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Old 07-07-2018, 10:36 AM   #1
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Default 30t vs 45t?

I sold my crawlers 2 years ago. I regret it and now I'm rebuilding my herd.
My old Wraith had a Holmes 45t (I think torquemaster). It was a crawl machine! It'd go up and over anything. I had it geared almost as low as possible. Top speed was slower than I would walk.
I'd like to get back to where i was. I have an opportunity for a good deal on a Torquemaster 30t. How much difference between a 30 and 45? Assuming I gear it way down. Can I get similar torque?
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Old 07-07-2018, 03:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

I'm not an expert on motors, but my understanding is the 30t would have a little more torque than the 45t if geared the same. It would also have a noticeably faster top speed.
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

As I know it: more turns = more torque, slower speed.
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

More turns equals more torque. Lower turns equals more speed.

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Old 07-07-2018, 06:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

I just think, Heavy rig need more torque than lighten one?
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Old 07-07-2018, 06:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

Just installed the Tekin 40T on my wife's 8lb 12.3. Jeep. More of a crawler rig than anything. Had the 27T too much speed for her liking. So far it's been working GREAT!!! Good wheel speed when needed, low-end grunt to muscle it through the thick stuff.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

From what I've seen on here, 27t is the sweet spot for torque, at least on 3s and 2s. Higher voltage would benefit from a higher turn motor, but at 12v or less, you'll get more torque from the 30 then the 45.

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Old 07-07-2018, 11:55 PM   #8
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

Holmes himself has repeatedly said that higher turns does NOT equal more torque. Can size is the biggest factor of torque size. What turns effects is revolution, aka wheel speed.
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Old 07-08-2018, 12:44 AM   #9
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

If 2 duplicate rigs are geared the the same. The one with the higher turn motor will have more torque and lower speed

If 2 duplicate vehicles are geared to have a top speed of 10mph the one with the lower turn motor will have more torque and a higher final output ratio (lower gears).

So when people say higher turn motors have more torque they are correct.
And when people say lower turn motors have more torque, they are also correct.
But without more information these statements are less then useful.

When asking about what motor other people run. The information is not especially useful unless you know their voltage, final output ratio, tire size, vehicle weight, slow crawl expectations and top speed. Having only the same motor as some one else can yield vastly different results.

Saying something is fast is much less informative than saying 15mph.

The numbers aren't listed for the 30t torque master, but it will be roughly 50% faster. If your 45t was already geared down all the way, then the 30t will have less torque with the same gearing. How much less torque, possibly enough to be anoying, maybee not.

Last edited by Voodoobrew; 07-08-2018 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 07-08-2018, 05:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoobrew View Post
If 2 duplicate rigs are geared the the same. The one with the higher turn motor will have more torque and lower speed

If 2 duplicate vehicles are geared to have a top speed of 10mph the one with the lower turn motor will have more torque and a higher final output ratio (lower gears).

So when people say higher turn motors have more torque they are correct.
And when people say lower turn motors have more torque, they are also correct.
But without more information these statements are less then useful.

When asking about what motor other people run. The information is not especially useful unless you know their voltage, final output ratio, tire size, vehicle weight, slow crawl expectations and top speed. Having only the same motor as some one else can yield vastly different results.

Saying something is fast is much less informative than saying 15mph.

The numbers aren't listed for the 30t torque master, but it will be roughly 50% faster. If your 45t was already geared down all the way, then the 30t will have less torque with the same gearing. How much less torque, possibly enough to be anoying, maybee not.
As mentioned above, this is only correct to a certain degree.

Once you start to go above 35t in most instances you will actually start to lose torque, unless you up the voltage.
For 2 / 3s lipo then 27t / 35t is your optimum turns for torque on most 540 motors.

John Holmes from Holmes Hobbies who's been designing and building motors for as long as i can remember has said this several times and with conducting my own testing, i've found the same.

I have several motors made by the same company ranging from 21t, all the way to 80t
on 2s and 3s the 65t and 80t motors stall far easier than 35t motor on the same gearing (90/12 on an SCX10 with 48p gearing with underdrive in the rear so geared as low as you can more or less)
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Old 07-08-2018, 06:52 PM   #11
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

Well that's annoying, it makes nobody correct :P
I think JRH has recently been saying the sweet spot is 21-27t lately, but this probably varies per motor production line. I don't know how this is changed by slot count either.

I do have an 80t rc4wd motor and it was gutless. I figured it was just a bad motor.

The higher turn motors draw less amps from the esc due to lower resistance? So they end up with a wattage limitation there. I am not sure what the reason at the other end, if it is a limit to the amount of watts that can cross the commutator which limits the torque. I don't think thats it if were talking low speed torque though.

Bottom line, this is an expensive hobby and it will take some trial and error on the end user.
It would be nice if there was some sort of interactive chart though.
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

Ill stick with what Holmes says, since he makes his living off of making amazing quality brushed motors. No disrespect, but he has consistently said that turns does not translate to torque.
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:06 PM   #13
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoobrew View Post
It would be nice if there was some sort of interactive chart though.
Check out holmeshobbies.com's motor recommendation guide.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:55 AM   #14
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekreant View Post
Check out holmeshobbies.com's motor recommendation guide.
That's just a speed chart.
I've used it quire a bit.
It has nothing regarding torque.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:49 AM   #15
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

Thanks for all the info here. I went ahead and bought the 30t motor. Hope to have it this week

It's going in a Wraith on 2s with an FXR. I also plan to weight the hell out of my wheels with gearing at close to max low
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bansh88 View Post
Thanks for all the info here. I went ahead and bought the 30t motor. Hope to have it this week

It's going in a Wraith on 2s with an FXR. I also plan to weight the hell out of my wheels with gearing at close to max low
If you weight the hell out of your wheels that motor is probably going to struggle. Watch the heat for sure. If you don't have an infrared temp gun now is the time to invest in one. You can get them from HobbyKing, eBay or Harbor Freight.

Also, weighting the wheels is kind of an "old school" technique. These days we have moved onto Beef Tubes (I highly recommend them for the AR60 axles), knuckle weights, etc. Wheel weights will still work fine, but it will kill wheel speed and put more strain on the motor and axle shafts.

BTW - is your nickname from the Yamaha Banshee?
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

Yessir, I have 2 Banshees.

Heavy wheels were by far the best mod or upgrade I ever did to my Wraith. And like I said, it was slow. Very slow. I never had to (nor could I) spin tires to get up and over rocks. The weight combined with soft tires and softer foams made it a beast. I'm hoping to recreate it as best I can with this new rig.

Id like to get beef tubes and I think I saw Steel c-hubs somewhere the other day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper View Post
If you weight the hell out of your wheels that motor is probably going to struggle. Watch the heat for sure. If you don't have an infrared temp gun now is the time to invest in one. You can get them from HobbyKing, eBay or Harbor Freight.

Also, weighting the wheels is kind of an "old school" technique. These days we have moved onto Beef Tubes (I highly recommend them for the AR60 axles), knuckle weights, etc. Wheel weights will still work fine, but it will kill wheel speed and put more strain on the motor and axle shafts.

BTW - is your nickname from the Yamaha Banshee?
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JatoTheRipper View Post

Also, weighting the wheels is kind of an "old school" technique. These days we have moved onto Beef Tubes (I highly recommend them for the AR60 axles), knuckle weights, etc.
Almost pulled the trigger on some used beef tubes.... 1.5oz?! Seriously? I'm looking at 6oz min on each wheel from wheel weights. 1.5oz is nothing. And $20-60 for both axles to gain less than 3oz?
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:23 PM   #19
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

The more wheel weight you run the quicker you will wreck your bearings in the axle, I run knuckle weight. I haven't wrecked a bearing in a several years since I swapped to knuckle weight and cut my wheel weight in half. Also, after the swap I noticed the rig is much more stable. Dlux makes knuckles or rcbros makes a weight hanger.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:11 AM   #20
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Default Re: 30t vs 45t?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bansh88 View Post
Almost pulled the trigger on some used beef tubes.... 1.5oz?! Seriously? I'm looking at 6oz min on each wheel from wheel weights. 1.5oz is nothing. And $20-60 for both axles to gain less than 3oz?
Any non rotating weight is a good thing. Wheel weights will work just fine, but they have drawbacks. Loss of wheel speed and wear on other parts like bearings, as mentioned above, are the big ones.
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