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Old 07-06-2011, 05:13 PM   #1
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Default Novak Timbuk2 Brushless Rock Crawling ESC!

Howdy Crawlers!

I've been running the new Timbuk2 for awhile now, and finally, the cat is out of the bag!

http://www.teamnovak.com/products/esc/1832_timbuk2_esc/index.html


Pre-Orders are being taken now direct from Novak.

http://www.shopatron.com/products/productdetail/part_number=3225/135.0.1.1
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Old 07-06-2011, 05:30 PM   #2
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Great job Novak. I need to stop buy and check it out.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:14 PM   #3
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its looks to be a good goat 2s replacement, but why make it with only a 2s limit and only a 2A internal bec vs. the fairly needed 5A bec. if it had atleast the 3s limit it would be alot more popular.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:30 PM   #4
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I saw this on another forum with the new racing speedo. The new racing speedo is a big improvement in size, performance, etc....not sure on this one though.....its still pretty big, and can only do 2s with a weak BEC.....

I think Novak needs to just release a new brushed crawler esc....nobody runs brushless anyways.

I <3 Charlie

Later EddieO
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO View Post
I <3 Charlie

Later EddieO
Charlie or Charlie-III??

If I can get a discount on a MRC motor & a matched pair of 35T MOA motors, I really don't care......otherwise.......sigh.

(BTW, I DO need a MRC motor and a matched pair of 35T MOA motors......)
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:19 PM   #6
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So, it uses technology that pretty much no one in crawling wants. It doesn't have the actual technology everyone in crawling wants. It doesn't even support 3s, and the bec is pretty much useless for any type of crawling. Way to do your homework.

Seriously Novak, sometimes I wonder why you even bother.

Little news flash here, but roar doesn't govern crawling so what's with all the roar compatible crawling gear.

Last edited by TexasSP; 07-06-2011 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:14 PM   #7
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tamiya plugs, are you effin serious

Thats exactly what amp hungry crawlers need
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:20 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by TexasSP View Post


So, it uses technology that pretty much no one in crawling wants. It doesn't have the actual technology everyone in crawling wants. It doesn't even support 3s, and the bec is pretty much useless for any type of crawling. Way to do your homework.

Seriously Novak, sometimes I wonder why you even bother.

Little news flash here, but roar doesn't govern crawling so what's with all the roar compatible crawling gear.

Not to mention the flat out pathetic warranty. I bought an esc with a broken bottom case (it was installed in a car but was supposed to be new, hobby store said Novak would handle it and they did send me out a new bottom) and when the esc smoked about a month after it was bought they told me the case had been opened and replaced and they would not cover the repair. BUT they would sell me another shitty ESC for $80. Yeah. I can get a sidewinder esc and 3800 motor for $83 with a one year warranty. I can do a charge back with the hobby store, or eat the $160 for the esc/ motor combo. I am half tempted to pay for the exchange stuff and then do a charge back on Novak. I am sure Visa will side with me.

Stay far away from Novak.
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasSP View Post


So, it uses technology that pretty much no one in crawling wants. It doesn't have the actual technology everyone in crawling wants. It doesn't even support 3s, and the bec is pretty much useless for any type of crawling. Way to do your homework.

Seriously Novak, sometimes I wonder why you even bother.

Little news flash here, but roar doesn't govern crawling so what's with all the roar compatible crawling gear.
Agreed, they kept the stupid deal that forces use of their "crawler" motors also. Says updated braking adjust ability, I bet it's still all or nothing though. HEY NOVAK we need to downhill with CONTROL, not freewheel out of control then lockup and flip. We also want the ease of PC programming.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:31 AM   #10
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LOL, gotta love the internet sometimes. Thanks guy.

There are lots of folks out there that still use tamiya plugs.

The price point on this guy was the goal, the BEC works well for a single high torque servo. I thinkt he problem is BEC ratings have been scewed a bit over the years, so we all assume you need a huge number on the rating. Alot has to do with how the BEC responds to the loads as well. Granted a 5 amp one like the Rooster would have been better, but well, it wasn't going to fit in the little ESC....

The downhill freewheel effect is much better in the newer motors because they are built with the bigger rotor, so the motor has more "natural drag". This is closer to the brushed motor response, and improves the down hill a lot, but is not the same as a brushed motor downhill.

This is nothing to do with the ESC. The phenomenon comes from the truck going down hill, and the natural drag of the motor as you pick up the throttle. It makes it feel like the ESC is completely releasing the brake, well, because it is. You can't apply the brakes and the throttle at the same time.
If the motor can't hold the truck's weight through the natural cog/load of the motor, well, the truck rolls. Brushed motors, have a much higher natural cog/load to make them turn, so they hold the truck a bit better with "no brake".
The ESC's on a brushed setup and a brushless are "doing" the same thing, but the motor responds differently. I used to get around this in the early stages of BL in crawlers by very simply making the gear mesh tight.
Yeah I know..... It's not the right way to do it, but it worked well. The motor was always under load, so it free wheeled significantly less if at all. Sounded terrible, but worked.

I'm not how sure this tech is something no one wants, I keep meeting crawlers that use and love the power of brushless. You get ultra slow speed and control, stump pulling torque, and good wheelspeed. I like the 2S option because i can use the same packs in all my race rigs and crawl rigs. Plus massive 2s Runtime for less $. Wheel speed can be close to the 3S stuff with pinions.

If you ever have warranty or service issues, please by all means, feel free to email me directly. csuangka@teamnovak.com We are always glad to help. Manytimes the comunication between us breaks down and the policy robot gets confused. We always to our best to be fair and consider all the facts of the situation. I'm sorry if this has not happened initially, but usually given time it all works out.

Any Novak Questions at all, please do not hesitate to email me, really, csuangka@teamnovak.com

Luv U 2 Eddee

Charlie.

Last edited by Charlie; 07-07-2011 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:57 AM   #11
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I think we need to see some video. Something to show off its wheel speed (clearing sizable gaps) and its more controllable downhill handling. It used a goat 2s for a while and was happy with it until i had a lipo meltdown. The bec dosent bother me i've got several ccbec.

DAve
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:38 AM   #12
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Tough crowd...

We are re-designing our Crawler products; the Timbuk2 is the first item we will be shipping. It replaces our Goat 2S System.
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:00 PM   #13
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I want to jump on here and say a couple things....

First, thanks Novak for at least trying. But, why replace the 2s when your goat 3s is trash? Most people that i crawl with are using 3s-6s lipo. Just saying...

Second, the comments about no one running brushless is just BS. I think Brushless is the way to go, and, if you are running Losi CC, brushless is the ONLY way to go.

Why not produce something that works as well as the CC Mamba Max Pro one cell (no internal BEC since you are going to run an external anyways) and make it as small as the Tekin?
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:57 PM   #14
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My comment with the technology had nothing to do with brushless, it had to do with the programming. The BEC comment is a cop out if there ever was one. Typical Bob Novak style talk trying to down play the competition. Amps are amps and you can't fake that. If the servo draws X amps it draws X amps. There is no trickery in this it is simple electrical fact. A 2 amp bec will not work period. Do some crawling, then get yourself in a bind and you will see how fast the amps spike.

Novak continues to want to do things their own way without really getting a feel for what the majority of people are doing. This is fine when doing something for yourself but not so much when you are competing against Castle and Tekin which have you beat hands down in every category.

Plus, if size was always an issue other than on MOA you wouldn't see all the Holmes ESC's in everyone's rigs. As far as voltage goes higher in my experience higher has always been better. More efficient across the board. This goes from high speed to crawlers. Heck I run 4s in my XR10 because it flat out works better.

Has Novak even noticed that none of the top drivers go anywhere near their products? You might want to think about contacting some of these people for input instead of whoever you have been talking to. Notice how when Futaba started listening to Harley they started dominating the crawler market? There is a reason.

I used to love Novak until I started having issues with the products and then the technology just blew right past you guys. I would love for more competition in the market because it would be better for the consumer. However, it has to be real innovative competition not this.

Last edited by TexasSP; 07-07-2011 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:00 PM   #15
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Texas: Sorry if this offends you, I assure you that is not the intention at all. ALso, I'm not Bob Novak, just in case that was confused. There are plenty of ways to look at things I suppose. I don't think there is any "intention" to try to do anything other then offer good performing products for certain applications. My BEC comment means nothing more then I feel very confident in our BEC's performance for that particular application. I'm sure most will run an external BEC for big loads. Many may be fine. "Thats all" I promise.

We have more things in the works, this is the first step. Our long term goal is to offer an all encompassing rock crawling ESC for both Single and MOA type applications.

I don't think this Timbuk2 is at all intended for MOA Comping...... But if you're a guy that comps a single motor rig, and loves brushless, this is a new option that is smaller then what we had before. External BEC's are fairly common these days for the smaller ESC's. I for one hope that we can offer the 5 amp BEC in this Timbuk2 platform, but for now, that's not the case. Scaler stuff this works great. Ripping around works great. Even for comping single motor stuff, it works fine. I've met lots of folks, that like BL. I know it's hard to believe.

I appreciate and understand why the mentality is to not like what brushless offers for Comp Running in MOA, or today's most challenging courses. I'm hoping to try change that perception.

Competition rock crawling is a market we are lacking in, I won't try to deny that. We're improving things slowly, very slowly, but surely.

This is our first release of what will be a few new rock crawling products, specifically for comping, and non comping applications.

Feel free to email me directly, "anytime" csuangka@teamnovak.com

As always, we appreciate your feedback.


Concrete: 3S brakes are not great, the 2S brakes are able to work differently, and work just like the Goat2S brakes did. They "Lock In". I to am patiently awaiting our built in high voltage high current BEC. There are folks out there that "get away" with the internal BEC's with no issues. Not everyone drives the same blah blah blah, I won't get into all that fun stuff. This ESC is pretty small, and pound for pound performance in the truck, I think it will do well. It should do everything the Goat 2S did, but for the BEC.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:39 PM   #16
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after switching to 3s, i'd rather cut off a toe than go back willingly to 2s....short and simple; gear down, volt up. it works. period. you say that wheelspeed can be equal to 3s, well thats all well and good, till you're gearing the hell out of the motor and thermaling trying to get speed out of it. i am one of those brushless people (losi runner) and you couldn't pay me to jump down to this esc from my mamba max pro. the bec that you keep justifying, it'll run a dig servo, but beyond that i wouldn't trust it or push it to power a high torque steering servo in a comp situation (of course only the brxl has a bec i would trust). with crawlers, voltage is king, especially with brushless, seeing as that most of the people that run brushless are either losi drivers or wicked speed scalers. to make a 2s limit esc and ignore the people that are running nothing but 3s and a few 4s....shows lack of commitment to the crawling sector to me.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
Texas: Sorry if this offends you, I assure you that is not the intention at all. ALso, I'm not Bob Novak, just in case that was confused. There are plenty of ways to look at things I suppose. I don't think there is any "intention" to try to do anything other then offer good performing products for certain applications. My BEC comment means nothing more then I feel very confident in our BEC's performance for that particular application. I'm sure most will run an external BEC for big loads. Many may be fine. "Thats all" I promise.

We have more things in the works, this is the first step. Our long term goal is to offer an all encompassing rock crawling ESC for both Single and MOA type applications.

I don't think this Timbuk2 is at all intended for MOA Comping...... But if you're a guy that comps a single motor rig, and loves brushless, this is a new option that is smaller then what we had before. External BEC's are fairly common these days for the smaller ESC's. I for one hope that we can offer the 5 amp BEC in this Timbuk2 platform, but for now, that's not the case. Scaler stuff this works great. Ripping around works great. Even for comping single motor stuff, it works fine. I've met lots of folks, that like BL. I know it's hard to believe.

I appreciate and understand why the mentality is to not like what brushless offers for Comp Running in MOA, or today's most challenging courses. I'm hoping to try change that perception.

Competition rock crawling is a market we are lacking in, I won't try to deny that. We're improving things slowly, very slowly, but surely.

This is our first release of what will be a few new rock crawling products, specifically for comping, and non comping applications.

Feel free to email me directly, "anytime" csuangka@teamnovak.com

As always, we appreciate your feedback.


Concrete: 3S brakes are not great, the 2S brakes are able to work differently, and work just like the Goat2S brakes did. They "Lock In". I to am patiently awaiting our built in high voltage high current BEC. There are folks out there that "get away" with the internal BEC's with no issues. Not everyone drives the same blah blah blah, I won't get into all that fun stuff. This ESC is pretty small, and pound for pound performance in the truck, I think it will do well. It should do everything the Goat 2S did, but for the BEC.
It sounds like you guys might be making an effort at least. Look into what the majority of people run and give us a good esc to match what we want and you guys could have a "good" name in the crawling world again. Here are my demands:
1. Ditch the bec all together. We are gonna run external anyway and temps will be cooler on the esc itself

2. Size matters! Use those tiny fets to your fullest. Once again the external bec will help this

3 Can we please have solder posts?

4. Save the brushless for your fast lines of things. I personally find it silly to pay extra for the ability to run something I never will. Brushed is the crawling king and will be for long to come. I know others may run brushless but you would make more sales in the crawling world catering to us brushed folk. In short we don't need brushed/brushless capable

5. Tell us what you want about power ratings but in general us crawlers are power hungry sobs. I wouldn't run 2s on a mini let alone a 2.2 or super. Give us 4s ability and stand behind it.

6. Keep the nice onboard programing. It has always worked well for me.

&. sub $100 area on pricing please
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:28 PM   #18
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Limiting voltage to 2s causes me to not even consider it nor care about any other feature it has.
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:36 PM   #19
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The way i see it is this esc/motor combo would be only good for a person who loves brushless and is just starting out in crawling. if it had atleast 3s or even 4s lipo capability it would be better since thats what most people run and the main crawlers that use brushless are the losi 2.2 platforms (i used a novak crawler motor in mine, but hated the 14mm rotor the 12.3mm was tons better). the 2a bec may work for the lower end high torque servos and dig servos or at very least it has one so we can use it to power the rx when the cc bec is powering our HV servos. i would like to see a small 3s or even 4s brushed crawler esc with pc programming to come out from you guys at a resonable price to compete with the tekin fx-r
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuuuuuuude View Post
Limiting voltage to 2s causes me to not even consider it nor care about any other feature it doesn't have.
Fixed it for ya...lol

After my "warranty" experience with my Rooster esc years ago I have not bought anything Novak. Watching everybody burn up Goats and many other problems, I'm still happy with my decision to run other brands of ESC,motor, etc. I could point out all the weaknesses of this new setup, but it looks to have been covered in detail already. ;)

Brushless is not needed for crawling...but I love my Mamba Monster in my Slash 4x4...run on 3s and sometimes oh my gosh...4s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasSP View Post
My comment with the technology had nothing to do with brushless, it had to do with the programming. The BEC comment is a cop out if there ever was one. Typical Bob Novak style talk trying to down play the competition. Amps are amps and you can't fake that. If the servo draws X amps it draws X amps. There is no trickery in this it is simple electrical fact. A 2 amp bec will not work period. Do some crawling, then get yourself in a bind and you will see how fast the amps spike.

Novak continues to want to do things their own way without really getting a feel for what the majority of people are doing. This is fine when doing something for yourself but not so much when you are competing against Castle and Tekin which have you beat hands down in every category.

Plus, if size was always an issue other than on MOA you wouldn't see all the Holmes ESC's in everyone's rigs. As far as voltage goes higher in my experience higher has always been better. More efficient across the board. This goes from high speed to crawlers. Heck I run 4s in my XR10 because it flat out works better.

Has Novak even noticed that none of the top drivers go anywhere near their products? You might want to think about contacting some of these people for input instead of whoever you have been talking to. Notice how when Futaba started listening to Harley they started dominating the crawler market? There is a reason.

I used to love Novak until I started having issues with the products and then the technology just blew right past you guys. I would love for more competition in the market because it would be better for the consumer. However, it has to be real innovative competition not this.
Very well said.

Last edited by Natedog; 07-07-2011 at 04:01 PM.
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