Motor part interchangeability

[Formiga]

Hi. I lurk, I'm socially awkward and don't say much. So here goes!
I'm building a SCX10 dingo, and trying to decide how I want to power it. (Sounds like my intro at RC ANON) After much reading...

Thinking about options to get 8-9kph, with 3s;
Going the route that Federally did here and picking up a low kv in runner to go with my Sidewinder SV2.

Using one of my Novak SS Pro 21.5 cans with the ballistic 14mm crawling rotors with my SV2.

Using my 55t tekin hand wound, with my AX10 2.2 wheel/tire combo. Don't like this one, look crappy under a dingo.

Buying one of the $30-40 brushed 35t motors like the Integy, HH, Tamiya. Or the cheaper Novak, Losi throwaways.

So now for the questions. After seeing this I looked at a Tamiya Super Stock BZ can and that Tekin and the armatures and end bells are interchangeable. The armatures can swap back and forth and seem to require some shimming to be able to do so. Will the HH armatures and endbells fit these cans? Where can I find more information on how to shim for endplay and positioning of the armature in relationship to the brushes.

I see some appeal to being able to swap around armatures and service them myself. I get to do this with 1:1 stuff professionally, and enjoy anything that I can take apart and put back together!

[SMR 510RR]

Since the sidewinder is not sensored I say go brushed. I dont have the knowleadge to know exactly what is interchangeable between the mentioned motors but I am sure if you contacted either Holmes or Br00d they would be able to hook you up with arms for just about any can or tell you if your cans are any good.

This is a good thread with a lot of good information it in, there are a lot of people talking about cans and arms and putting X in Y and whatnot. It also goes into detail about tweaking stuff and tinkering with motors in general.
Cutting a motor commutator & motor tweaks

[JohnRobHolmes]

The parts do interchange with no hassle. Just make sure you get an endbell that fits the commutator size of the armature. All the endbells I carry fit 10mm commutators, except the standard Checkpoint (2012 Team) endbells which fit 7.5mm comms.

Shimming is pretty straight forwards. Generally you use one 0,020 (chrome) shim on the bottom and one fiber, 0,020, and 0,010 shim on top for Sagami based motors. All motors are a bit different though, and I provide plenty of shims with the armatures. You want just a tic of play inside the motor so the bearings aren't getting a side load.

[Formiga]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

The parts do interchange with no hassle. Just make sure you get an endbell that fits the commutator size of the armature. All the endbells I carry fit 10mm commutators, except the standard Checkpoint (2012 Team) endbells which fit 7.5mm comms.

Shimming is pretty straight forwards. Generally you use one 0,020 (chrome) shim on the bottom and one fiber, 0,020, and 0,010 shim on top for Sagami based motors. All motors are a bit different though, and I provide plenty of shims with the armatures. You want just a tic of play inside the motor so the bearings aren't getting a side load.

Awesome, I wasn't expecting a response from you John, thank you! Maybe you can answer this. With 1:1 bearings, appropriate endplay can be pretty critical. As I have the means to measure, what is a tic? Are you talking 1mm or 0.1mm?

Originally Posted by SMR 510RR

Since the sidewinder is not sensored I say go brushed. I dont have the knowleadge to know exactly what is interchangeable between the mentioned motors but I am sure if you contacted either Holmes or Br00d they would be able to hook you up with arms for just about any can or tell you if your cans are any good.

This is a good thread with a lot of good information it in, there are a lot of people talking about cans and arms and putting X in Y and whatnot. It also goes into detail about tweaking stuff and tinkering with motors in general.
Cutting a motor commutator & motor tweaks

I've read through that, and found some very good information, there and elsewhere. But very little about shimming. And I'm inclined to agree with you about brushed vs brushless with my CC Sidewinder SV2, but not for low speed startup. Still considering brushless, as this model won't need that .5kph smoothness, what I can achieve as far as that goes with sensorless brushless would be acceptable for this application. The rebuildable/interchangable of brushed is what is appealing to my tech nature.

[JohnRobHolmes]

I generally shoot for 0.005" of play, but 0.015 is generally acceptable. The most important thing is to have enough shims on the top so that the comm doesn't crash into the hood, and enough shim on the bottom so the winds don't rub the can.


I try to catch tech questions on here when possible, but email is by far the most reliable way to reach me now.

[SMR 510RR]

Originally Posted by Formiga

Awesome, I wasn't expecting a response from you John, thank you! Maybe you can answer this. With 1:1 bearings, appropriate endplay can be pretty critical. As I have the means to measure, what is a tic? Are you talking 1mm or 0.1mm?


I've read through that, and found some very good information, there and elsewhere. But very little about shimming. And I'm inclined to agree with you about brushed vs brushless with my CC Sidewinder SV2, but not for low speed startup. Still considering brushless, as this model won't need that .5kph smoothness, what I can achieve as far as that goes with sensorless brushless would be acceptable for this application. The rebuildable/interchangable of brushed is what is appealing to my tech nature.

Well if you dont care about a smooth bottom end then you can go sensorless brushless. I would check out the Castle 1410 or Tenshock sc401 as both of these motors are designed to run on a sensorless ESC.

[Formiga]

Originally Posted by SMR 510RR

Well if you dont care about a smooth bottom end then you can go sensorless brushless. I would check out the Castle 1410 or Tenshock sc401 as both of these motors are designed to run on a sensorless ESC.

It's not that I don't care about smooth bottom end, this model will spend most of it's time while moving, travelling 4-8kmh. So it's not critical. CC 1410 is 3800kv, Tenshock sc401 is 4600kv both way to fast for my application. I want to hit 1500kv, give or take a little. That kind of kv with appropriate gearing and voltage will have very little cogging and surging for sensorless, and be acceptable for what I want.

Edit...
If the CC Sidewinder SV2 was 4s capable like it's predecessor I wouldn't even consider brushed, at that point I know I could gear down enough with the extra voltage to have no cogging/surging

[Meatwad]

Originally Posted by SMR 510RR

Well if you dont care about a smooth bottom end then you can go sensorless brushless. I would check out the Castle 1410 or Tenshock sc401 as both of these motors are designed to run on a sensorless ESC.

I wouldn't recommend anything brushless sensorless except for maybe some select outrunners for crawling. That statement is from plenty of frustration and different setups

[SMR 510RR]

Originally Posted by Meatwad

I wouldn't recommend anything brushless sensorless except for maybe some select outrunners for crawling. That statement is from plenty of frustration and different setups

Neither would I hence my earlier suggestion of the brushed motor...Im not sure of the intended purpose here but it seems he isnt concerned with cogging.

[Meatwad]

Originally Posted by SMR 510RR

Neither would I hence my earlier suggestion of the brushed motor...Im not sure of the intended purpose here but it seems he isnt concerned with cogging.

True, intended purpose will dictate. If its not crawling per se and mostly trail running the story will be different. For myself in some technical scaler situations the cogging killed me, sensored brushless I prefer but brushed is a lot cheaper.

[Formiga]

Originally Posted by SMR 510RR

Neither would I hence my earlier suggestion of the brushed motor...Im not sure of the intended purpose here but it seems he isnt concerned with cogging.

Trail runner, something to roam with family while out adventuring. It will see sidewalks, gravel, and dirt paths.

Originally Posted by Meatwad

I wouldn't recommend anything brushless sensorless except for maybe some select outrunners for crawling. That statement is from plenty of frustration and different setups

What all have you tried for low kv sensorless? And what didn't work? What motor is this? Is it your CC MMP/1415 combo? That CC 1415 can looks like it comes in 1100-4100kv, which version of that can did you try? How was it geared, with what voltage/amperage?

[Meatwad]

Good find but the 1415 motor is 2400kv. Tried 2s/3s/4s with a few different gearing combinations. 12-18 motor pinions and 52/54/68 spurs. My idea was that gearing low enough along with the low gearing in 1st would get rid of the cogging. And for the most part I got it to work, but in certain precarious situations I didn't trust it. Like I said, for trail running sensorless is fine. Also as far as outrunners I tried one scorpion 3000kv and a cheap hk 1100kv.

My current setup thats working for me is a mmp and tekin pro4 3300kv motor on 2s/5000mah/30c packs. Smooth and powerful

[Formiga]

Hmm, that got off topic. I still haven't decided how I'll end up providing power, I'll start a build thread sooner or later and document it. Thanks for the input!