Holmes Hobbies Motor Troubleshoot

[ModTrialsRider]

Greetings RCC.

First and foremost, I'm still entirely new to the whole scene (first post too.) I know very little to nothing of electric motors and am therefore looking for some helpful advice that (hopefully) I will be able understand. I've tried to get a hold of the owner of Holmes via this forum but seem to be blocked, therefore I am asking it here.

I have recently purchased a Holmes Hobbies Handwound Pro 35T Brushed motor. It is installed in a week-old Axial RTR Trail Honcho, with all the original electronics, ESC, and RX that came with the truck from the factory. I am running two 6-Cell NiMH right now as well.

My Holmes motor (at 1/4 throttle or less, which is the crawl range) is extremely unsmooth, and jolts the whole rig similarly to a 1:1 vehicle slipping a clutch. It runs decently quiet, and has no problems at full throttle and appears to have no problem under severe traction load (i.e. pushing it up against a wall with light throttle.) Also, please note that it is not anything hardware related elsewhere in the truck as the stock Axial 27T Brushed motor ran buttery smooth and flawlessly. LHS supports this.

My LHS couldn't seem to lend much advice, and claimed changing to Lipo's would help as it appeared the motor was not receiving the proper power (stock ESC and motor are lower voltage apparently.) Once they placed a fully charged 3-cell 2200 Lipo in it however, the problem remained.

Again, I am new to this. Changing the timing of the can, doing anything requiring advanced soldering or anything of the like is still completely foreign to me. I am out of theory's and patience. If anyone has similar issue's and can offer any tips or trick, please let me know.

Huge TIA.

[Duuuuuuuude]

1. Welcome to RCC!
2. Holmes is no longer taking pm's here. He's gotten so busy he's accepting emails only.
3. Be wary of what your lhs tries to sell you. Luckily you tried a battery before they sold you one.
4. Do you have another speed control you can test the motor with? Its very odd to have one behave like that...
5. How is the pinion/spur gear mesh?
6. Are you sure there is no binding in the drivetrain anywhere?
7. Does the motor get hot after a few minutes of running?

[ModTrialsRider]

1. Thank you so much!!!
2. I totally understand. My choice to post here is probably better as I may be able to receive a higher range of help from other forums users.
3. Yes, but I do trust these guys very much. Tammies Hobbies, Beaverton OR. I believe a few are crawler champions?
4. I do not. First crawler and therefore do not have much.
5. I believe well enough. I've had it uninstalled and installed several times, the result is the same. Propped the original Axial 27T motor back in, worked like magic.
6. Positive there is no binding. I've noticed the motor shaft, to turn by hand, is extremely rough and difficult, more so than the original motor.
7. The performance is so bad (and ugly to watch) that I have not ran it for more than a few minutes. Motor temp to my knowledge is fine, nothing I have noticed yet. Some very light sparking, especially from forward to reverse, but have read elsewhere on here that a little is normal for new brushed motors.

[Duuuuuuuude]

Plenty of people run those motors on 7-8 volts so I highly doubt that that is your problem, and frankly I'm shocked that that particular shop would suggest it needed more power. Although...they do work wonderfully at higher voltage.

That motor will seem to turn harder by hand because it has stronger magnets. Perfectly normal.

Light sparking is also not an issue.

Have you tried running the motor without a load, meaning either out of the truck or moved over far enough so that the gears are not meshed? Also, when the motor is free, pick the truck up and give the wheels a spin just to be sure nothing is binding. If they don't spin easy you need to figure out why they don't.

When you spin the motor by hand is there any end play in the shaft? You should be able to push/pull the pinion and shaft in/out just a tiny bit.

Are there any new noises that the truck makes with the 35t vs the 27t?

[ModTrialsRider]

Your last post got me re-thinking.

I removed the pinion gear, and each drive-shaft until I found what I was looking for. I now see/hear a noise pattern in time with rotation of the spur gear, which appears to be minutely out of round. The pattern "sounds" to be consistent with the previous lurching movement of the truck.

I think I may have jumped the gun a bit. Could be now transmission (spur/pinion) problem??

[Duuuuuuuude]

That could very well be. A spur being a little bit out of round is not uncommon. Reinstall the motor, set the mesh, and check it all the way around the spur gear. Adjust as needed.

[ridepate]

It takes some time for the brushes to conture to the armature and get "rounded" or broke-in so to speak. Thus the high spark rate, and maybe the cause of some "jumpyness".

[Cordwood]

How tight exactly are you setting your pinion/spur mesh? I doubt that's the issue because it would likely cause a similar issue with the 27T motor. Unless the 27T was installed with looser mesh. I'm curious how the Holmes motor spins not engaged with the spur.

There shouldnt be any issues with the brushes on the comm because Holmes website says he breaks the motors in for immediate installation and use. Try sending Holmes an email from his website. He isnt on here much anymore. Or maybe try over at the ebike website, endless-sphere.com. He posts over there almost daily and might be easier to track down.

[JesterSpec]

I have the same problem with spur being out of round. I marked the "high" spot on the spur, and I set the mesh there, then test the mesh throughout the rotation. You'll see exactly what you described by setting the mesh to the low spot so when you hit the high area, the mesh is way to tight.

[Charlie-III]

Spur/pinion gear mesh may be an issue as mentioned.
Also check the brush leads. I see many people that like to "hide" the brush leads. This can hang them up on the brush hoods reducing the brush contact to the comm.
Also make sure the brushes move easily (lightly pull on the brush leads) and see if the brushes slide back and forth with no catching.

The magnets in the HH motor are likely a bit stronger than the 27T motor, that may account for the "hard to spin" you are seeing. I usually leave a pinion gear on the motor shaft to give me some more leverage when spinning a motor.

Your 6 cell NiMH is like a 2S LiPO, jumping up in voltage is almost always a good thing but your ESC may not like it.

[ModTrialsRider]

Thanks to all for the help so far.

I soldered my old stock Axial 27T motor back in, and the problem remains. This now appears to be a drive-train/running gear issue, and no longer a motor issue.

An apology to Mr. Holmes, the motor appears to be in perfect working order. Thanks again for all the help thus far. I'll now have to re-troubleshoot and see what's going on with my new rig.