Hobbywing Xerun AXE

[tuanies]

Originally Posted by Rekreant

If its not chinese cheap offbrand, why cant they spend money on GOOD translation services?

Because Americans can barely speak proper English, not to mention write it?

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by tuanies

Because Americans can barely speak proper English, not to mention write it?

Thats not really a thing. Maybe some, but the majority can speak it just fine lol.

[Frank211]

It's in a rig in this vid
https://youtu.be/0IMZCzZC8vs


EDIT....
Warning he gets a lil hot N heavy at the end ! Lol

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by Frank211

It's in a rig in this vid
https://youtu.be/0IMZCzZC8vs

Saw that. If you compare it side by side with the Hobbywing official video there is a world of difference in the smoothness.

[JohnRobHolmes]

I've done a few more hours of both bench testing and crawling today. Tomorrow I will do the same and record it on video.

It seems that it might be a basic implementation of closed loop (crude) FOC via lookup table and the encoder, the same implementation that encoder steppers (servo drive) uses. The sine wave approximation is very poor though, so I had dismissed it as simply trap drive earlier. They seemingly did a poor job at matching the motor bEMF. But there is activation of all three phases at the same time, and this is a mark of FOC. I'll hold off on the pitchforks and torches in regards to FOC claims, ha! But I can restate that this is not a good approximation of a sine wave, and that is an important point of efficiently FOCing a motor with sine bEMF. This also hammers in that there is little chance that other motors are compatible. So this is by no means a universal ESC, but a system where you will only have a few choices of motor.

On the rocks, it drove as anticipated. It was relatively consistent in speed during load changes, but still had some "loading" evident during big changes. Not a marked difference to how a mamba X drives and downhills though. The torque application was quite unruly, however. I got sucked into a crack at just a hair of throttle and flipped the rig with little warning. The minimum startup speed when loaded seemed the same as unloaded startup speed, although it seemed smooth enough for the average driver. This is a difference to the Mamba X or BLE, where getting up to an object lets the motor load down and butter through at a lower startup RPM than the simply unloaded RPM. I'll have more time to test this tomorrow and will report back. I think the system may have fans of how it drives, but I've come to love and expect "normal" PWM throttle response. It's literally engrained into my throttle finger and brain, so learning this as precise as I've learned to control PWM throttle would take a lot of time watching the tire shape. The tire noise and deflection seemed to be my only feedback to load.


Lots of head scratching and Hmmmmms today.

[2mtech]

Originally Posted by Charlie

Hi Everyone!

I've been away from the forums for far to long...... but, if anyone has Hobbywing Q's, you can hit me up directly, Charlie@hobbywing.com, or through the contacts on HobbywingDirect.com just put "Charlie" in the subject line and it'll get directly to me! ;)

I've driven this system for several months now, in many different conditions and loads. Now, clearly I'm super biased, that's not something I ever try to hide or mask, but, this system is amazing. Doesn't get super hot at all, does the "Lug by Lug" crawling, and has super fine ultra smooth response. All developed by Hobbywing in house.

You can discuss or poke at the tech till you turn blue in the face, but the simple fact is, this thing drives amazing. When handed off to folks, they often did not know it was brushless, and asked me "What turn is this setup". When I explained, they needed to pull the body off for proof..... LOL.

Point being if you guys have Q's about this for us, please send them my way, and I'll run it up the chain and get some official clarifications.

This system is a full closed loop system, and the RPM of the motor is directly tied to throttle position. A normal setup basically outputs a motor signal, the motor response, and we adjust throttle input to match loads on the motor. The new system, will stay at what ever RPM you put it at, regardless of the loads on it. Uphill, or down hill. The down hill driving is amazing.

So, I have a few vids of this system up now, and am currently working on a new run through of how "slow" this motor can go.

Brought it out to Proline By the Fire, let folks wheel my own truck, and borrow a system, the responses extremely positive. Long time "Brushed only" drivers, were extremely impressed.

Ya'll know me, I'm no expert super engineering guy, but I love RC, and I do it all the time. Feel free to email me anytime. I won't be able to stay on top of the Forum stuff, but I'm at my desk often and can always answer an email! ;)

We've got samples out to testers now, and flood gates of "Real" information will start to flow soon!

Thank you!
Charlie@hobbywing.com (Formerly Charlie the Novak guy..... LOL. )


PS: you can check out my Youtube Channel for Hobbywing, "Hobbywing Official", and Check out "The Charlie Show" playlist. I think forums don't like links, so to avoid any post distress... lol, gonna leave the direct links out. It comes up right away with those search terms.

If you hadn't noticed back at post #179 you already made an appearance in this thread.

[JohnRobHolmes]

O scope output. Notice the sharp transitions from low duty to high duty on each phase. Or not, maybe you don’t look at these things as much as I do, lol!

[JohnRobHolmes]

A little more zoomed in. Each phase rides at peak duty a looooong time per commutation cycle. There is a little slope to the area under the curve, but still not nearly sine approximation.

[Frank211]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

O scope output. Notice the sharp transitions from low duty to high duty on each phase. Or not, maybe you don’t look at these things as much as I do, lol!

The colors MAN ! (70s reference) lol

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

A little more zoomed in. Each phase rides at peak duty a looooong time per commutation cycle. There is a little slope to the area under the curve, but still not nearly sine approximation.

I see what you mean, thats not sine at all. If you hadnt told me Id say it was just a normal 3 phase digital motor.

[JohnRobHolmes]

My calculations show it is a trap waveform with 1/3 of the time rising and falling. 1/6 rising duty, 1/6 falling duty

[Jboucher]

This thread might as well be written in Klingon by now, i feel lost among supreme beings...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[JohnRobHolmes]

Don’t worry, I’ll speak more touchy feely stuff tomorrow. I just like balancing opinions of feel with some hard measurement and theory.

[whitrzac]

wrong thread

[JatoTheRipper]

Originally Posted by Rekreant

Saw that. If you compare it side by side with the Hobbywing official video there is a world of difference in the smoothness.

It looks as smooth as any other brushless system I've driven.

[Teng]

Originally Posted by Frank211

It's in a rig in this vid
https://youtu.be/0IMZCzZC8vs


EDIT....
Warning he gets a lil hot N heavy at the end ! Lol

Any chances to know what gearings are in this testing? ( Spur and pinion )

[durok]

That's why actual side-by-side comparison reports are going to be so important - it's all fine and dandy if it crawls at a snail's pace with a certain amount of control...

But how is it throughout the entire rpm range?

Is there a reason that it's being advertised so much paired with relatively low-kv motors, when it won't take more than 3S?

Some listings do now show a 3300kv, but I am very interested in more hands-on driving information when there's no rep handing someone the controls of a "mystery" rig.

Knowing how it's geared and then how well it runs at a slow crawl, then handles bursts of power to get out of a stuck situation, and finally some throttle-pegged results.

(rubs hands together in anticipation...)

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper

It looks as smooth as any other brushless system I've driven.

They arent claiming that its the same as everything else, they are CLEARLY saying that its the best thing on the market, never before seen! Watch / read all the promotional stuff. I get that you accept lying in marketing as inescapable but in most peoples eyes that is not a valid excuse. If they were saying they were just as good as the competition no one would be complaining. They are claiming to have created the best thing since sliced bread.

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by durok

That's why actual side-by-side comparison reports are going to be so important - it's all fine and dandy if it crawls at a snail's pace with a certain amount of control...

But how is it throughout the entire rpm range?

Is there a reason that it's being advertised so much paired with relatively low-kv motors, when it won't take more than 3S?

Some listings do now show a 3300kv, but I am very interested in more hands-on driving information when there's no rep handing someone the controls of a "mystery" rig.

Knowing how it's geared and then how well it runs at a slow crawl, then handles bursts of power to get out of a stuck situation, and finally some throttle-pegged results.

(rubs hands together in anticipation...)

Its annoying that their entire premise for how its great is based off of anecdotal evidence that cannot be verified in any fashion. Its the whole GMO thing all over again lol.

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by Jboucher

This thread might as well be written in Klingon by now, i feel lost among supreme beings...

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Meh, I bet if you started talking to me about your industry I would feel just as lost. So far John hasnt even talked about too super advanced electronics concepts, and thats from a man who quite literally makes his living making and selling motors, servos, and controllers.