RCCrawler Forums

JohnRobHolmes · 09-17-2006, 06:05 PM

This is the spot to post up your Novak Crawler system experiences, loves, hates, problems, etc.

I just got mine installed and running on Friday. This is the first sensored brushless I have owned. I will admit that I was a bit skeptical. The initial impression- This system absolutely blew me away! There are ups and downs just like any other setup, but WOW!

I tried out the Novak Crawler system in The Beaver. The current build is pretty stable and solid. The weak links in The Beaver are probably the lack of servo saver (20mph crash breaks aluminum horns) and the Pede tranny diff gear. Narrowed Twin Force axles mated to Maxx sized wheels that are smaller than stock make the build near bulletproof and I can really push gearing in both directions if the motor allows. On to the specs.

Novak Crawler System (18.5 wind Velociti can, 2,700KV, 5 amp BEC)
7 Cell GP3700's
26.928 final geardown
Maxx masher tires
vehicle weight, estimated 10 pounds.

I ran this setup in a creek bed that is behind my house and at Capen park locally. I would give the top speed somewhere around 10-15 mph with the gearing I had. The slowest crawlable speed matched OR beat a super rooster w/ 55t lathe, Mamba w/ Outrunner, Quark w/ Outrunner, and tekin2 w/ 55t lathe. This throttle has the best resolution and feel I have ever used. It really made a slow crawl easier and fast speeds possible at the same time! It also has ZERO reverse delay. I could change from forwards to reverse almost 10 times in one second, I timed it. The motor obviously has a lot of power too. It is a medium can 380 shaft motor with a 2 magnetic pole rotor. The sensor makes the can a little longer.

A few things caught my attention during the setup and crawl. First is the drag brake. Even at 95% drag brake, it is nothing like the drag brake of an outrunner motor. I would equate it to the drag of an integy 55t with 8 tooth pinion through clod axles OR LESS. On a step incline the Novak Crawler system would allow my rig to careen down the hill at a frighteningly fast pace if I didnt control the rig otherwise. The second item that caught my attention is the "locked rotor dection" of the sytem. If you are giving any throttle amount when the tires do not move for a full second, the esc goes to neutral for 3-5 seconds. I remembered hearing that this would be taken out of the program, but it was not on my system. Combine the two issues and what do you get? A rig that tumbles back down rocks when you bind the tire for a sec and dont let up!! Not cool. Mark this system off my *comp worthy* list for now.

(The Beaver was propped against the wall and she rolled down and scared me just now

) So how did it handle? My rig was almost like a basher, fast and nimble but able to crawl sooooo slow and deliberate. This is THE ULTIMATE scale rig system!! Combined with a lower turn SS motor the Crawler programmed ESC would have even more punch and getup. Can this think break TLT axles? Yes. Can it break Pede internals? Maybe. Does it have the torque of a 2820 outrunner? Nope. But it can be geared fast, keep enough torque to crawl, AND have the super buttery smooth low end throttle resolution. Can you tell I am excited bout this?

The hard numbers-- I crawled for an hour the first outing. Lots of full throttle bouncy action and lots of crawling slow. I immediatly recharged my battery and it took 2700 mAH. WOW! Thats pretty good for a meduim size rig with this kind of speed. The motor temp when I was done was 139F. Plenty of headroom on that. ESC didnt get more than warm really. Batteries were cooler than when I charged em, around 115F. I could gear up more If I wanted. I could also gear down considerably, as my pinion was 18t 32 pitch.

My opinion is that this is great system, even for the price. A comparable outrunner system would be comp worthy, lighter and cheaper, but not have the speed range of the Novak. A comparable sensorless inrunner setup would cost the same and have a higher power rating, but it would NOT be crawl worthy at all. The Novak fits into a perfect nitch of the Scale/ Trail/ Basher that can still crawl. Bottom line, I want another one.

Cole82 · 09-17-2006, 06:15 PM

Great write up.
I guess I could have waited an hour to see this post instead of pm you.

microgoat · 09-17-2006, 06:34 PM

Presumably the locked-rotor protection is there to keep the rotor from fragging if it gets bound. The magnetic field will tear it to bits if it's not allowed to rotate.

I never got the LR to kick in except when my pack was about to dump. I usually broke something first

A slipper clutch would help avoid both breakage and LR problems.

I kept asking for more drag brake during testing, but I've been spoiled by outrunners that yank the rear wheels off the ground as soon as you release the trigger. Comparing the DB on this one to the Mamba Max, they're pretty close at the max setting. That's probably as good as inrunners get for DB. Active braking, on the other hand, is pretty stellar.

Adjust your driving style a bit, and you could compete with it.

I can't wait to get started on the F-350 build.

JohnRobHolmes · 09-17-2006, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by microgoat

Adjust your driving style a bit, and you could compete with it.

I couldnt agree more. I just like the advantage I get with the super drag brake of an outrunner. Downhill sections are like butter. The LR programming still bugs me enough to keep it out of a comp rig though, at least until I program myself to deal with it

Soya · 09-27-2006, 05:00 PM

Is the crawler motor compatible with a mamba maxx esc?

jason · 09-27-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

The second item that caught my attention is the "locked rotor dection" of the sytem. If you are giving any throttle amount when the tires do not move for a full second, the esc goes to neutral for 3-5 seconds.

So if during a comp you pull up onto a wall and have to hold the throttle just a bit to hold the vehicle while you figure out your next line, it'll just go into neutral and roll away?

If so that pretty takes it out of the competition scene.

JasonInAugusta · 09-27-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason

So if during a comp you pull up onto a wall and have to hold the throttle just a bit to hold the vehicle while you figure out your next line, it'll just go into neutral and roll away?

If so that pretty takes it out of the competition scene.

Yes.

At Capen park I almost lost Ralph off a 30ft cliff into a creek because of the locked rotor detection.

Was also kicking in at Flatirons.

K_B · 09-27-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soya

Is the crawler motor compatible with a mamba maxx esc?

Don't think so. The Mamba system is sensorless and the Novak system is sensored...

Mad Scientist · 09-27-2006, 08:45 PM

Nice review. Sounds like it would make an excellent setup for the "mostly basher, sometimes crawler" types out there, such as myself

Soya · 09-27-2006, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_B

Don't think so. The Mamba system is sensorless and the Novak system is sensored...

But I think you can run a sensored motor on a sensorless controller, because it just wouldn't be using the sensor part of it, just acting like a sensorless motor.

I'm not sure, so does anybody know?

Highmark · 09-27-2006, 09:59 PM

Excellent review JRH, I felt exactly the same way when I drove it.

If Novak could figure out how to get that system to drag break it would be perfect IMO. The power and control was damn near addictive

Allthough I must say I've been extremely impressed with my Quark/Revolver combos in Alf, the COG difference alone is freakin amazing.

microgoat · 09-28-2006, 05:25 AM

Running the Novak in my Hi-Lift with the drag brake set at 7, it comes down from a stop RIGHT NOW, but won't hold that position.

I think Novak is working with a racing definition of DB rather than a crawling definition. Think I'll fire off another e-mail.

Soya, you're correct. Just don't use the sensor.

Soya · 09-28-2006, 05:59 AM

So my ESC won't go poof then?

microgoat · 09-28-2006, 02:52 PM

No poof. You'll just have some extra wires to deal with.

Charlie at Novak recommends a sintered rotor for improved braking. I got a sintered rotor with my Crawler system, so I'm gonna toss it in there (if it's the same one he's talking about, but how many can there be?) and see how much it helps.

EDIT: Braking is definitely improved. It takes more effort to initiate a roll-back, but once it's going, it keeps on rolling :(

Novak's engineers will try to reprogram the software and see what they can come up with, now that we're all on the same page.

microgoat · 09-29-2006, 03:15 PM

Started another round of e-mails with Charlie at Novak. He's gonna get the engineering gnomes on the case and see what they can come up with for what they're calling a hold-brake.

dezfan · 09-29-2006, 03:22 PM

With the input from the crawling community, the Novak system can only get better!

Keep after them Stu!

microgoat · 09-29-2006, 03:23 PM

woof.

JohnRobHolmes · 09-29-2006, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soya

But I think you can run a sensored motor on a sensorless controller, because it just wouldn't be using the sensor part of it, just acting like a sensorless motor.

I'm not sure, so does anybody know?

You can use the Novak Crawler motor with the mamba maxx ESC, but you wouldnt be able to crawl with the setup because of the 2 pole rotor in combination with a non-sensored ESC. It would just be a motor that ran like a stock tamiya can motor with long runtimes.

Tynman81 · 10-03-2006, 09:28 PM

hey microgoat, i'm holding off on buying anything motor or esc wise till i hear some good news from you on your progress with Novak. I was looking into this setup already, and thank you much jrh for the great review on it. if Novak gets some kind of fix for that db issue tell them they've got another customer. probably more than just me too, as hearing jrh this excited about it means something to me. a kick a** setup from a company like Novak would certainly alleviate some of the stocking issues i'm finding with other comparable systems at the moment. if they'll work faster with more outside feedback, let us know so we can team up on 'em. Thanks guys.

racerx · 10-04-2006, 07:30 AM

I picked one of these up the other day for my BB- scale build, have not finished it so I can't tell if I like it or not yet. If I was going off of looks alone I love this motor! No boring steel can, just cool machined aluminum, the other thing is all the dang wires! This thing has like 15 to 20 feet of wires coming out of it, no biggie though just harder to route. I can't wait to try her out.

09-17-2006, 06:05 PM	#1
JohnRobHolmes owner, Holmes Hobbies LLC Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Volt up! Gear down! Posts: 20,290	Novak Crawler Review/ Tech thread This is the spot to post up your Novak Crawler system experiences, loves, hates, problems, etc. I just got mine installed and running on Friday. This is the first sensored brushless I have owned. I will admit that I was a bit skeptical. The initial impression- This system absolutely blew me away! There are ups and downs just like any other setup, but WOW! I tried out the Novak Crawler system in The Beaver. The current build is pretty stable and solid. The weak links in The Beaver are probably the lack of servo saver (20mph crash breaks aluminum horns) and the Pede tranny diff gear. Narrowed Twin Force axles mated to Maxx sized wheels that are smaller than stock make the build near bulletproof and I can really push gearing in both directions if the motor allows. On to the specs. Novak Crawler System (18.5 wind Velociti can, 2,700KV, 5 amp BEC) 7 Cell GP3700's 26.928 final geardown Maxx masher tires vehicle weight, estimated 10 pounds. I ran this setup in a creek bed that is behind my house and at Capen park locally. I would give the top speed somewhere around 10-15 mph with the gearing I had. The slowest crawlable speed matched OR beat a super rooster w/ 55t lathe, Mamba w/ Outrunner, Quark w/ Outrunner, and tekin2 w/ 55t lathe. This throttle has the best resolution and feel I have ever used. It really made a slow crawl easier and fast speeds possible at the same time! It also has ZERO reverse delay. I could change from forwards to reverse almost 10 times in one second, I timed it. The motor obviously has a lot of power too. It is a medium can 380 shaft motor with a 2 magnetic pole rotor. The sensor makes the can a little longer. A few things caught my attention during the setup and crawl. First is the drag brake. Even at 95% drag brake, it is nothing like the drag brake of an outrunner motor. I would equate it to the drag of an integy 55t with 8 tooth pinion through clod axles OR LESS. On a step incline the Novak Crawler system would allow my rig to careen down the hill at a frighteningly fast pace if I didnt control the rig otherwise. The second item that caught my attention is the "locked rotor dection" of the sytem. If you are giving any throttle amount when the tires do not move for a full second, the esc goes to neutral for 3-5 seconds. I remembered hearing that this would be taken out of the program, but it was not on my system. Combine the two issues and what do you get? A rig that tumbles back down rocks when you bind the tire for a sec and dont let up!! Not cool. Mark this system off my comp worthy list for now. (The Beaver was propped against the wall and she rolled down and scared me just now ) So how did it handle? My rig was almost like a basher, fast and nimble but able to crawl sooooo slow and deliberate. This is THE ULTIMATE scale rig system!! Combined with a lower turn SS motor the Crawler programmed ESC would have even more punch and getup. Can this think break TLT axles? Yes. Can it break Pede internals? Maybe. Does it have the torque of a 2820 outrunner? Nope. But it can be geared fast, keep enough torque to crawl, AND have the super buttery smooth low end throttle resolution. Can you tell I am excited bout this? The hard numbers-- I crawled for an hour the first outing. Lots of full throttle bouncy action and lots of crawling slow. I immediatly recharged my battery and it took 2700 mAH. WOW! Thats pretty good for a meduim size rig with this kind of speed. The motor temp when I was done was 139F. Plenty of headroom on that. ESC didnt get more than warm really. Batteries were cooler than when I charged em, around 115F. I could gear up more If I wanted. I could also gear down considerably, as my pinion was 18t 32 pitch. My opinion is that this is great system, even for the price. A comparable outrunner system would be comp worthy, lighter and cheaper, but not have the speed range of the Novak. A comparable sensorless inrunner setup would cost the same and have a higher power rating, but it would NOT be crawl worthy at all. The Novak fits into a perfect nitch of the Scale/ Trail/ Basher that can still crawl. Bottom line, I want another one. Attached Images Last edited by JohnRobHolmes; 09-17-2006 at 08:21 PM.

09-28-2006, 05:25 AM	#12
microgoat I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 8,009	Running the Novak in my Hi-Lift with the drag brake set at 7, it comes down from a stop RIGHT NOW, but won't hold that position. I think Novak is working with a racing definition of DB rather than a crawling definition. Think I'll fire off another e-mail. Soya, you're correct. Just don't use the sensor. Last edited by microgoat; 09-28-2006 at 05:30 AM.

09-28-2006, 02:52 PM	#14
microgoat I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 8,009	No poof. You'll just have some extra wires to deal with. Charlie at Novak recommends a sintered rotor for improved braking. I got a sintered rotor with my Crawler system, so I'm gonna toss it in there (if it's the same one he's talking about, but how many can there be?) and see how much it helps. EDIT: Braking is definitely improved. It takes more effort to initiate a roll-back, but once it's going, it keeps on rolling :( Novak's engineers will try to reprogram the software and see what they can come up with, now that we're all on the same page. Last edited by microgoat; 09-28-2006 at 05:41 PM.

09-17-2006, 06:15 PM	#2
Cole82 I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Cedar Rapids Posts: 2,028	Great write up. I guess I could have waited an hour to see this post instead of pm you.

09-17-2006, 06:34 PM	#3
microgoat I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 8,009	Presumably the locked-rotor protection is there to keep the rotor from fragging if it gets bound. The magnetic field will tear it to bits if it's not allowed to rotate. I never got the LR to kick in except when my pack was about to dump. I usually broke something first A slipper clutch would help avoid both breakage and LR problems. I kept asking for more drag brake during testing, but I've been spoiled by outrunners that yank the rear wheels off the ground as soon as you release the trigger. Comparing the DB on this one to the Mamba Max, they're pretty close at the max setting. That's probably as good as inrunners get for DB. Active braking, on the other hand, is pretty stellar. Adjust your driving style a bit, and you could compete with it. I can't wait to get started on the F-350 build.

09-27-2006, 05:00 PM	#5
Soya Quarry Creeper Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: illinois Posts: 433	Is the crawler motor compatible with a mamba maxx esc?

09-27-2006, 08:45 PM	#9
Mad Scientist RCC Addict Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Saginaw Posts: 1,721	Nice review. Sounds like it would make an excellent setup for the "mostly basher, sometimes crawler" types out there, such as myself

09-27-2006, 09:59 PM	#11
Highmark I wanna be Dave Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 3,866	Excellent review JRH, I felt exactly the same way when I drove it. If Novak could figure out how to get that system to drag break it would be perfect IMO. The power and control was damn near addictive Allthough I must say I've been extremely impressed with my Quark/Revolver combos in Alf, the COG difference alone is freakin amazing.

09-28-2006, 05:59 AM	#13
Soya Quarry Creeper Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: illinois Posts: 433	So my ESC won't go poof then?

09-29-2006, 03:15 PM	#15
microgoat I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 8,009	Started another round of e-mails with Charlie at Novak. He's gonna get the engineering gnomes on the case and see what they can come up with for what they're calling a hold-brake.

09-29-2006, 03:22 PM	#16
dezfan I wanna be Dave Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Happiness is a warm AK. Posts: 12,563	With the input from the crawling community, the Novak system can only get better! Keep after them Stu!

09-29-2006, 03:23 PM	#17
microgoat I wanna be Dave Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 8,009	woof.

10-03-2006, 09:28 PM	#19
Tynman81 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Scotts Valley Posts: 29	hey microgoat, i'm holding off on buying anything motor or esc wise till i hear some good news from you on your progress with Novak. I was looking into this setup already, and thank you much jrh for the great review on it. if Novak gets some kind of fix for that db issue tell them they've got another customer. probably more than just me too, as hearing jrh this excited about it means something to me. a kick a** setup from a company like Novak would certainly alleviate some of the stocking issues i'm finding with other comparable systems at the moment. if they'll work faster with more outside feedback, let us know so we can team up on 'em. Thanks guys.

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10-04-2006, 07:30 AM	#20
racerx I wanna be Dave Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: R.I.P. Chip Posts: 2,024	I picked one of these up the other day for my BB- scale build, have not finished it so I can't tell if I like it or not yet. If I was going off of looks alone I love this motor! No boring steel can, just cool machined aluminum, the other thing is all the dang wires! This thing has like 15 to 20 feet of wires coming out of it, no biggie though just harder to route. I can't wait to try her out.

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