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Old 05-21-2018, 04:59 AM   #61
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Default Re: Hobbywing Xerun AXE

The weak BEC dosent bother me that much but the system is aimed at pure and slow crawlers.

The max it can handle is 2300kv on 3s and 60A which is not enough for rock racing.

Looks awesome for a little 1.9 crawler with maximum scale looks and feel.
Hardbody, real metal cage, max scale wheels, droopy suspension, small tires and tons of knight customs parts!


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Old 05-21-2018, 05:01 AM   #62
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it's not for U4 and rock bouncers for sure.
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Old 05-21-2018, 05:51 AM   #63
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The staggered pole is an interesting choice. True FOC can start up any motor smoothly, so detent force reduction is not needed AT ALL. Furthermore, designing a 12 slot 4 pole with low detent force is laughably easy. All they did was hurt efficiency and limit rotor speed! Really seems like they are just throwing everything at this product for marketing and not for real world reasons.

The encoder is a good choice, but then they show 6 step feedback At least they dropped sine wave from the marketing, they are probably lurking around and reading here.
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Old 05-21-2018, 06:52 AM   #64
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The staggered pole is an interesting choice. True FOC can start up any motor smoothly, so detent force reduction is not needed AT ALL. Furthermore, designing a 12 slot 4 pole with low detent force is laughably easy. All they did was hurt efficiency and limit rotor speed! Really seems like they are just throwing everything at this product for marketing and not for real world reasons.

The encoder is a good choice, but then they show 6 step feedback At least they dropped sine wave from the marketing, they are probably lurking around and reading here.
You should design it with them and get a cut!



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Old 05-21-2018, 07:04 AM   #65
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Default Re: Hobbywing Xerun AXE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ1x58lQPME

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSNW_TrDXOU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkAgQkhR5qw

Wow.. it serenity looks good by the vids, we will have to see.

Last edited by Tim3; 05-21-2018 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:21 AM   #66
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As much as I looooove a silent system, audio feedback is incredibly useful when you are trying to avoid mistakes in a comp or simply drive your best. There is nothing else that gives the same instant understanding of how hard the rig is working.
Agreed! I listen for the motor "strain" all the time when I'm trying to move slowly and precisely.

Interesting! I might have to buy one to try it out.
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:24 AM   #67
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You should design it with them and get a cut!



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If I do any design, the only one getting a cut is me, my employees, and the businesses that support us I've already been burned by other companies using my input for their own gain, to my detriment. A lot of it has been gleaned straight off this forum.
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:57 AM   #68
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Having been around here for quite a while and having heard some of the way Castle has treated you over the years, it made me lose some respect for them. I'll be one of the first in line when it comes time for a 100% Holmes ESC.

Second that. Seeing JRH geek out a little while analyzing this new "fancy" stuff, Appreciate his love for the hobby we love.


Also, 3s max is lame especially with those kv choices.
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:15 AM   #69
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3S is fine for me and I think most of us.

I'm not sure which of the motors I'd choose for my 1.9 scaler - 1200KV, 1800KV, or 2300KV. I'd probably go for the middle and take the 1800kv. Should be fine for an Ascender/SCX10. Thoughts?
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:25 AM   #70
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2300kv all the way. Maybe the 1800kv if it was a tf2/etc. 1200kv is mostly useless for scalers on 3s...
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:28 AM   #71
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2300kv all the way. Maybe the 1800kv if it was a tf2/etc. 1200kv is mostly useless for scalers on 3s...
I typically use 35T brushed motors on my scalers on 2S. I feel that I would have to gear down with the 2300kv, but you might be right since I think my very first scaler, the OG SCX10, started with a HobbyKing 17.5T (~2,200kv) motor.

HobbyWing knows what they are doing. I expect good things from this combo.
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:36 AM   #72
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Don't put too much blame on Castle, they have their own problems to deal with too. It has never been more of a handshake agreement between us. So, while it might be unfortunate that our working relationship has changed, if they prefer to get into the crawling market without my input they will simply have a higher cost of product development. Products that might simply miss the mark or be superfluous. They can figure it out, but it would probably help a lot if one of their designers was a fanatic of crawling. I would prefer to be on the same side instead of having a three way pissing match against Hobbywing, but I'm not the one with multiple factory locations in jeopardy either.

Like Hobbywing throwing everything possible at this release, even if most of it won't be detectable to a driver. For having a staggered pole and FOC startup, it sure doesn't look any smoother starting than my friggin two pole with a properly tuned ESC... But maybe that is just a bad driver in the vids.


On the flip side, Tekin's crawling products hit the mark, and I won't ever grumble about differences in execution. The reason is that they actually crawl and are on the trail, Ty loves crawlers. They developed the Roc with a specific goal in mind, even if it isn't exactly how I would develop a motor. It is still pushed by a love for the hobby and not just seeing money on the table and having an idle factory- that gets respect.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:39 AM   #73
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Don't put too much blame on Castle, they have their own problems to deal with too. It has never been more of a handshake agreement between us. So, while it might be unfortunate that our working relationship has changed, if they prefer to get into the crawling market without my input they will simply have a higher cost of product development. Products that might simply miss the mark or be superfluous. They can figure it out, but it would probably help a lot if one of their designers was a fanatic of crawling. I would prefer to be on the same side instead of having a three way pissing match against Hobbywing, but I'm not the one with multiple factory locations in jeopardy either.

Like Hobbywing throwing everything possible at this release, even if most of it won't be detectable to a driver. For having a staggered pole and FOC startup, it sure doesn't look any smoother starting than my friggin two pole with a properly tuned ESC... But maybe that is just a bad driver in the vids.


On the flip side, Tekin's crawling products hit the mark, and I won't ever grumble about differences in execution. The reason is that they actually crawl and are on the trail, Ty loves crawlers. They developed the Roc with a specific goal in mind, even if it isn't exactly how I would develop a motor. It is still pushed by a love for the hobby and not just seeing money on the table and having an idle factory- that gets respect.
Who has a 3-way pissing match with HobbyWing? And why?

You know as well as anybody that videos can be fudged to make virtually any motor look smooth. I could adjust the punch and expo on my radio and get any motor to startup smoothly. I base my final decision on my own real world use.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:53 AM   #74
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Well, i just got my version as one of 3 testers for Europe. Didn't have a chance to solder a plug on and build it in. But the overall feel and finish is stunning. The motor feels very robust, like the Esc also does. During my visit to the German Superscale event this weekend (where i was handed over the combo), i also spoke to one of the people who drove the very first prototype. He was very, very much impressed by the smoothnes.
I also read about U4 here. Keep in mind that Hobbywing nowhere claimed it could be used for that. It was designed specifically with Crawling in mind. Most of us have a different rig for U4'ing anyway. At least i do.

Hobbywing has done their research. They have been present at several Crawling/scale events in Asia and Europe. From their US HQ also people did visit events and talked to people. The fact that they are not screaming "Hobbywing is in tha house", doesn't mean they are not present........... Just like other Asian companies who have been present at several US "Fests" and G6's to talk to drivers and see what they need (never seen anybody from Tekin, Holmes or Castle at a European event btw, but different story ).
No, i am pretty sure Hobbywing knows what they are doing. They hit the jackpot with the WP1080 and my guess is this AXE will win hearts and minds (and wallets).
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:37 AM   #75
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Default Re: Hobbywing Xerun AXE

I was handed one of these this weekend, I did drive one for a short time on a TRX4. It felt good but I was having too much fun driving my other rig to play for too long. I値l throw it in another car and see what I think after a longer test.

The sensor cable is not my favorite. I just don稚 like the fixed length and rigid section caused by the mid length plug. I get a little bitchy if a motor or ESC even comes with too stiff of a sensor cable

I got the 2300kv, which is slower than I would buy, I always look for 3000kv range. But I値l try the 2300 and boost it and see how it does.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:40 AM   #76
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Hmm, I'll probably give Hobbywing a shot when it comes out, if the price is reasonable. I smoked my Mamba X at the end of March and sent it in and still waiting for the replacement... so I'm not too worried about customer service at this point.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:53 AM   #77
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I was handed one of these this weekend, I did drive one for a short time on a TRX4. It felt good but I was having too much fun driving my other rig to play for too long. I値l throw it in another car and see what I think after a longer test.

The sensor cable is not my favorite. I just don稚 like the fixed length and rigid section caused by the mid length plug. I get a little bitchy if a motor or ESC even comes with too stiff of a sensor cable

I got the 2300kv, which is slower than I would buy, I always look for 3000kv range. But I値l try the 2300 and boost it and see how it does.
What rig are you going to put it in?
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:08 PM   #78
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What rig are you going to put it in?
I have a new Deadbolt here and my Honcho. I知 guessing my Honcho will get it.
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:23 PM   #79
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I also got some wheel time with this system, over the weekend. It felt great. IMO, the descent control is what makes this shine. You can drive it down steep hills, on the throttle, but still crawl very slow and not pick up speed. It reminds me of the 1080, when you set the freewheeling option #15 to setting #1. No more run away brushless trucks!
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:57 PM   #80
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is no force feedback and higher likelyhood of breaking parts if the wheel gets sucked into a crack.
Isn't it possible to have the code only ramp it up x% instead of just increasing more & more til maxed? It would seem like a very shoddy design if they couldn't.

Most industrial equipment is designed around steady-state speed control rather than throttle control. Granted operators are supposed to know NOT to get stuck in a hole or crevasse.

For transferring from forward/uphill to downhill it seems like a better idea since a real crawler can simply apply brakes before the transition. Motors doubling as the brake does not allow that. I was actually looking at converting a DIG module to a driveshaft drag brake.

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I got the 2300kv, which is slower than I would buy, I always look for 3000kv range.
This has always mystified me. People go to great lengths to make their rigs "scale", but then give them a scale speed of 200mph+? There are real crawlers that double up t-cases along with crazy-short diff ratios to make them twice as slow, not twice as fast. Regardless this system is designed for low-speed control rather than blistering speed.

Last edited by Hydrocarbon92; 05-21-2018 at 03:43 PM.
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