Motor issues

[paintballer9876]

So i am currently having issues with 2 motors right now the first is a 45 turn and the second is a 35 turn. The 45 turn is about 6 months old and has had about 100 packs through it, about 60 packs into it it was rebuilt with new brushes and the comm was lathed down. The 35 turn had about 6 packs through it, both have the same issue. When i move the throttle forward they do nothing, unless i help them spin ( start to spin the tires) once they are going they have as much torque as they always have but the second i let off and start up again they dont move. I have sanded down the brushes in case they where sticking and the springs are applying plenty of force. From the little i know about motors this doesnt sound like i burnt up the motor but something else.

I hope all of this made sense.

Thanks in advance

[EddieO]

If you have any plugs in the motor wires, remove or replace them. I have seen plugs cause this.

IF that and a rebuild don't work, you more than likely have what I've coined as stalling out the arm. Which means you've basically shorted it internally.

Later EddieO

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by EddieO

If you have any plugs in the motor wires, remove or replace them. I have seen plugs cause this.

IF that and a rebuild don't work, you more than likely have what I've coined as stalling out the arm. Which means you've basically shorted it internally.

Later EddieO

what are the most common ways a person shorts out thier motor?

[paintballer9876]

Originally Posted by EddieO

If you have any plugs in the motor wires, remove or replace them. I have seen plugs cause this.

IF that and a rebuild don't work, you more than likely have what I've coined as stalling out the arm. Which means you've basically shorted it internally.

Later EddieO

Its not the connectors since i put them on another motor with no issues. Im using 4mm bullet connectors.

Same question as rock hard

[EeePee]

Originally Posted by paintballer9876

When i move the throttle forward they do nothing, unless i help them spin ( start to spin the tires) once they are going they have as much torque as they always have but the second i let off and start up again they dont move.

This indicates to me they need another cut and clean job.

[EddieO]

Excessive amp draw 99% of the time.....some times you gotta just take the penalty instead of just yanking on the trigger...

No motor is immune to it either...doesn't matter who makes it.

Also, the more voltage you got, the more damage you can do.....I very rarely see it on 2s trucks....

Later EddieO

[rock hard]

Originally Posted by EddieO

Excessive amp draw 99% of the time.....some times you gotta just take the penalty instead of just yanking on the trigger...

No motor is immune to it either...doesn't matter who makes it.

Also, the more voltage you got, the more damage you can do.....I very rarely see it on 2s trucks....

Later EddieO

Good to know..

will this lead to a blown wind at times,or melt the solder clean off the arm?

[paintballer9876]

Originally Posted by EddieO

Excessive amp draw 99% of the time.....some times you gotta just take the penalty instead of just yanking on the trigger...

No motor is immune to it either...doesn't matter who makes it.

Also, the more voltage you got, the more damage you can do.....I very rarely see it on 2s trucks....

Later EddieO

That may explain the 45 turn but the 35 turn had barely 6 packs threw it and all of it was testing, so no powering through it im running on 3s only. I ended up throwing cheap integy motors on it and they have worked fine from day one with exactly the same setup and a lot more abuse. Basically i have a berg coming and i have 2 35turn motors (one is bad) and 2 45 turn motors (one is bad) is it possible i could take the end bell from the good 35turn and put in on the bad 45 turn motor? They are all holmes hobbies torque masters and the end bells are all the same. Or is the issue not in the end bell but in the armature?

[rock hard]

Hmm,you say that the 45t had 100 packs on em with no issue till recently I guess,and now you have a problem,and its showing up in the 35t too,shortly after they was installed.

was they (bad motors) both from the same axle?

[paintballer9876]

Originally Posted by rock hard

Hmm,you say that the 45t had 100 packs on em with no issue till recently I guess,and now you have a problem,and its showing up in the 35t too,shortly after they was installed.

was they (bad motors) both from the same axle?

Nope one was only a losi moa (35t) the other was on a berg (45t)

[rock hard]

are you sure the brushes are making good contact?

I have seen a brush lead become tight and then the spring is unable to
push it enouogh to get good contact with the comm.

When this happens a little push is all it takes and she will go,the brush will continue to wear and thr problem will escelate.

I have seen the brush leads soldered in a manner where they have very little slack to begine with.

[EddieO]

I've seen losis smoke motors in a living room.......they are by far the hardest axles on a motor.....

Your arm is the problem. You cannot really fry an endbell like an arm.....

It doesn't really blow the solder off that I have seen.......I've only had it happen to 4 of my arms since I've been home, but I've seen quite a few from other companies....I have not noticed the solder coming undone. I appears to be some type of short internally. I am gonna unwind the arms I've kept to see if I can figure out exactly what its doing...certainly never anything we saw in racing really.

Later EddieO

[paintballer9876]

I just checked both motors and pushing on the brushes does nothing. I know losi axles are not easy on motors but after buying the motors running them for 20-30 minutes and having issues with the rear motor i took it off and contacted holmes i shipped the old one back and he checked out the motor but unsure what he did and nothing had changed. I bought a $20 integy motor and ran it for 6 months and stalled it out a few times with no issues, never maintained and it finally lost enough torque that i replaced it.

After having that issue i have since just bought cheap motors and have had no issues in any of the crawlers they have been in (losi moa, xr10, berg). Is it possible that you sacrifice reliability for torque when comes to these expensive high end motors. I was hoping to not have to buy another set of integys but it looks like i will.

Before i start to sound like an integy fanatic i would like to say that the holmes motors have incredible torque but at $120 for a set of motors, its difficult for me to buy one with the experiences that i have had with highend motors.

[EddieO]

I've seen a LOT of smoked integys.....they are not immune either.

One thing to point out with the integys, is that because of the way they are built.....other stuff on the motor will give out before you can do certain types of damage, where as a handwound motor will hold up...

Kinda a comparison of what I mean.......your brakes may be good up to 200 mph, but your tires are only rated to 190...they will give long before your brakes will, but put 250 mph tires on....now your brakes can give....

I know its a dumb example......but this is whats happening in a lot of the handwounds that go boom, while an Integy appears to keepion ticking....

Later EddieO

[paintballer9876]

Originally Posted by EddieO

Also want to point out....nothing is wrong with your can and endbell. Unless you can see physical melting on the endbell or a cracked magnet, they are more than likely fine.....

So, a replacement armature is usually around $30. I sell them for $30 including a rebuild if you send in the motor or $30 with brushes to rebuild your stuff on your own.....most prefer to have me do it, as I have much better equipment to rebuild your motor.....

So you can buy $20 integys......or a $30 replacement arm in the event something goes boom.....you don't need to spend $120 because an arm went tits up.......

Later EddieO

I may just have to take you up on that offer, like i said before i love the high torque of the hand wound motors, but if i get bad motor in the integys then i buy another $20-30 motor. If i get a bad motor with a $60 motor then its going to cost much more money. Just out of curiosity at some point i could replace the armatures in my integy motors with a hand wound, would i see the kind of torque that your or holmes hobbies motors give? Or are the magnets on the integy cans weaker?

Thanks

[EddieO]

Like I said though......fry a $20-$30 integy.....spend another $20-$30, as I don't know if they sell replacement arms......they may though. I would guess they would be over $10 if they did.

Fry a handwound arm, spend $30, get replacement. It really ends up a wash once you are past the initial purchase price.

As for putting handwound arms in integys, I do it all the time for customers. Probably 50% of my arm only sales go into integy based motors. Any 7.5mm comm arm works....

Integy magnets are all over the map......so its hard to say which is which magnet in them. They typically do have weaker magnets, especially in the $20 lathe motors.....weaker magnets do tend to provide smoother start up though, its your drag brake and torque that suffer.

That being said, a handwound arm is still a big upgrade for them....I've had reports of people winning comps with my arms in integy cans.

Later EddieO

[paintballer9876]

Originally Posted by EddieO

Like I said though......fry a $20-$30 integy.....spend another $20-$30, as I don't know if they sell replacement arms......they may though. I would guess they would be over $10 if they did.

Fry a handwound arm, spend $30, get replacement. It really ends up a wash once you are past the initial purchase price.

As for putting handwound arms in integys, I do it all the time for customers. Probably 50% of my arm only sales go into integy based motors. Any 7.5mm comm arm works....

Integy magnets are all over the map......so its hard to say which is which magnet in them. They typically do have weaker magnets, especially in the $20 lathe motors.....weaker magnets do tend to provide smoother start up though, its your drag brake and torque that suffer.

That being said, a handwound arm is still a big upgrade for them....I've had reports of people winning comps with my arms in integy cans.

Later EddieO

Well currently im not running the cheap integys im running the "high end" integys (high end and integy shouldnt go in the same sentence should they ). I have v11's which are not horrible but are not axle breakers either, they are fairly new so it will be some time before i would replace them.

My other holmes motors will need to be fixed so the option on your website for $35 is what you where talking about before correct? The com is already lathed down so its nice and round so there wouldnt be much to put in an armature, some brushes and springs into it or am i missing something.

Thanks for all the help rock hard and EddieO.

[JohnRobHolmes]

I have found that these premature dead arms are mostly coming from rear motors. 35t are certainly more susceptible than 45t to the event, although I can't say it is often occurring. The best I can tell it is either the comm gap getting too wide from arcing, or a bad leg. More happen with laydown brushes than with standup, by far. Out of the last 1000 motors I recorded 5 premature deaths, yours being the only standup hood IIRC paintballer.

You say you sent it in to me, but the stalling came back after I returned it. Did you contact me again about the issue? If not, I would like to get the arm back to see why it is happening since my fix didn't last. Sounds like I need to send you a new arm if you only got 6 runs from it.

[paintballer9876]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

I have found that these premature dead arms are mostly coming from rear motors. 35t are certainly more susceptible than 45t to the event, although I can't say it is often occurring. The best I can tell it is either the comm gap getting too wide from arcing, or a bad leg. More happen with laydown brushes than with standup, by far. Out of the last 1000 motors I recorded 5 premature deaths, yours being the only standup hood IIRC paintballer.

You say you sent it in to me, but the stalling came back after I returned it. Did you contact me again about the issue? If not, I would like to get the arm back to see why it is happening since my fix didn't last. Sounds like I need to send you a new arm if you only got 6 runs from it.

The 35turn is stand up and the 45turn is lay down, i never did contact you back since i thought it had to be something else so i replaced the punk dig with the same results then put another motor into it and forgot about it. I was just testing them out again and for some reason i cannot reproduce the issue off the crawler, i no longer use a losi moa so i cant throw it on there. I should have another crawler by wednesday of next week and i will test it, if it works fine then sorry for posting the thread, other wise i will be contacting you. The 45 turn ran for quite awhile so i think i will end up buying a new armature for it. One last question i promise, if i where to buy a new armature for it its basically a drop in replacement correct? The 45 turn has brand new springs and brushes so i wouldn't need any of that.

Thanks again to everyone that has helped with my issue.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Yep, the armature will be a drop in replacement besides getting the shimming right.