Hobbywing Xerun AXE

[JohnRobHolmes]

I had to chance to watch the newer hobbywing vid showing better low speed startup than I was getting, but it doesn’t show top speed or list what kv and voltage is being shown! With the way the system works, a lower voltage or lower kv should get better startup at the sacrifice of wheelspeed. My system was outputting about 0.14v at minimum on 3s. Compare to the castle escs at 0.01v.

I’ll try to make a vid with a 1000kv revolver on 2s and show the absolutely ridiculous slow speed it can give. A fair comparison would be against a 1200kv axe. I’ll have to buy 2s, lol

[Stargate360]

I'm just wondering here why JRH made an acceleration test. What's the purpose of it? Should this discourage people to get this combo? It's a crawler not a dragster. I do respect JRH for is dedication to the hobby but this time, I think his opinion is to subjective.

[soze]

Originally Posted by Stargate360

I'm just wondering here why JRH made an acceleration test. What's the purpose of it? Should this discourage people to get this combo? It's a crawler not a dragster. I do respect JRH for is dedication to the hobby but this time, I think his opinion is to subjective.

It was to show wheel-speed. While you do mostly go slow... sometimes you need to blip the throttle to hop over a ledge.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Many of my customers, including myself, complete with our rigs. I noticed slow acceleration in first gear when trying to correct driving mistakes, and the easiest method to show this was 2nd gear on pavement.


Whether or not a person will use the acceleration (or lack of) depends on their driving. The claims made of improvements by FOC include commutation accuracy, and acceleration is an important metric. At the least, the information is available for consumers to see.

[mikemcE]

Originally Posted by Stargate360

I'm just wondering here why JRH made an acceleration test. What's the purpose of it? Should this discourage people to get this combo? It's a crawler not a dragster. I do respect JRH for is dedication to the hobby but this time, I think his opinion is to subjective.

Well, if I remember the original issue was lack of wheelspeed, and JRH worrying about breaking parts. He then did the video showing all the issues, and stated the lack of wheelspeed might be tested, so he did an acceleration video.
All the moaners here have yet to SHOW us your video and tests.
As a businessman JRH is assessing any competition for his products. Seems to be a detailed businesslike approach to me.


Hang up and Drive

[JohnRobHolmes]

This is also the first time that I’ve been accused of being too thorough in my testing, lol! I did attempt to make all tests based on hard numbers/ physical performance that were easy to visually interpret. All of my conclusions were based on these metrics. The only opinion is my dislike for the lack of torque modulation, but that is still based on a hard fact of the lack of torque modulation.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Originally Posted by mikemcE

Well, if I remember the original issue was lack of wheelspeed, and JRH worrying about breaking parts. He then did the video showing all the issues, and stated the lack of wheelspeed might be tested, so he did an acceleration video.
All the moaners here have yet to SHOW us your video and tests.
As a businessman JRH is assessing any competition for his products. Seems to be a detailed businesslike approach to me.


Hang up and Drive

I’m actually assessing whether I need to push hobbywing harder to set up my vendor account. I have a hobby shop too, they aren’t simply competition but possibly a vendor I would like to carry. Filtering out junk keeps me from wasting customer time and money. (I’m not saying this is junk, but it’s not yet good enough to carry in my store)

I’m only a manufacturer because it seems that I fill needs and design products that nobody else can. Prime example, two pole crawler motors. I thought they simply sucked. Turns out, it was just all the other companies poorly designing two pole crawler motors. Mine works great, but it took a year of design and testing. Sealed can motors, same story. Machine wound rebuildables, same story for years.

[durok]

Since HobbyWing does not make any brushed motors, yet do make speed controllers for brushed motors, it would be a great idea to at the very least be able to carry the QuicRun 1080 ESC.

With the sealed can Trailmaster Sport series motors, it's the perfect pairing for budget enthusiasts.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Agreed. I have one on the bench to test the resolution and low end accuracy.

[Topher Builds]

Originally Posted by durok

Since HobbyWing does not make any brushed motors, yet do make speed controllers for brushed motors, it would be a great idea to at the very least be able to carry the QuicRun 1080 ESC.

With the sealed can Trailmaster Sport series motors, it's the perfect pairing for budget enthusiasts.

This is exactly what I have in my ‘guest’ TRX4, finding a better combo for $60 would be a very tall task.

[zj2001]

HWNA (Hobbywing North America) just released a new video explains the basic concepts of FOC, and shows how to check the sine waveform in the FOC system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2DV...ature=youtu.be

[Jboucher]

/popcorn
This is gonna be good...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[zj2001]

When I saw the waveform pictures at #227 and #228 (on page 12), I knew exactly what the waves are.

Could the tester double check these waveform pictures carefully? Are you sure they are almost same as the square wave from a normal 6-step BLDC system?

I know I'd better not say too much, but to a senior EE, the AXE combo is NOT a fake FOC system.

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by zj2001

When I saw the waveform pictures at #227 and #228 (on page 12), I knew exactly what the waves are.

Could the tester double check these waveform pictures carefully? Are you sure they are almost same as the square wave from a normal 6-step BLDC system?

I know I'd better not say too much, but to a senior EE, the AXE combo is NOT a fake FOC system.

^ Hobbywing translator/PR

[zj2001]

Originally Posted by Rekreant

^ Hobbywing translator/PR

I only talk about technology but nothing else.

[Jboucher]

Originally Posted by zj2001

HWNA (Hobbywing North America) just released a new video explains the basic concepts of FOC, and shows how to check the sine waveform in the FOC system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2DV...ature=youtu.be

This is a completly pathetic atempt at PR damage control.
Charlie please take your check, cash it and let this one slide.
You are not fooling anyone here.

We all agree the system is new and will most likely get better with time but the data dosen't lie, the current Release firmware / software and possibly hardware is not aligned with the price point targeted.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[durok]

Let's all take a step back...

FOC may actually be implemented here, but how it feels and drives is the key.

FOC may or may not be desirable by the end user, as they say, "The proof is in the pudding".

Until more end user comparison tests come in, we only have the tests that we have seen.

The driveability, or "feel" of the AXE system may be preferred by some, and not others.

Keep in mind that there are countless Castle, Holmes, Tekin and other brand brushless systems in use - but only a handful of HobbyWing test systems.

Keep watching and reading the results as they come in, or spend your own hard-earned money on one and find out which you like better yourself.

It may be favored by some, and it may be best used in certain situations or in certain vehicle types, let's just let the chips fall where they may.

[zj2001]

Originally Posted by durok

Let's all take a step back...

FOC may actually be implemented here, but how it feels and drives is the key.

FOC may or may not be desirable by the end user, as they say, "The proof is in the pudding".

Until more end user comparison tests come in, we only have the tests that we have seen.

The driveability, or "feel" of the AXE system may be preferred by some, and not others.

Keep in mind that there are countless Castle, Holmes, Tekin and other brand brushless systems in use - but only a handful of HobbyWing test systems.

Keep watching and reading the results as they come in, or spend your own hard-earned money on one and find out which you like better yourself.

It may be favored by some, and it may be best used in certain situations or in certain vehicle types, let's just let the chips fall where they may.

Completely agree with you!

[Chiphead]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

A radio expo doesn't add extra points to the low speed throttle, it merely stretches out the signal with less information at the first part of the trigger pull. Less twitchy response at low RPM, but not more sensitive. However, adding expo to the ESC throttle curve actually puts more points of control at lower motor RPMs at the expense of upper RPM sensitivity. A typical radio outputs 10 bit resolution, 1024 points of throttle between forward and reverse, 512 points for forward. A normally mapped throttle with an 11v battery is about 0.02v per step. If we put an ESC expo like mine is, the first half of the throttle is remapped to being less than 0.01v per step while the near full throttle gets about 0.04v per step.

Am I the only one that learned something from this little nugget of information? For years I have used the expo and end points on my Futaba 4PLS to "tune" the low speed throttle. Last night I set my expo and end points back to default on the radio and then logged into the Mamba Max Pro and changed the throttle curves. Basically copied the curves I had on my radio to the ESC throttle curves. Then I went out and tested. With the Puller Pro Stubby in my SCX10II I enjoyed awesome low speed control. Like watching a tire lug, one after another very slowly, try and grab a rock ledge.

JohnRobert, info like that should be made more readily available so we can get that extra performance from your motors.

[Rekreant]

The problems stems from the fact that many of us do a ton of research before dropping this much cash one one aspect of our rigs. 200+$ for a motor system is a huge chunk of a rigs cost, and thus most people dont want to drop that kind of cash without knowing how it will perform. It would be nice if we could trust marketing, but we all know that not to be the best option. I think its smarter to start from a position of disbelief and see if anyone can prove us wrong. So far its only been John to review it honestly, while a bunch of HW sponsored affiliates just rave about the system. Ironically if you watch their videos they dont perform anything in line with the videos HW released themselves.