Hobbywing Xerun AXE

[durok]

You mean like a Turnigy GliderDrive?

It's probably just the microphone in the recording.

Until someone runs them back-to-back with the same audio equipment, we can't really compare them yet.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-...-5-1400kv.html

"Outrunner in a can"

[Frank211]

[QUOTE=durok;5835982]You mean like a Turnigy GliderDrive?

It's probably just the microphone in the recording.

Until someone runs them back-to-back with the same audio equipment, we can't really compare them yet.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-...-5-1400kv.html

"Outrunner in a can"

[/QUOTlike]


I did not know about this motor. Would like to hear that motor ! (I learn something new everyday)

[durok]

There's YouTube videos of it out there... still sounds like an outrunner!

[Frank211]

It Sure sounds like that too....
https://youtu.be/oAZBjfwe31g
The motor is in this dually

[durok]

Originally Posted by Frank211

It Sure sounds like that too....
https://youtu.be/oAZBjfwe31g
The motor is in this dually

Yep, that's my comment on the video...

[Ninomaniac]

I've been thinking (there's a first time for everything)... would it even be fun to drive this combo? I don't compete. Managing the throttle/brake is half the work (and fun) of RCing.

If I need to get A to B across nasty terrain in RL, yes, a fancy Range Rover will do it with me just pointing the steering wheel where I wanna go and it doing the hard work. But if I'm out to have some fun, a Land Rover sounds much better and more involved.

And I am not generally against stability management in cars, 1:1 or toys.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Ninomaniac

I've been thinking (there's a first time for everything)... would it even be fun to drive this combo? I don't compete. Managing the throttle/brake is half the work (and fun) of RCing.

If I need to get A to B across nasty terrain in RL, yes, a fancy Range Rover will do it with me just pointing the steering wheel where I wanna go and it doing the hard work. But if I'm out to have some fun, a Land Rover sounds much better and more involved.

And I am not generally against stability management in cars, 1:1 or toys.

I think this ESC would get you MORE involved because you can throttle downhill whereas now we often rely on drag brakes.

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Frank211

It Sure sounds like that too....
https://youtu.be/oAZBjfwe31g
The motor is in this dually

Who in their right mind used their body as an obstacle?

Personally, I love the psychedelic sounds of an outrunner motor. Could I listen to it in the woods all day, every time? I'm not sure.

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by Rekreant

Wish it was captioned, I wanna know what he’s saying lol

I feel dumb, especially since these have captions LOL

[Teng]

Available for now at USD$203 ( Package price based on 2300kv ) https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...ucket=6#detail

[JohnRobHolmes]

First impressions, the marketing has a lot more hype than the system is showing. It aint FOC drive, period. It is simple 6 step trap drive, not even approximated sinusoidal.

The staggered pole does give it a sinus bEMF, but does not properly lower the detent force as it should. It is actually no lower than a puller and possibly higher than a slate. This doesn't help it start any smoother than a Slate or Puller, first bench tests show it starts up faster. 350rpm is the minimum rpm I've been able to get, with 420rpm being more typical running the 2300kv on 12v. A 3300 Puller starts up at 250rpm on the same voltage with a BLE controller in dithered mode, and a 2200kv on a mamba X should start closer to 120rpm. The staggered pole is honestly a terrible idea from an efficiency standpoint. It is either poor engineering or simply the last option to use it. From experience, four pole and higher motors should never have to go this route, it is simply lazy or inexperienced engineering.

The typical hall effect sensor has been replaced with a magnetic encoder. This is probably where they are getting the FOC term from, as it would typically be used in an FOC system. But it isn't, so FOC is nothing more than dishonest marketing. There would be higher accuracy using a single chip like this, but it's a guess as to whether this is helping since the startup speed isn't any better.

Just sitting on the bench with the hold brake, the motor gets hot. It is forcing 50% duty cycle on all the phases at the same time, and this will burn up battery life. Active brake has uses though, but be forewarned.

It certainly uses a velocity loop. It's not completely rigid though, there is still some elasticity to the speed. I'll need to throw it into a rig for further analysis.


The rotor is 14mm long and 14.5mm diameter. This means the stator is between 12 and 14mm long, which is shorter than a Slate or Puller Stubby which has 17mm long rotor magnets. I believe the Slate is also a 14.5mm rotor. The Stubby is 17.5mm.

[gsgraber92]

JRH, can you explain a little bit about the difference between 2,4 or more poles as it relates to smoother start up vs the staggering of poles. Which seems to defeat the efficiency. I understand it also depends on esc software and circuitry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Harley]

I'll be interested to see how my battery life is effected. I knew it was a shorter can than my 540's but the stator length difference is my concern. The 1406 Slate was a little lacking for me being that I usually run a standard 540 in my 1.9's.

[Frank211]

An IG vid of the motor
https://www.instagram.com/p/BjYGErSg...d=lo4k8lfwrrjs

[JohnRobHolmes]

Maybe they will have an update to smooth out startup more. That video is not at all how the system actually works, nor is that the axe controller.

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Maybe they will have an update to smooth out startup more. That video is not at all how the system actually works, nor is that the axe controller.

Good to know. The video made it out like it was the next greatest thing, and everyone on here kept talking the company up. Thanks for being honest about it.

[Frank211]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Maybe they will have an update to smooth out startup more. That video is not at all how the system actually works, nor is that the axe controller.

Maybe they just showing how precise the motor is/can be ? Im just guessing.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Originally Posted by gsgraber92

JRH, can you explain a little bit about the difference between 2,4 or more poles as it relates to smoother start up vs the staggering of poles. Which seems to defeat the efficiency. I understand it also depends on esc software and circuitry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Every motor design is unique, but there are guidelines. Some respond better to staggering or skewing. The key element to how much efficiency is hit, is how far the slot skewing goes in relation to the “pole pitch”. Skewing is essentially misalignment of the motor where work cannot be done. In my brushed motors, I always skew 1/2 slot pitch or less to have the least efficiency hit while gaining most benefits, and I use it because there is no other choices left. Brushless gives more freedom of design and there are more stator choices, so there isn’t much reason for skewing IMO.

Higher slot rotors/stators can get away with less skewing on the steel for the same effect, with one slot pitch being maximum. 12 slot 4 pole motors have 3 slots per “pole pitch”, so a full slot pitch skew is only 1/3 pole pitch. A 3 slot 2 pole would be 1.5 slot per pole pitch, so a full slot pitch skew wouldn’t even be a full pole pitch skewing.

Since each magnet shape and lamination shape is different, detent force is not always affected as anticipated. A small amount of skew might make the motor worse, and I have indeed built 12 slot 10 pole motors where skewing was worse than none.


The hobbywing motor appears to have 1/3 pole pitch staggering, which makes the back EMF sinusoidal but didn’t seem to reduce detent. Maybe the motor was terrible beforehand though. Skewing would have reduced detent more, but magnets can be difficult to make this way. Skewing the rotor would work, but it is hard to wind and many stators have alignment nubs to prevent it during stacking.


I’m really quite puzzled as to why this was their choice. I’ve engineered plain old brushless motors with sinus bEMF for customers before. But it’s really not an issue to have a trap bEMF, in fact it makes more power dense motors and less esc losses to drive them. It’s not like existing 4 pole motors are uncontrollable, they are practically on par with brushed motors for 95% of driver. Just really seems like a solution looking for a problem. Or, marketing overstating these fantastic solutions to problems that nobody actually has.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Originally Posted by Frank211

Maybe they just showing how precise the motor is/can be ? Im just guessing.

They are essentially showing a 3 phase stepper driver. Integrating that into a system also capable of high rpms has been a wet dream of mine for a decade. It’s certaibly not a small feat! Maybe they will continue integration.

[MasteroFlego]

Having read that, why has no one put a stepper in a crawler?

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