Crawlmaster Pro 550 10T or Puller Pro 2200kv

[KV242]

Ready to pull the trigger on a new motor for a 10+ lbs TRX-4 running Mamba X, 3s, 9t pinion, used for equal amounts of trail running and big hill and rock climbs.

I've long been set on the Crawlmaster Pro 550 for it's low startup speed and low rpm control, but I see more and more people opting for a brushless setup in their crawlers. Other than battery life and maintenance factors , why should I get the Puller Pro over the Crawlmaster Pro? (Not into the Revolver for the noise.)

[Voodoobrew]

I was pretty die hard brushed fan untill the mamba x firmware 2.02, the only, and I really feel this only strongly is the initial start speed. This initial brushed start speed generally dosn't have enough power for real world applications, and will just bog sown in the rough.

Brushless motors now have excelent initiall startup speeds and not as good, are still very good, Im picky about this and the brushless pro's outweigh this con.
Brushles can reach a higher rpm which will allow you to gear down ( and believe me or not you can still gear down more ) and keep your same speeds.
You can use this increased rpm range to your advantage and get back the low speed of your brushed motor but now with more torque or to have a taller top end.

Before the mamba x 2.02 update, I would have said brushed for the better downhill control.

my brushed setups are $20 trailmaster 21t paired to a $40 HW 1080.
Brushless is much more expensive, like $200 and in my opinion that is the the deciding factor. How much are you wanting to pay for a performance gain. The performance gain is not something I would ever say is twice as good.
I have both a crawlmaster 550 10t and a puller pro 2200kv the puller pro makes slightly more everything noise, power, speed, torque... I say slightly but it is also noticibly better with the naked eye or whatever also. Not that slightly better that you can't see.

But that over $140 dollars you can use somewhere else. Its not something you can realy grasp until you own one though really.
I would say its one of those situations you're paying twice as much for an extra 10% of oomph.
the best bang for your buck is by far the trailmaster 550 21t. Minimal diferences in upgrades beyond that.

if you want a smooth startup, gear down and get faster motor, instead of paying extra for a smoother motor.

[Browneye]

^^This.

Lots of performance boost with blx, but at a huge premium.

I have both as well, on advice from this group. BLX in my Bomber is unbelievable. It will roll your TRX many times over. LOL

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by Voodoobrew

I was pretty die hard brushed fan untill the mamba x firmware 2.02, the only, and I really feel this only strongly is the initial start speed. This initial brushed start speed generally dosn't have enough power for real world applications, and will just bog sown in the rough.

Brushless motors now have excelent initiall startup speeds and not as good, are still very good, Im picky about this and the brushless pro's outweigh this con.
Brushles can reach a higher rpm which will allow you to gear down ( and believe me or not you can still gear down more ) and keep your same speeds.
You can use this increased rpm range to your advantage and get back the low speed of your brushed motor but now with more torque or to have a taller top end.

Before the mamba x 2.02 update, I would have said brushed for the better downhill control.

my brushed setups are $20 trailmaster 21t paired to a $40 HW 1080.
Brushless is much more expensive, like $200 and in my opinion that is the the deciding factor. How much are you wanting to pay for a performance gain. The performance gain is not something I would ever say is twice as good.
I have both a crawlmaster 550 10t and a puller pro 2200kv the puller pro makes slightly more everything noise, power, speed, torque... I say slightly but it is also noticibly better with the naked eye or whatever also. Not that slightly better that you can't see.

But that over $140 dollars you can use somewhere else. Its not something you can realy grasp until you own one though really.
I would say its one of those situations you're paying twice as much for an extra 10% of oomph.
the best bang for your buck is by far the trailmaster 550 21t. Minimal diferences in upgrades beyond that.

if you want a smooth startup, gear down and get faster motor, instead of paying extra for a smoother motor.

I can barely understand what you are trying to say here. You ok man? Usually you are pretty coherent.

[Rekreant]

I run a mamba x with a torquemaster pro 27t, and the low speed control is absolutely amazing. There is torque at any throttle level, and its also pretty darn quiet. I also have a castle slate 1900kv I sometimes put in when I just plan on trail walking mainly for more battery life. Other than that tho, I dont think its reasonable to expect better low speed control from a brushless motor simply because there is no mechanical friction.

[Stormin2u]

I'm a diehard brushed guy. I love the HH Puller 400 13t XX its light smooth powerful and the ultimate in control you need on the rocks.

I'm currently building a Brazin Scale RC TRX-4 comp truck and there will be a Puller 400 between the the chassis rails without question. I currently own three pullers and love them to death.

Heres what JRH says about the Puller series:

The Puller 400 is the pinnacle of crawler motors for ultimate performance! It is lighter and smaller in diameter than a regular 540 motor, yet packs enough power and punch to get you through those tough sections. This motor was born out of prototype work for our team drivers, and now you can have the edge too!

[JohnRobHolmes]

Hill climbs- brushless should be your choice. Everything else said is spot on, but doing hill climbs with a brushed motor wears them out fast. Get brushless.

[Voodoobrew]

Originally Posted by Rekreant

I can barely understand what you are trying to say here. You ok man? Usually you are pretty coherent.

I was rushing out the door for work, usualy I proof read and edit :P
This is the slightly edited mess that floats in my head.

[KV242]

Originally Posted by Voodoobrew

I was pretty die hard brushed fan untill the mamba x firmware 2.02, the only, and I really feel this only strongly is the initial start speed. This initial brushed start speed generally dosn't have enough power for real world applications, and will just bog sown in the rough.

Brushless motors now have excelent initiall startup speeds and not as good, are still very good, Im picky about this and the brushless pro's outweigh this con.
Brushles can reach a higher rpm which will allow you to gear down ( and believe me or not you can still gear down more ) and keep your same speeds.
You can use this increased rpm range to your advantage and get back the low speed of your brushed motor but now with more torque or to have a taller top end.

Before the mamba x 2.02 update, I would have said brushed for the better downhill control.

my brushed setups are $20 trailmaster 21t paired to a $40 HW 1080.
Brushless is much more expensive, like $200 and in my opinion that is the the deciding factor. How much are you wanting to pay for a performance gain. The performance gain is not something I would ever say is twice as good.
I have both a crawlmaster 550 10t and a puller pro 2200kv the puller pro makes slightly more everything noise, power, speed, torque... I say slightly but it is also noticibly better with the naked eye or whatever also. Not that slightly better that you can't see.

But that over $140 dollars you can use somewhere else. Its not something you can realy grasp until you own one though really.
I would say its one of those situations you're paying twice as much for an extra 10% of oomph.
the best bang for your buck is by far the trailmaster 550 21t. Minimal diferences in upgrades beyond that.

if you want a smooth startup, gear down and get faster motor, instead of paying extra for a smoother motor.

This is the kind of information I've been looking for! Thank you. You've touched on many of the things I've wondered about. I really like the idea of gearing down more and going with a higher rpm motor. I thought I was at the limit and didn't think I could gear down further, at least not without major mods. How does one do this, as this may very well change my approach and get me to go brushless.

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Hill climbs- brushless should be your choice. Everything else said is spot on, but doing hill climbs with a brushed motor wears them out fast. Get brushless.

And with keeping this in mind too, maybe brushless is the way for me to go then.

[Voodoobrew]

By hill climbs he is talking about racing full throttle up long steep sandy hills, not exactly what most people would do with a trx 4. Not like rock crawling hills.
I haven't tried it yet to confirm but you should be able to use a 74t 48p spur with a 9t 48p pinion with a little dremmel work to the transmission housing or a 68t 48p spur and a 9t 48p and som dremmel work to the motor plate. I haven't messed with it since the gearing is already 80:1. Alternativly you could throw in a $40 ax10 transmission with 96t 48p spur and 9t 48p pinion though. I didnt say it was easy, just that it could be done (honestly I was still half asleep, the trx4 is a pain to gear down and I didn't see that's what you had). There are also planetary gear reduction units, but I don't expect they would last all that well.

[JohnRobHolmes]

A 2700kv with stock gearing in first gear is still plenty slow and tractable. Choose a larger/ longer rotor like a Puller 540 and it will handle all the second gear hill assaults he can dish out.

[KV242]

I have actually read about going to 48p gearing to increase the ratio, but that's as far as I've gone with. Honestly I have no really complaints about the ratios in the TRX-4. Lower could be nice, but I've been able to do everything I've wanted to with a 9t pinion and stock gears otherwise. I definitely don't do uphill speed runs with my TRX-4. It's heavy and not set up for speed. But one for the regions where I crawl is extremely hilly and and rocky, and provide uphill climbs of well over 200m (or 200 yards for my American friends). Honestly, the hills are probably harder on the humans walking behind than the crawlers going up! lol But I've watched the motor temp climb on the stock setup with the big inclines.

I've given a brushless setup a lot more thought, and with what you mention Voodoobrew in your first response resonates strongly with me. And with prices for Puller Pro virtually on par with their pro brushed counterparts, I think brushless is where I'm going to go. As John mentioned, I think the 2700kv is what I'll go with. Will give me more than enough wheel speed now, and hopefully enough if I deiced to lower the gearing further.

Thanks for everyone's input. It's been helpful.

[JohnRobHolmes]

I did just drop Puller prices significantly.

[soze]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

I did just drop Puller prices significantly.

OH my....

[Rekreant]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

I did just drop Puller prices significantly.

AWESOME! Thanks for that.