although i don't remember all of it, i do know the esc needs to have dual feedback loops for each motor. I can try and find all the stuff i have saved if needed, but i think you know what i'm talking about.

As for a dual esc for mixing purposes i see no point in it, I'd rather have two micro esc's (smaller than fxr if possible

)

JohnRobHolmes · 02-03-2011, 12:53 PM

Yeah, we talked about that before. The easiest way to do it with dual ESCs would be a velocity loop. I don't see a big benefit though, with a mixing radio the stall can be controlled. With a velocity loop controlling both ESCs you would lose the ability to mix and dig.

I do see the benefit to velocity loops though, although I'm not sure if people would like how the throttle felt with them. You wouldn't get any feedback with terrain resistance, it would just keep adding power until something broke.

KBrog · 02-03-2011, 12:56 PM

A dual channel ESCs with mixing built into the ESC means someone would not have to buy a 500 dollar radio to go along with 2 ESC's. The M2 was a try at that. Dont think it quite got it right. The cost of a 4 channel radio has come down with the 4PL I think it is. But you are still limited to what 4 channel radio's are out there. Futaba or a outdated Nomadio are the only ones I know of on the market now.

JohnRobHolmes · 02-03-2011, 01:06 PM

Instead of trying to build all that mixing into an ESC, it seems that an external device could be used to do the same without locking you into a certain type of ESC. I could swear that somebody built such a thing, but I can't seem to find it now.

Krakker · 02-03-2011, 02:07 PM

Novak also had "the dig" which controlled 2 ESC's, but again, if you've already got 2 ESC's why bother with something external to control them?

I think (and I could be wrong) that having a separate unit to control the 2 ESC's would only add to the confusion of tuning it/them to sync up perfectly and would only add more "stuff" in the chassis.
Perhaps it's a radio issue, but truely only a 3ch. radio is needed for a crawler unless it's a Super or 2.2 running dual servos as well as 2 ESC's or even 1 & a dig unit. (like my girls Bully is.)

jcboof · 02-03-2011, 02:09 PM

Keep me informed on how those uncased BRXLs hold up! I'll be next on list for them.

I wouldn't be interested in a dual channel esc, just what you have pictured!

losikid · 02-03-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Yeah, we talked about that before. The easiest way to do it with dual ESCs would be a velocity loop. I don't see a big benefit though, with a mixing radio the stall can be controlled. With a velocity loop controlling both ESCs you would lose the ability to mix and dig.

I do see the benefit to velocity loops though, although I'm not sure if people would like how the throttle felt with them. You wouldn't get any feedback with terrain resistance, it would just keep adding power until something broke.

Yea i don't see a huge use for it on a moa, i just want a setup like that if i ever decide to build the motor in wheel crawler i've been working on every now and again.

But then again, having a guarnteed speed no matter what at a certain throttle position may be useful, so after a crawler comes out of a bind all that power, torque, and speed won't do any funny buisness to a crawler.

KBrog · 02-04-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Instead of trying to build all that mixing into an ESC, it seems that an external device could be used to do the same without locking you into a certain type of ESC. I could swear that somebody built such a thing, but I can't seem to find it now.

Someone has made such a device, and it works great.

Dual ESC Adapter (Proportional + Dig) for DX3R or 3PM-MX

JohnRobHolmes · 02-07-2011, 04:22 PM

Doesn't sound like there are too many people that want this. I may put it as an option on the site once more testing is done, but otherwise there isn't a large crowd that even want/ need a dual channel ESC in a single block.

Manning · 02-07-2011, 06:10 PM

It would be nice to have a Novak M2 type esc that had the slow speed control of the BRXL. I just like the idea of everything in one box.

kennyj · 02-07-2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

So I am trying to get my head around why people want dual channel ESCs. Let us say that two small ESCs would fit in the space of one dual channel ESC. What is the big benefit?

On the other hand, why would you prefer an ESC that runs on dual channels, but only has limited dig operations and cannot do full mix tricks? Seems that a dig unit would do the same thing in a cheaper, smaller, and more reliable space.

Here is something one of my drivers requested. Two TorqueMaster ESCs mated together. About the same profile two FXRs, but a bit thinner I think. Testing will see if they crap out without the heat sinks. A production version would be encased in resin for protection.

I would love to have one of these!

losikid · 02-07-2011, 08:14 PM

Anyway one, could do this to their own two br-xl's, or send them to you. I have two now, but they take a godly amount in my lcc chassis, it be awesome if i could fit these and a battery nicely in the bottom if the chassis and not packed in there.

JohnRobHolmes · 02-07-2011, 08:23 PM

How would you guys prefer the wires to come out of the case? All on one side, or something different? Seems that the RX, power, and first motor wires could exit one side with motor two wires exiting opposite. Depends on the rig setup I suppose.

Maybe we can do ten of them and satisfy the market

losikid · 02-07-2011, 09:51 PM

Probably motor wires on each side so equal length motor wires. oh don't be including me in your tally, just giving my opinion, i'm just in the brushless market now, for new stuff, but I am interested combining my br-xls to save space

paintballer9876 · 02-07-2011, 10:26 PM

I have two mamba max's with the plastic cases taken off and somehow managed to stuff them into a t1e chassis. I have a micro sidewinder laying around and was thinking of buying another and trying it as i have seen another guy use it, but i find myself powering out of bad situations which may result in the little sidewinders losing some smoke. I would want to keep the dig/proportional function of my two mambas, wantasummit dig/prop adapter with my dx3r. Unless we are talking an outrageous price i would be in for one and possibly another to replace my dads 2 br-xl's on his xr10.

SuperRoo · 02-08-2011, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

How would you guys prefer the wires to come out of the case? All on one side, or something different? Seems that the RX, power, and first motor wires could exit one side with motor two wires exiting opposite. Depends on the rig setup I suppose.

Maybe we can do ten of them and satisfy the market

I dont no about the BRXL but the Sidewinder has a ton of unused space on bottom side of the power input side of the ESC where you could make a add on circuit board to move the power wires to the opposite side on one of the ESC's, then you could just plug them in back to back, via some bullet connectors or hard wired depending on the application.

This will give you the option to run the input power wires through the top of either ESC or through the middle. If the situation arises that you need to replace one ESC then you can just unplug the old one and plug in the new one.

The only down side to the idea is that you would need to have two different ESC's available.

I would also consider keeping the heat sink but look at milling the profile of them down a little if you plan to run without the stock case.

02-03-2011, 08:25 AM	#1
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	Do you really want a dual channel ESC? So I am trying to get my head around why people want dual channel ESCs. Let us say that two small ESCs would fit in the space of one dual channel ESC. What is the big benefit? On the other hand, why would you prefer an ESC that runs on dual channels, but only has limited dig operations and cannot do full mix tricks? Seems that a dig unit would do the same thing in a cheaper, smaller, and more reliable space. Here is something one of my drivers requested. Two TorqueMaster ESCs mated together. About the same profile two FXRs, but a bit thinner I think. Testing will see if they crap out without the heat sinks. A production version would be encased in resin for protection.

02-03-2011, 12:38 PM	#5
losikid Got Worms? Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 6,116	I'd like to see a sensored brushless esc that would allow two motors. Also have it vary power on each motor dependent on its toque load, so really stall is eliminated. I have researched this, and although i don't remember all of it, i do know the esc needs to have dual feedback loops for each motor. I can try and find all the stuff i have saved if needed, but i think you know what i'm talking about. As for a dual esc for mixing purposes i see no point in it, I'd rather have two micro esc's (smaller than fxr if possible)

02-03-2011, 08:36 AM	#2
Krakker I wanna be Dave Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Where freedom is earned. Posts: 2,011	I assume you're talking about the Novak M2? The ONLY 2 benefits I have seen typed out are that they are looking for ONE unit to plug and play with (maybe it's a lazy thing or a scared of 2 ESC's thing) to reduce wiring connections and or space. TWO, would be the cost of a single unit VS. the cost of buying 2. 3rd I guess might be the "what if's", like getting 2 ESC's in sync or if one poops out then it's de-solder, replace, and re-solder. I have to admit, the idea was attractive, but my feelings on the M2 fiasco are pretty well known.

02-03-2011, 09:07 AM	#3
Scattman Official Cook of the ECC Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Hawthorne, Florida Posts: 2,653	Oh yeah.

02-03-2011, 09:16 AM	#4
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	I'm not really familiar with the m2 or what Novak put in the features. I am just asking for opinions on the matter since I get requests for a dual channel ESC every now and then. In the matter of putting two ESCs in one case, it won't really save any money. The only advantage I can see besides space is having one chunk to mount. The downside is that if it blows up, instead of replacing one $100 ESC you have to replace a $200 ESC. Just thinking out loud, and wondering what other drivers think.

02-03-2011, 12:53 PM	#6
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	Yeah, we talked about that before. The easiest way to do it with dual ESCs would be a velocity loop. I don't see a big benefit though, with a mixing radio the stall can be controlled. With a velocity loop controlling both ESCs you would lose the ability to mix and dig. I do see the benefit to velocity loops though, although I'm not sure if people would like how the throttle felt with them. You wouldn't get any feedback with terrain resistance, it would just keep adding power until something broke.

02-03-2011, 12:56 PM	#7
KBrog RCC Addict Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Earth? Posts: 1,698	A dual channel ESCs with mixing built into the ESC means someone would not have to buy a 500 dollar radio to go along with 2 ESC's. The M2 was a try at that. Dont think it quite got it right. The cost of a 4 channel radio has come down with the 4PL I think it is. But you are still limited to what 4 channel radio's are out there. Futaba or a outdated Nomadio are the only ones I know of on the market now.

02-03-2011, 01:06 PM	#8
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	Instead of trying to build all that mixing into an ESC, it seems that an external device could be used to do the same without locking you into a certain type of ESC. I could swear that somebody built such a thing, but I can't seem to find it now.

02-03-2011, 02:07 PM	#9
Krakker I wanna be Dave Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Where freedom is earned. Posts: 2,011	Novak also had "the dig" which controlled 2 ESC's, but again, if you've already got 2 ESC's why bother with something external to control them? I think (and I could be wrong) that having a separate unit to control the 2 ESC's would only add to the confusion of tuning it/them to sync up perfectly and would only add more "stuff" in the chassis. Perhaps it's a radio issue, but truely only a 3ch. radio is needed for a crawler unless it's a Super or 2.2 running dual servos as well as 2 ESC's or even 1 & a dig unit. (like my girls Bully is.)

02-03-2011, 02:09 PM	#10
jcboof I wanna be Dave Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: I miss Rowdy Posts: 2,238	Keep me informed on how those uncased BRXLs hold up! I'll be next on list for them. I wouldn't be interested in a dual channel esc, just what you have pictured!

02-07-2011, 04:22 PM	#13
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	Doesn't sound like there are too many people that want this. I may put it as an option on the site once more testing is done, but otherwise there isn't a large crowd that even want/ need a dual channel ESC in a single block.

02-07-2011, 06:10 PM	#14
Manning RCC Addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Lowell, Arkansas Posts: 1,307	It would be nice to have a Novak M2 type esc that had the slow speed control of the BRXL. I just like the idea of everything in one box.

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02-07-2011, 08:14 PM	#16
losikid Got Worms? Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 6,116	Anyway one, could do this to their own two br-xl's, or send them to you. I have two now, but they take a godly amount in my lcc chassis, it be awesome if i could fit these and a battery nicely in the bottom if the chassis and not packed in there.

02-07-2011, 08:23 PM	#17
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	How would you guys prefer the wires to come out of the case? All on one side, or something different? Seems that the RX, power, and first motor wires could exit one side with motor two wires exiting opposite. Depends on the rig setup I suppose. Maybe we can do ten of them and satisfy the market

02-07-2011, 09:51 PM	#18
losikid Got Worms? Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 6,116	Probably motor wires on each side so equal length motor wires. oh don't be including me in your tally, just giving my opinion, i'm just in the brushless market now, for new stuff, but I am interested combining my br-xls to save space

02-07-2011, 10:26 PM	#19
paintballer9876 Quarry Creeper Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Punta Gorda, Flo-rida Posts: 453	I have two mamba max's with the plastic cases taken off and somehow managed to stuff them into a t1e chassis. I have a micro sidewinder laying around and was thinking of buying another and trying it as i have seen another guy use it, but i find myself powering out of bad situations which may result in the little sidewinders losing some smoke. I would want to keep the dig/proportional function of my two mambas, wantasummit dig/prop adapter with my dx3r. Unless we are talking an outrageous price i would be in for one and possibly another to replace my dads 2 br-xl's on his xr10.

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