Wire Gauge and plug Size

[WAM]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

I use this plug http://holmeshobbies.com/product.php...&cat=11&page=1

Then you just hardwire the BEC into the plug directly and all connections are taken care of. Not the lightest or smallest way, but the cleanest and easiest.

John can you explain that picture a little? Does that $12 item include four pieces?

[mnraaron]

Ok, just read this thread from top to bottom. Lots of info of all kinds, didn't expect to learn about 3 phase on this board

I do have a specific question though, I just got some lipo's 2s 20c 3300mah, they have 10g wire and it is a pain to route. I am running an AX10 with a 27t motor. Can I replace the 10g with a 12 or 14g wire.

Thanks.

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by mnraaron

Ok, just read this thread from top to bottom. Lots of info of all kinds, didn't expect to learn about 3 phase on this board

I do have a specific question though, I just got some lipo's 2s 20c 3300mah, they have 10g wire and it is a pain to route. I am running an AX10 with a 27t motor. Can I replace the 10g with a 12 or 14g wire.

Thanks.

"Learn something new every day!"
Yes, you can drop the wire size (go up in ga #). You already have a limit with the 20C.
If you gear tall (fast) you may notice a slight drop in top speed, otherwise you should be fine.

[samdog]

Awsome info i was about to wire my xr up with 20ga
Glad i found this

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by samdog

Awsome info, I was about to wire my xr up with 20ga.
Glad I found this

Glad you found it useful.

[K1llerRC]

Hey guys, i just got done doing some searching, to avail no true answer was found. Im building my 1st M.O.A Rig and i want to make it Comp ready with out burning a hole in my wallet or end up sleeping in the front lawn!
--Here is what im running- VP Incision Chassi- Lightened Bully Comp 2.2 axles with V4 shafts. A Tekin FXR with A CC 20 amp bec and an 800-3c lipo. Along with a Punk dig switch. For wire im running a 14guage Deans wet noodle and CC 4mm bullets.
So here is the questions i pose:

Motors: Which turns? and which brand, but the most important questions are why?(Because i want to further understand for future builds)

Thanks.

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by K1llerRC

Hey guys, I just got done doing some searching, to avail no true answer was found. I'm building my 1st MOA Rig and I want to make it Comp ready without burning a hole in my wallet or end up sleeping in the front lawn!
--Here is what I'm running- VP Incision Chassis- Lightened Bully Comp 2.2 axles with V4 shafts. A Tekin FXR with A CC 20 amp bec and an 800-3c lipo. Along with a Punk dig switch. For wire I'm running a 14guage Deans wet noodle and CC 4mm bullets.
So here is the questions I pose:

Motors: Which turns? and which brand, but the most important questions are why? (Because I want to further understand for future builds)

Thanks.

Ahhh.....Bully 2.2 question, right up my alley.

I really like 35T brushed motors on 3S (I'm running 3S 1350mah 45C packs) for the wheel speed. Lower turns would likely be a bit much for me, the 40T's I had before were "OK". I'm running dual Mamba Max ESC's with a WannAmix on a Futaba 3PM-x (preferable to the servo dig I had before).
I'm running 35T Fantoms now, Br00ds or Holmes are also good alternatives.
I would try & stick to hand wounds since they seem to last a little longer, it also makes them more cost effective to get rebuilt if you can't do it yourself. Cheap motors are not really worth sending out for rebuilds since the rebuild would be close to just buying a new motor. Cheap motors are worth rebuilding yourself, if you have the tools & time. I have a motor lathe and have been working with these motors since the late 70's, so no biggie for me.
Plus, I work on my sons motors as well.

A CC 10A BEC is likely more than enough, it's what we use.
The 14GA wire is fine.

Check out the Bully forum as well for tons of great info.

[Ola]

I used 14gauge and EC3 on my XR10..

On my 1/8 truggy with a cc1520 on 5s i use EC5 plugs..

If you havent tried the EC3/5 plugs before, i recomend them.. They are real tight together, never gets warm, and are way easier to solder than deans..

I will never buy deans again, after i started using the EC`s..

[EeePee]

Originally Posted by K1llerRC

Hey guys, i just got done doing some searching, to avail no true answer was found.

Motors: Which turns? and which brand, but the most important questions are why?(Because i want to further understand for future builds)

Thanks.

Well if you're searching for what motors to run in a thread about wire size and plugs you're obviously using the wrong key words to search with...

[DiggyStyle]

Originally Posted by EddieO

If memory serves correct, those radios came out after the original sport, but before the new version of the sport. Those were pretty high end, only the rich guys used them really. While they had tons of cool features, they were VERY heavy compared to the magnum sport or junior...arm fatigue can be a big deal in racing.....especially in the gas classes or 1/12th scale. The other issue was they were VERY fragile (must be italian...bonus points to people who get the reference)....even slight drops would knock them out of tune.....they were damn pimp though if you could live with the slight issues with them....

And yes, that motor went boom....the whole point of the test was to see if we could fry it.....first bind and we toasted it...

Later EddieO

Too right! My first pistol was an Magnum Sport also, I think it was the newer version though that had the hand guard on it. I also still have it.
And as for your reference: "Nothing could tear me away from the warm glow of electric sex in the front window." ;)

[Chris_The_Battery_Man]

Originally Posted by EddieO

16 is ok, though I would use 14 if you could. While the micro deans can work, I don't recommend them. Just use a normal deans and call it a day. Plug failure with lipo can lead to your truck turning into a molten fireball...

Later EddieO

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

I use 13ga on everything, but I tend to be a power hog. Everything runs more efficient with bigger wire.

Some guys go down pretty tiny on comp rigs. 16 and 18ga wire is pretty common. They are leaving power on the table though, plenty of voltage drop across those wires when a rig gets bound down. With 18ga at 30 amps there is .5v drop in a system with two total feet of wire (6 inch leads on motor and battery). With 13ga there is 0.15v drop. I will take my 3 times increase of wire efficiency please!


Smaller wire also causes higher ripple voltage, so it beats on the controller harder to deal with smaller wire for a given load.

I only have time to read the first couple replies


A buddy was asking me about this thread. So my info is that 16 is more than enough. I actually use a high quality 18 on all my crawlers. It is much better than the Chineese crap. Im sure you're right to an extent John, but I have been using this wire on my crawlers with dual mamba micro pro's on 4S for at least 4 years. I beat the piss out of my trucks, and put them in holes, bind em, then grab full throttle. Never had an issue.


I will say that bigger wire doesn't hurt from an electrical standpoint, but it is just too much in these small crawlers that dont draw much. At least in comparison to a heavy slash or something like that. But last time I tested, I couldn't get a moa to draw more than 5 amps from a dead stall. Perhaps these newer BA motors will draw more. But the micro pro ESC's are only good to 35 amps, so I am sure I am not getting close to that.


Your data is interesting John, but I will say 1 thing... If I have anymore power than I do now, I won't be able to keep my truck from breaking with those 16t crawlmasters on 4S in it. Plus, I really don't see any comp guys pulling anywhere close to 30 amps. Perhaps I have been dis-connected too long to know what is going on these days, but bursts amperage, and constant as you know are 2 different animals.


So does bigger wire help... yes. Is it necessary? I don't think so. If you have the room for it in like a scaler or super or something, then hell yes. But in these narrow chassis, I wont use anything larger than a nice 16awg. Just because I cant notice a difference in the power. And if I cant, I bet 95% of the crawler crowd cant either

[EddieO]

Have you ever data logged stuff on a crawler? I have, using both a Novak Sentry and the Eagle Tree....if the right binds, I have seen spikes over 100 amps....with 50+ amps not uncommon in a bad bind. You will never see those loads for very long, but they do happen.

Later EddieO

[Chris_The_Battery_Man]

Im aware that spike amperage can happen. This is common. But spike amperage is not relevant. You should know this too.

Take a lighter, and hold the flame on. Then wave your hand over it. Does it burn your hand when you move it over the flame quickly? This same theory can be applied to power.

If the burst amperage was relevant, then the batteries we use would always die. 100 amps is an awful lot for an 850mah lipo. The constant is what matters.

Debating the relevance of spike amperage is no different that arguing that you could get struck by lightning.... 99.9% of the people in the world will never get struck by lightning, just like 99.9% of electric RC'ists will never hurt anything from a burst amperage. I guess I now know how some battery manufacturers are getting away with their ratings. Must be going off of the spike amp draws lol


What kind of amperage were you seeing when you were just driving around? I would be surprised if it were more than an amp or 2

[Chris_The_Battery_Man]

Originally Posted by Ola

I used 14gauge and EC3 on my XR10..

On my 1/8 truggy with a cc1520 on 5s i use EC5 plugs..

If you havent tried the EC3/5 plugs before, i recomend them.. They are real tight together, never gets warm, and are way easier to solder than deans..

I will never buy deans again, after i started using the EC`s..

Those plugs are pretty good. Mainly because they're bullets. Bullets are always better than deans. From my experience, they're a larger chore to solder though. But I guess it's because I have soldered millions of deans plugs in my day.

Im glad to see some people are finding other options to deans. I think they're a little too greedy, and would like to see their business taken

[Stregone]

Originally Posted by Chris_The_Battery_Man

Im aware that spike amperage can happen. This is common. But spike amperage is not relevant. You should know this too.

Take a lighter, and hold the flame on. Then wave your hand over it. Does it burn your hand when you move it over the flame quickly? This same theory can be applied to power.

If the burst amperage was relevant, then the batteries we use would always die. 100 amps is an awful lot for an 850mah lipo. The constant is what matters.

Debating the relevance of spike amperage is no different that arguing that you could get struck by lightning.... 99.9% of the people in the world will never get struck by lightning, just like 99.9% of electric RC'ists will never hurt anything from a burst amperage. I guess I now know how some battery manufacturers are getting away with their ratings. Must be going off of the spike amp draws lol


What kind of amperage were you seeing when you were just driving around? I would be surprised if it were more than an amp or 2

Those bursts happen when you are trying to get maximum power. I would say that it is MOST relevant during these high bursts. You can't go any higher than full throttle. When you do not need maximum power you can simply compensate for any loss with more throttle.

[Fingonunny]

This thread was VERY helpful in my transition from my understanding of passenger car electrical to R/C electrical. Having worked mostly with computer networking and lower amp circuits in luxury cars, this gives me some great insight for transitioning into higher amp circuits on a smaller scale. Thanks a lot guys!

[agent00111]

Originally Posted by Fingonunny

This thread was VERY helpful in my transition from my understanding of passenger car electrical to R/C electrical. Having worked mostly with computer networking and lower amp circuits in luxury cars, this gives me some great insight for transitioning into higher amp circuits on a smaller scale. Thanks a lot guys!

RC cars got me into soldering, soldering got me into electronics, electronics helped me learn about bad capacitors, learning about bad capacitors helped me salvage my ailing samsung LCD tv over the weekend by replacing 3 bulging capacitors. So in a way, my wraith saved my TV. Go figure.

[xkill]

I'd like to have some expert help before I change my electronics.
I have double FXR all done with 14ga wire with some cheap motors.
As for battery's I'm running nanotech 850 and more recently gens ace 800 and 450mah.

Soon I will change to some 45t brood's.

What I noticed is that even if I have 14ga wires on the ESC to motor the battery's have 18ga wire on the nanotech and 20ga (If I'm not mistaken), on the gens ace.

So my question is:
If the wires on the battery's are smaller than the ones from the ESC to motor the power is always limited by the smaller wire right?

And that brings me to the other question:
Do I gain anything (besides weight....) in running 14ga when I have 18ga on the battery or would it make more sense to just change everything to the 18ga?

(I don't feel comfortable changing the wires on the battery's since I'm far from an expert in electronics and soldering and I don't want to have a battery turning my car to ashes)

[Charlie-III]

Originally Posted by xkill

I'd like to have some expert help before I change my electronics.
I have double FXR all done with 14ga wire with some cheap motors.
As for battery's I'm running nanotech 850 and more recently gens ace 800 and 450mah.

Soon I will change to some 45T brood's.

What I noticed is that even if I have 14ga wires on the ESC to motor the battery's have 18ga wire on the nanotech and 20ga (If I'm not mistaken), on the gens ace.

So my question is:
If the wires on the battery's are smaller than the ones from the ESC to motor the power is always limited by the smaller wire right?

And that brings me to the other question:
Do I gain anything (besides weight....) in running 14ga when I have 18ga on the battery or would it make more sense to just change everything to the 18ga?

(I don't feel comfortable changing the wires on the battery's since I'm far from an expert in electronics and soldering and I don't want to have a battery turning my car to ashes)

Great questions....

To a point, yes, the smallest wire is the biggest current limit. You also have to keep in mind the wire length. As the wire gets longer, you lose more voltage (voltage drop) due to wire resistance. So, a short wire on the pack can be smaller than the longer wires running the length of the rig.
Also get decent pack connectors, all the best wire in the world won't fix running Tamiya connectors longterm.

[Hardline]

I agree with Charlie, but would put it differently. Don't think of the smallest wire as a bottleneck which overrides everything else. That's not how it works. Think of each wire as a resistor and they're all in series. So they each resist current flow, but the smallest wires, highest resistance per inch, resist it the most. So keep the small wires as short as possible and keep the remaining wiring larger.

Personally, I'd be flat-out amazed if you could really see a performance difference between a crawler wired with 16ga vs another with 12ga. So I see no need to go overboard. I think 16ga is a good overall choice.