how hard is it going to be getting a brushed motor to spank a brushless

[realsickclown]

I am being surrounded by people running brushless motors and I am wanting to stay brushed. Is it possible to get a brushed motor that will beat a brushless motor in every aspect of performance and reliability? Yet still be cheaper than a brushless motor?

[Ohioskills]

depends on what its used for smooth track or pure mud and up hill

[realsickclown]

not much mud, a lot of WOT hill climbing, trail riding in rock beds and dirt. Wraith is the rig of topic with a Tekin RS esc ,Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster 13T, currently. Would a hand wound motor do the trick ?

[hpiguy]

All other things being equal (same rig, same weight, same gearing, both running a 3s 4000mah pack, etc) the brushless rig will beat the brushed rig in straight up HP / TQ based stuff every time. Now, start adding voltage to the brushed rig and that gap narrows, possibly even putting them on a level playing field eventually. There's a reason why JRH says volt up and gear down. For all out super slow crawling however, brushed is still king.

[WHITE-TRASH]

No. Either can have big top end or butter sweet crawling but not at the same time. Brushless will have bigger top end than brushed though.

[Ohioskills]

im just getting into brushless vs. brushed and what ive read is brushless is

less maintenance more speed, $$$
brushed is more torque and less speed, cheaper

ive stuck with voltage up and gear down tip

[Exocaged]

I don't see you ever beating them doing what you describe. If you want to run with them you will need to give the brushed stuff up. Either a ROC 412 3100kv or a Pro4 of some sort. You will also need to be able to run 4S with the esc so I would recommend an MMP for that.

[dentonmac]

Originally Posted by realsickclown

not much mud, a lot of WOT hill climbing, trail riding in rock beds and dirt. Wraith is the rig of topic with a Tekin RS esc ,Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster 13T, currently. Would a hand wound motor do the trick ?

Don't think so, not the difference you are wanting to make.

Those areas (except for mud) are where a brushless excels. You already have the RS. Find a good used 13.5 Tekin for much less than the price of a quality handwound.

My apologies if we are pushing brushless too hard. Don't get me wrong I love my TorqueMaster Pro 35s, but for your intended application (as well as your desire keep cost reasonable), it just makes sense.

Originally Posted by Ohioskills

im just getting into brushless vs. brushed and what ive read is brushless is

less maintenance more speed, $$$
brushed is more torque and less speed, cheaper

ive stuck with voltage up and gear down tip

Not necessarily

Brushless: Less maintenance, top speed, adjustability, more torque
Brushed: better lower end resolution, high quality escs are cheaper

Motor costs are getting pretty close. High end handwounds are getting pricey.

[6sharky9]

Real simple...Brushed is better for low speed control and finess and always has been and always will be till brushless gets better.

Brushless makes more power overall and is more efficient and less maintenance as stated..But its a lot more money up front and more costly to replace when something does go wrong.

Non sensored brushless set ups are garbage for climbing but can run in water..( at least ive heard a rumor of that.),,no comparison torque wise to a brushed at low rpm for crawling.

Sensored comes the closest to a brushed motor down low but; Sorry still not better than a brushed motor for slow controlled climbing/control and from what I hear is not waterproof at all.

You cant say equal gearing because a brushless takes more gearing to equal the torque of a brushed motor on the low side.

If you want some speed with good torque then use a 27T motor...is it faster than a 13.5 brushless equivalent?..No its not on the top speed but that's about it.

So there it is...some real world info on brushed vs brushless.


You want the best speed you can get then go brushless and take the bad that come with it down low.

If you want decent speed but the torque and control then brushed is the way to go..always has been and will be till brushless systems improve low end start up and control.

[johnnyh66]

The old HH 14t Puller on 6s is the only brushed motor that will keep up with a sensored brushless motor (Pro4).

[johnnyh66]

here's a post I made earlier in another thread.
I'll have to relink the video... I'm on my cell phone.

I ran HH 14t Pullers on 6s (best brushed motors ever made in my opinion) in both my C2 and C3 comp rigs.
They are amazing motors with great start up, good speed and insane torque!
I felt they were the best all around motor.

But then, Tekin released the Pro4's.
The Pro4's are better in all aspects hands down.
Better low end, way more top end and awesome torque.
I run them in both my rigs now.

Here is my 14t Puller on 6s (bug) vs a Tekin Pro4 on 3s.
The 14t was the only motor that day that could match the Pro4 3300.
Up until this pull, the Pro4 didn't even need to apply throttle against most of the rigs, the drag brake was strong enough.
Keep in mind, the Sami weighs more than the Bug.

Holmes 14t Puller vs Tekin Pro4 - YouTube

[johnnyh66]

video: Holmes 14t Puller vs Tekin Pro4 - YouTube

We've run many TTC's and my 14t Pullers always won in the power events... until the Pro4's came out.

[doublej]

Question is what about the new pullers.... Where is Mr Holmes???

[johnnyh66]

I don't know but I'd like to!

[6sharky9]

ummmm..I see one truck has better suspension set up and got more traction..thats about it..lol...when the bug did get traction it moved forward stretching the rope or whatever was used to tie the 2 rigs...then "SNAP"....but this shows nothing of low speed control at all ..this was in a higher rpm situation where brushless did not clearly pull the other around like a toy..I call this a failed test of comparison.

[hpiguy]

If it helps any at all, I started out with a HH 35T torquemaster pro and BR-XL in my Wraith. It's a fantastic combo, and I can't take anything away from it. But, I'm a self professed HP junkie, I like things to be stupidly overpowered, as it's the one hobby I can afford to do so. I recently put in an MMP / pro4 3300kv, and it never ceases to put a smile on my face. It runs cooler, has more balls everywhere in the RPM range (at least when both are running the same packs), and I get roughly the same run times or maybe a bit more. So it's a win win for me. BUT, it will not compete with the HH combo for all out crawling. It does very well, and it's close, but there is enough of a difference to notice immediately. Since I have a true crawler, the HH combo went in that, and it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make on the Wraith, as it gets bashed more than crawled and more HP with less maintenance won out in the end.

[winnerone23]

I picked up a used HH motor when I started off with a wraith.. was told it was one thing, then had it rebuilt. It was a HH 17t torque master pro(3 slot)
It even had JRH thinking it was a crawlmaster when I told him I was running it in a wraith with torque to crawl and killer top end, on 4s..
It did a Great job at both an stuck with brushless. Made this Saaweeet humming noise during full throttle assaults, it was Sick! Right up until I blew the end bell off of it... :eek: (that's how I found out it was a 3 slot)

I remembered one part of the formula.. Volt up! forgot to gear down.. :/

It was the only motor that even stuck with my 13.5t redline

[johnnyh66]

Originally Posted by 6sharky9

ummmm..

obviously that was a top end test proving that one brushed motor can hang with a Pro4.
I have lots of other videos showing the low end.
Feel free to look them if you want to see examples of what your asking for.

[realsickclown]

ok I'll look in to a HH puller motor. I am really looking for the response that day on the trails when they say, HOLY HELL that's a brushed motor!

[johnnyh66]

they are getting hard to find but if you place a wanted ad you'll get one.
They seriously are the only brushed motor that I've ever seen that had that That Holy Hell that's a brushed motor factor.