Brushed Motor Slot Comparison???

[Inspector86]

There seems to be an increased interest in 5 pole brushed motors in recent months. I currently own 4 hand wound 5 pole Crawlmaster Pro 550 12t motors but at $100 per they get pretty spendy. For that reason I would like to see JRH release a machine wound 5 pole Crawlmaster Expert 550 10t & 12t for $50 which would also be a good counter to the knock off motors.

[DukeMinnix]

Originally Posted by Inspector86

There seems to be an increased interest in 5 pole brushed motors in recent months. I currently own 4 hand wound 5 pole Crawlmaster Pro 550 12t motors but at $100 per they get pretty spendy. For that reason I would like to see JRH release a machine wound 5 pole Crawlmaster Expert 550 10t & 12t for $50 which would also be a good counter to the knock off motors.

I want to say in one of the endure threads he said something along those lines is coming down the pipeline, but I could be wrong.

[JohnRobHolmes]

I am working on some sealed cans first. The wire size needed for 10 and 12t make the machine wound variants especially tough to get "right" where they don't just suck and burn up. the spot welded nature of machine wound armatures don't play nicely with lower turns.

[durok]

MOAR sealed cans! Heck, yeah!

I'm running into a problem recently where I am wanting more rigs, yet am on the same budget as before when I had just a couple but threw much green at them.

The only way to pull it off for now is to at least build them to a tighter budget to start with...

BTW - this isn't so much for me, but I really think there's a decent market for some mildly-breathed-upon sealed-can 370-380-390 motors for the 1/12th vehicles out there.

You released the baby Revolver - awesome little thing - but the Barrage and CR12 modders could use something brushed!

[Jay-Em]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

I can assure you that the factories that are good at cheap are not the same ones that are good at quality. And so far all these Chinese rebuildables are testing the exact same regardless of vendor. Nobody is specing higher quality components. "High strength, high temperature high torque" means absolutely nothing, unfortunately. My sealed cans have higher grade magnets than these "high strength" rebuildables.

I see.

Well, thread has become a sales pitch. I’m outta here.

[durok]

Originally Posted by Jay-Em

I see.

Well, thread has become a sales pitch. I’m outta here.

??? ???

Ummm...

OK.

[GA Dawg]

Originally Posted by Jay-Em

I see.

Well, thread has become a sales pitch. I’m outta here.

[JohnRobHolmes]

Originally Posted by Jay-Em

I see.

Well, thread has become a sales pitch. I’m outta here.

Sales pitch is calling the lowest grade magnet possible "high strength". Sales pitch is calling a machine wound motor a "Hand wound" motor. sales pitch is having a steel can and calling it a 6061-T6 aluminum can. Alternatively, we can just be honest and call it a bunch of lies.

You can find all of these sales pitches here in this "crawler motor" that copies real features that my motors do have, slapped onto what might as well be any random motor:
https://www.surpasshobbyusa.net/surp...054000-21.html

[bbrigg]

Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes

Sales pitch is calling the lowest grade magnet possible "high strength". Sales pitch is calling a machine wound motor a "Hand wound" motor. sales pitch is having a steel can and calling it a 6061-T6 aluminum can. Alternatively, we can just be honest and call it a bunch of lies.

You can find all of these sales pitches here in this "crawler motor" that copies real features that my motors do have, slapped onto what might as well be any random motor:
https://www.surpasshobbyusa.net/surp...054000-21.html

Caveat emptor to the Nth degree.

Sent from my LG-H870DS using Tapatalk

[Hardcoretam]

I've been running one of the Yeah Racing Hackmoto Just Climb 5 slot motors for a few weeks now in my old SCX10.
13turn, on 3s with 12 degrees advanced timing.
120mm tyres, 15/90 gearing and underdrive in the rear.

With it geared so low, i didn't feel it was significantly faster, or smoother than cheap chinese 3 slot 35t (GoolRC / Surpass etc)
It was a little smoother, but it was already pretty smooth before.
I have the 16t sitting there as well but still haven't tried it from Yeah Racing also.

I've ordered the Surpass Hobby branded 11t version and the 20t version also from Chinese sellers on Ebay but i wasn't aware of the copying / copyright issues John mentioned it above. Will be interesting to see if the machine wound 11t burns up as well as it'll be used harshly.

I live in the UK and when ever i buy from the USA i always get stung by customs but never from China so i've already been using the GoolRC / Boldclash brushless motors in bashers for a while and the Boldclash regular rebuildable 3 slots and even their 550 range so never gave the branding or design a second thought up until now.

I wonder if they are identical to the Reedy 5 slot rebuildables

[Jay-Em]

Mr Holmes is pushing his motors this whole thread. Pushing them hàrd. That’s also a sales pitch imho. A sales pitch doesn’t have to be false, or false advertizing to still be a sales pitch.

If a person that makes hardware ( even if its really high quality. Don’t get me wrong. I have no doubt whatsoever Holmes’ motors are top-of-the-line) keeps pushing his/her produce over others, and slags off every other brand.. well.. It gets a bit tedious.

Sure, those crafty chinese are quite fond of putting a lot of bullpucky on the box, but to dismiss their products on beforehand?
I’d say tèst those motors, and then come back with the results. Maybe the motors dó asplode in a glorious spray of hot parts, maybe the magnets dó lose àny semblance of gauss the moment they hit 50degrees C, who knows.

But saying they’re ‘this’ or ‘that’ without any true experience with the actual products?

Oh, and those jumping up to ‘defend’ Mr Holmes, I’d say he’s qualified enough to do that himself.

[mikemcE]

Ive got no reason to Defend JRH, as I thought he educated you.
Why don’t you educate us about brushed motors and magnetic reluctance and winding and soldering and truing, Because you’re an Internet warrior pounding away. I saw JRH post the surpass copy link. Looked more like a vendor who knows who’s stealing what.

Now about those fine Cheapies, educate me.


Hang up and Drive

[JohnRobHolmes]

This isnt a "who knows" situation. I buy and dissect everything. Name a crawler motor, I've probably got a few or at least borrowed one to test. And I typically keep that information to myself out of respect for other vendors. There is certainly a place for lower quality and lower price products, I have no problem with this. Where I draw the line and become vocal is when a company claims X but doesn't have X. Who else has a guassmeter? Who else is going to buy a motor to destroy? Now that I have a more repeatable dyno I might as well buy a few more "couldn't surpass a sealed cans" to test, or will people bitch that I'm being too hard on the poor chinese company that claims the standard brushed motor bearing is "oversized bearings"?

I'm only slagging on ONE brand here, and it's because their absolutely dishonest claims and tactics aren't being pointed out by anybody else. I'm the company that they are attempting to steal brand names and yanking "features" from, so of course it's on my radar. Is the cheap motor worth the cheap price? Sure. Is that particular company worth supporting, or have they done anything to support the crawler community? So far, their MO is to falsely claim the features of an $80 motor on $20 motor. If that is what you want to support, then vote with those dollars.

[Frank211]

Originally Posted by mikemcE

Ive got no reason to Defend JRH, as I thought he educated you.
Why don’t you educate us about brushed motors and magnetic reluctance and winding and soldering and truing, Because you’re an Internet warrior pounding away. I saw JRH post the surpass copy link. Looked more like a vendor who knows who’s stealing what.

Now about those fine Cheapies, educate me.


Hang up and Drive

Where's that darn like button at !
LIKE

[M1tch]

@mikemcE I like that a lot.

[JohnRobHolmes]

I'll go ahead and list the reasons why I'm slagging so hard on one particular brand, besides them trying to use my registered and trademarked brand names. Low price has a place. Dishonest sellers should not. If you didn't follow my link, here is the claims. My findings are in ().

To begin with, the product name is "hand wound" brushed motor. It is machine wound. Right out of the gate, it's a misrepresented product.

The 540 Classic Brushed Motor featured premium quality material (materials are all lowest cost, which is reflected by the retail price) with high strength magnets (lowest strength I've tested, besides some sealed cans) for unmatched brushed motor speed and torque (one of the lowest torque density tested). Besides it's performance, the motor featured direct-solder wiring tabs for flexible soldering options. It is also designed to be rebuildable with an easily accessible commutator and replaceable brushes and springs. The motor also incorporates a dual-ball bearings design yields better performance, allowing a smooth ride, precise control with best possible efficiency. (everything else is true, except the efficiency is about 25% lower than what a 3 slot can be)



Features:

3-Slot Hi-torque Motor Design (its 3 slot, yay! it certainly does't test as high torque)
CNC Machined 6061 T6 Billet Aluminum Heatsink Can (absolutely not, it is mild steel and MUST be steel or else it wouldn't work)
High Purity Copper Windings Maximizes Efficiency (it's copper! )
High RPM Oversized Bearings (they are industry standard size, not oversized)
Precision balanced rotor,smoothness for best reliability and maximum RPM (it is balanced!)
Removable/Replaceable Rotor (tis true)
Precision Engineered for Maximum Energy Conversion (efficiency about as low as brushed motors get)
Rebuildable with an easily accessible commutator and replaceable brushes and springs (indeed!)
High strength magnets for unmatched brush-motor performance (they are very low grade, probably isotropic, as the tips do not retain field strength)
Specifically designed for R/C vehicles that require precise movement control (It's an off the shelf motor from the OEM, nothing is specifically designed for crawlers, but that's just my opinion as a person that does design motors specifically for rock crawlers)
Excellent torque and long-run times ("Excellent" is not where these stack up in the field of available crawler motors)
Direct-Solder Wiring Tabs for flexible soldering options (yay, a proper description!)
Dual-ball Bearings Design (another true claim!)





There we go. No sales pitch, just my findings. As I've stated, I have absolutely nothing against low cost budget motors. I do have a problem with vendors being this dishonest. This is the worst I've ever seen, on so many levels.

[durok]

He's a registered and paid-up vendor on this site, with a vendor star by his name.

This allows him to advertise his products on this forum - it's in the FAQ...

Do you realize how much he has contributed to the hobby and more specifically to this site in the last 15 years?

Holmes Hobbies has always had excellent customer support, and part of that support has been to let us know when someone is pushing product that is either attempting to trade on his company's name or their engineering.

I'm aware of 2 instances of specific brands. I hadn't myself yet bought any of these Surpass products, but I did buy a JX servo that was labelled as a 12V capable product, (that I had no idea at the time was based on an early prototype of the HH SHV500 servo) and the second I connected it to a 3S LiPo it sizzled and popped - any savings I thought I'd made by choosing it went up (literally) in smoke!

I'm no moneybags by any means, so when I can get away with it I still buy some budget electronics - the HobbyWing 1080 ESC, HH TrailMaster Sport motor, FlySky GT3C radio and the DS3218 servo have served me well in 1.9" and smaller-tire sized rigs in the past, but for my 2.2" rigs I use Holmes Hobbies servos and motors, Castle Creations ESCs, and ProModeler servos.

[Voodoobrew]

Durok, you got something on yer nose, just there.

For reals tho I agree, although I never would have stated it so well.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Hardcoretam]

Someone's dissing your magnets here at 9:25 JRH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYkV...Q&index=2&t=0s

Few interesting things i noticed with the whole video

Both the 35t Snow Panther 3 slot and 16t Boldclash 5 slot put out virtually the same torque, despite the skewed slots on the Boldclash. I was under the impressed skewed slots improved slow speed control, at the expensive of power. And 5 slots generally had less power than a similar 3 slot.

The Boldclash in this video looks to be using a rubber sealed bearing. The Yeah Racing Hackmoto 5 slots are likely from the same wholesaler, but mines have metal shielded bearings different from the Boldclash.

Although the Boldclash 5 slot in this video appears to have better low speed control, when under minimum load, the Holmes motor has better low speed control and start up when under load, possibly due to the extra torque.

The 5 slot Chinese motors have a terrible drag brake as shown here, and from my own experience. I'm on an original SCX10 platform, with 48p gears
Under drive in the rear. 120mm tyres. 90t spur, 15t pinion and Yeah Racing 13t 5 slot. Hobbywing 1080 with drag brake on strongest setting possible, and still won't hold on even a gentle slope, which is annoying.
The 5 slot is more useful on rocks with the smoothness, but what use is that if the drag brake is really puny?

The Boldclash speed control they give with the motor sometimes seems trully awful in terms of smoothness.

[svt923]

Originally Posted by Hardcoretam

Someone's dissing your magnets here at 9:25 JRH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYkV...Q&index=2&t=0s

Oh no, how will Holmes Hobbies ever survive after that brutal verbal thrashing from a random Youtube shill with 200 subscribers?