Hobbywing Xerun AXE

[JohnRobHolmes]

Originally Posted by Jboucher

No directly related to the truck and scale world but i recently saw an article about the new DJI Phantom 4 Pro 2.0 drone and they advertize : Upgraded propulsion system with FOC sinusoidal driver ESCs.

Is FOC going to be the new marketing ''cool'' word for 2018-2019 ?

Absolutely. True FOC is near perfection of motor control. Sinusoidal is just brute force approximation of a sine wave. Unless the motor has a sine wave bEMF, FOC won't have a sine wave. Also, FOC is constantly adjusting the current vector based on the motor feedback. Sine is nothing more than trap control dressed up with lipstick. It does no current vectoring, does not perform park transformations, does not monitor phase current.

Calling it "FOC sinusoidal" tells me its marketing fluff. Sine is NOT FOC and FOC is NOT sine wave. Calling it both is an oxymoron. It's probably just sine control.

A decent description of both methods https://www.motioncontroltips.com/fa...l-commutation/

[MaFoDes]

Just read this thread as i got interested. I will be getting the Combo next week with the 1800kv motor for testing. Even if i think most of the testing already is done.
I guess it will be interesting. First time i heard they told me they were working on this esc/motor is may 2017. Knowing Hobbywing a litttle, they will not take any chances and all will be ok. They listened to users well. Those frigging Chinese ain't stupid....

I run several brushless combo's. HH & Tekin. The Ble-pro and the RX4. The Ble impressed me more then the RX4. Didn't try the Mamba-X yet.
But to be honost, Hobbywing has brought a lot of fun, affordble and reliable items to the world of Rc.
Hope this AXE will be in the same category.

[MSH]

Not impressed at all, 60 Amp continuous, 3 Amp bec and it's not compatible with other motors it seems.

[Jboucher]

You got new information?

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[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by MSH

Not impressed at all, 60 Amp continuous, 3 Amp bec and it's not compatible with other motors it seems.

Where are you getting this info?

HobbyWing knows what they're doing. They make awesome products. I expect this to be the same.

It looks good in this video.

[Ninomaniac]

Don't forget that hobbywing's specs are realistic if not understated. 1080's BEC runs my Hitec 7955TG on 7.4V in a Wraith with no problems whatsoever and it's also rated at "only" 3A.

60 amps average is also plenty for most crawlers.

And I expect some kind of adapter for standard sensored motors but we'll see about that.

[MSH]

https://shop.robitronic.com/de/hobby...mbo-hw38020248

Actually it even says only AXE motors.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by MSH

https://shop.robitronic.com/de/hobby...mbo-hw38020248

Actually it even says only AXE motors.

Some of HobbyWing's ESCs have features that only work with HobbyWing motors. That's nothing new. Everything else outside of those motor-specific features worth with other motors.

[JohnRobHolmes]

If it is truly an FOC controller, it won't even work with non supported KVs of the same motor without heavy retuning that most people can't accomplish. It's on the level of blind tuning a PID with no starting point. Even the most advanced auto tuning FOC controllers need a big helping hand to ensure it is done right, as a completely automated auto tune is still prone to error and will result in very poor running system at best and a fire at worst.


Ignoring the question on if this is FOC or just 6 step approximated sine wave, the velocity loop function will not work properly on an unknown motor, as it is very important to know the motor parameters so there is not oscillation around the desired speed. More than likely, there is a resistor inside the motors that tells the ESC which model it is, and what parameters to work from.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

If it is truly an FOC controller, it won't even work with non supported KVs of the same motor without heavy retuning that most people can't accomplish. It's on the level of blind tuning a PID with no starting point. Even the most advanced auto tuning FOC controllers need a big helping hand to ensure it is done right, as a completely automated auto tune is still prone to error and will result in very poor running system at best and a fire at worst.


Ignoring the question on if this is FOC or just 6 step approximated sine wave, the velocity loop function will not work properly on an unknown motor, as it is very important to know the motor parameters so there is not oscillation around the desired speed. More than likely, there is a resistor inside the motors that tells the ESC which model it is, and what parameters to work from.

So a resistor is how the current HobbyWing ESCs recognize HobbyWing motors for their Full-Sensored Mode?

[MaFoDes]

Originally Posted by MSH

Not impressed at all, 60 Amp continuous, 3 Amp bec and it's not compatible with other motors it seems.

Hmm... Robitronic seems to be the only one having this info. I really doubt if this is true. I am getting mine upcoming weekend. Then i hope to tell more and if these numbers are actually correct.

Hobbywing has a good relationship with Asiatees. From what i heard they receive the first batch, just like with the WP1060.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

So a resistor is how the current HobbyWing ESCs recognize HobbyWing motors for their Full-Sensored Mode?

I don't know for sure, but it is a very easy and frequently used method of identifying items in many industries. It's also been used by other companies in the RC world to identify motors in place of the typical thermister on the sensor boards. Such as Novak distinguishing between "crawler" motors and non crawler motors in order to apply drag brake (or not) .

[robert@castle]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

I don't know for sure, but it is a very easy and frequently used method of identifying items in many industries. It's also been used by other companies in the RC world to identify motors in place of the typical thermister on the sensor boards. Such as Novak distinguishing between "crawler" motors and non crawler motors in order to apply drag brake (or not) .

On their 4 pole sensored motors they actually have a chip on their sensor board that talks to the ESC and id's the motor. I'm not sure what the chip is, but it's probably a microprocessor and talks serial back to the ESC over the temperature wire.
http://www.hobbywing.com/products/ca...68SDG2/004.jpg

[JohnRobHolmes]

fancy!! That would certainly give more ability to store and transmit information. Probably easier (long term) as compared to storing it all on the ESC. Just send the motor "profile" to the ESC and the settings are adjusting according to the info. That would make a true FOC implementation possible without having to preload the ESC with tables for each motor, more future proof. Also gets around manually retuning the ESC in case they released different KVs in the future.

[Jboucher]

So we're back to a possible awesome esc.

Maybe it's also the type of tech DJI introduced in their New phantom 4 v2.0
Would be even easier as there is only 1 motor type / kv to care about.

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[JohnRobHolmes]

Indeed, it's possible awesome. I'm not a fan of velocity loop control, but I'll still check it out. Probably will be better for newbie drivers so they don't have to learn throttle control. Downside as we have spoke of, is no force feedback and higher likelyhood of breaking parts if the wheel gets sucked into a crack. It will apply what is needed to continue the velocity. IMO, not good at all. Imagine having a full size crawler with a governor that ran the throttle. It would be easier to carry through a section without momentum changes, but harder to let off in time before parts break. Learning how to drive the motor becomes a little easier. But now we have to spend mental effort identifying terrain changes and guess at the load.

On the same token of force feedback, running my ESCs in quiet mode has a similar problem. With no audible feedback, it becomes harder to judge the strain on the motor. We have to fall back on watching wheelspeed changes in relation to the trigger. Not really so tough, but still tougher than having that audible squeal to let us know how hard things are working. Louder squeal, more torque. Add on a velocity loop and its another layer of difficulty.

[Jboucher]

Interesting, i didn't think about audio feedback from the esc.
I might dial back my hobbywing 1080 to 8K so i get some audio from it rather than silence.

Thx

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[JohnRobHolmes]

As much as I looooove a silent system, audio feedback is incredibly useful when you are trying to avoid mistakes in a comp or simply drive your best. There is nothing else that gives the same instant understanding of how hard the rig is working.

[Ninomaniac]

I'd just like to use this opportunity to say that the slipper clutch in my Spawn kit is very, very consistent and useful.

[MSH]

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