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Old 11-10-2019, 10:19 AM   #1
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Default Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

Final summary bumped to the top here 11/27/2019:
For now I’d say this looks like a successful upgrade path. Two packs through without any over-voltage zaps to the receiver. The Crawlmaster Sport 550 pairs exceptionally well with this battery’s voltage and programmed differentials in a Quicrun 880. The heat gun says we’re maintaining low temps, although the ambient temperature while running was quite cool. I tried to stress the system with a variety of variables. Should any more receivers burn through I’ll note that here in the future.
Read below for details from the past month. All the best, Lincoln

I ordered one of these and a cheapie GoldBat 4S 2200Mah to experiment with. It won’t be in until the he 16th and if you have any recommendations I’m all ears. BRXL is the next step and obviously a superior choice, but I’ll experiment a bit along the way.
The combo can go in any of the following and I have a temp gun and a HW program card if you have 4S recommendations for that. Gearing and drivetrain in these rigs is all stock and no external BECs or cap packs.
Enduro RTR HH 35T Expert.
UMG10/ SCX10ii kit HH Crawlmaster 13T Expert
TRX4 Bronco 21T (prolly a poor choice with all the micro servos to damage)

I’m not trying to fine tune the gearing, initially, but I’ve got a few spare SCT pinions to play with.

I’ll get back to you locs with whatever we find out.

Last edited by LincolnofDeath; 11-27-2019 at 02:30 PM. Reason: Summary of findings
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Old 11-10-2019, 10:23 PM   #2
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

The BRXL isn't "obviously" a superior choice. I tried one and ended up replacing it with a WP860 Dual, the precursor to the WP880 Dual. The BRXL doesn't have double-tap reversing (nor does the Castle Sidewinder ESC it's based on), which is a very bad thing if you happen to be using the BRXL in a vehicle that doesn't use drag-braking, such as a TRX-4 in trail-driving mode, or in my case a Summit. Why? Because the vehicle could still be coasting at high speed when you push the trigger forward and kick the ESC into reverse instead of engaging the brake. Wanna trash your drivetrain? That's a pretty quick way to do it. The BRXL does have more tunable settings than the WP880 Dual, but I didn't find any of them to be particularly useful for hobby-grade driving. They might be useful for competition-grade driving, but I can't say from experience.

The WP880 Dual is more than enough ESC for hobby-grade trail driving. The WP860 Dual had obvious deficiencies, but the WP880 Dual fixed that problem -- and since I had specifically asked Hobbywing to make a programmable version of the WP860 Dual with a higher-voltage BEC, I put my money where my mouth was and I bought four of them. Considering I initially refused to buy Hobbywing products on the basis that they were too cheap to be worthy of my attention, it says something that I'm content with their newer products. I'm even considering an Axe system for my TRX-6, but that will have to wait a few months; I have other expenses to deal with first.

Last edited by fyrstormer; 11-10-2019 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 11-11-2019, 12:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

I went with dual 880's (and snipped off a set of motor leads from each, 1 motor per esc) on my MOA build specifically so I could run 4s. Other than the non-selectable bec voltage (which is a solid 4a/6v), they did everything the 1080's did, and they're cheaper to boot (I caught a sale and got them for $28 each.) Without the fan, and with the heatsink removed they're actually smaller/lighter than the 1080 is too. No complaints, and I'll probably go with the 880 again the next time I need a brushed esc. I ran an 860 in few cars with a large variety of motors previously just so I could cheaply run 4s, and the 880 is MUCH smoother. A 550 brushed motor on 4s never left me wanting for power in a crawler, where occasionally 3s wouldn't have cut the mustard for me. I think less people would run brushless in their crawlers if they'd give brushed/4s a try. It's cheap, smooth, and pretty powerful. A Crawlmaster Sport 12t 550 and WP880 on 4s would be a heck of a good budget all 'rounder.
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:51 AM   #4
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

“A 550 brushed motor on 4s never left me wanting for power in a crawler, where occasionally 3s wouldn't have cut the mustard for me. I think less people would run brushless in their crawlers if they'd give brushed/4s a try. It's cheap, smooth, and pretty powerful. A Crawlmaster Sport 12t 550 and WP880 on 4s would be a heck of a good budget all 'rounder.”

—-What you guys wrote here...thanks. I do think I saw you both mention what you’d done back deep within the posts. The folks promoting 4S seemed to always describe upping the voltage as a “no brainer”...and being new it makes sense to pay attention when you guys who obviously know what your talking about. Voodoo and WT, quite a few of you other serious minded folk write things like,
“Most run 2s because they just don't know any better. I didn't own any 2s until this last year, I started on 3s and moved to 4s.” —White Trash (is it Eric?). 4S and low gearing to get good crawling and speed?

And because it’s people with lots of experience usually managing fairly complicated or advanced builds it’s sometimes hard to figure out whether this would work for, as you, say “an all-rounder”. Lol, especially for someone who learned to solder like last week. Good idea for trying this basic setup with a HH 12T. Probably need to buy some 10 gauge wire while I’m out today.

This is fun.
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Old 11-13-2019, 02:05 AM   #5
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

Well, regarding battery voltage specifically, I guess I still don't know any better. My only 4S vehicles are my Summit and my Electric T-Maxx. I might add a new Maxx to my RC shelf if I can find room, and that will require 4S also, but that's in the future. All of my crawlers, even my lead-and-brass-weighted Axial Wraith, run on 2S. I don't mind making my crawler motors suffer a bit to do their jobs, and I know the batteries can handle dumping lots of amps, because that's the biggest reason we use LiPo batteries nowadays. (it sure isn't because we enjoy paying more money or because the risk of a lithium fire sounds exciting.) The only reason my Summit and Electric T-Maxx run on 4S is because their motors are designed for 4S and they are simply too heavy to run on anything smaller. For crawling, I prefer to use 2-speed gearboxes to get higher speed or higher torque as necessary, because I enjoy a little unnecessary mechanical complexity for fun, as long as it works well. It's a toy, right? Optimizing it too much takes the fun out of it for me -- I do that for a living.

Last edited by fyrstormer; 11-13-2019 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 11-15-2019, 09:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

You see what we’re doing here? We’re taking a perfectly good RTR Element Enduro, except for that admittedly REALLY squeaky front drivetrain, and swapping everyone’s favorite ESC for a Hobbywing Quicrun 880 on an untested GoldBat 4S Amazon special. It’s soldered up nicely and ready to be flung into the street if it should burst into flames. Forgive me the drama, but I don’t know shit about this sort of thing. Ready, set, go!
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

How is this for a totally acceptable level of kluge, lol?

No fried wiring connection, receiver seems content with the voltage...all things that I’m sure folks with more experience would expect. It’s dark and cold out, but the motor and ESC seem perfectly content to blast around at stock gearing. So no drama to report. I’ll get little Steve out with a heat gun tomorrow and flush that out a bit. If anyone wants to tell me “Absolutely DO NOT run that thing full speed with stock gearing!” I’d love to hear that ASAP because I only have mail order for replacement parts around here. Also, low-voltage cutoff at “medium” for a 2200 50c? I’d like to drop that to “low” with the HW programmer but need to control for a few probably imagined variables, unless someone chooses to set me straight in the meantime. And if you have a cheatsheet for that programmer, maybe for a trail-spec, SCX10ii / Enduro Crawlmaster 13T, or crawl-spec, I can better contrast between the two in an apples-to-apples report.

Initial observation is this is super cool. The same-same 30%-ish voltage increase increase that wakes up a 2S to 3S swap makes for almost ludicrous wheel speed, if one’s stock gear on 2S is the control group, right? Okay, I’ve got a firm grasp on the obvious here. But with a cheap battery and devil-may-care attitude toward the driveline, it works just fine. And by fine, let’s qualify this with “totally limited run on the street in the dark” and in the hands of elated newb, then go from there. But the ESC itself, it’s not seeming to be perceptibly different from from a HW 1080.

I’ll try to have a little more detailed feedback tomorrow. Hope you’re having an awesome Friday night, wherever you are.
Lincoln
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

And thanks Fyrstormer, TheLetterJ (in Sesame Street voice), Voodoo, and WhiteTrash. A few others, of course, too. Muchly appreciated, your thoughts and insight.
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Old 11-16-2019, 05:16 AM   #9
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LincolnofDeath View Post
How is this for a totally acceptable level of kluge, lol?



No fried wiring connection, receiver seems content with the voltage...all things that I’m sure folks with more experience would expect. It’s dark and cold out, but the motor and ESC seem perfectly content to blast around at stock gearing. So no drama to report. I’ll get little Steve out with a heat gun tomorrow and flush that out a bit. If anyone wants to tell me “Absolutely DO NOT run that thing full speed with stock gearing!” I’d love to hear that ASAP because I only have mail order for replacement parts around here. Also, low-voltage cutoff at “medium” for a 2200 50c? I’d like to drop that to “low” with the HW programmer but need to control for a few probably imagined variables, unless someone chooses to set me straight in the meantime. And if you have a cheatsheet for that programmer, maybe for a trail-spec, SCX10ii / Enduro Crawlmaster 13T, or crawl-spec, I can better contrast between the two in an apples-to-apples report.



Initial observation is this is super cool. The same-same 30%-ish voltage increase increase that wakes up a 2S to 3S swap makes for almost ludicrous wheel speed, if one’s stock gear on 2S is the control group, right? Okay, I’ve got a firm grasp on the obvious here. But with a cheap battery and devil-may-care attitude toward the driveline, it works just fine. And by fine, let’s qualify this with “totally limited run on the street in the dark” and in the hands of elated newb, then go from there. But the ESC itself, it’s not seeming to be perceptibly different from from a HW 1080.



I’ll try to have a little more detailed feedback tomorrow. Hope you’re having an awesome Friday night, wherever you are.

Lincoln
Actually it's not realy the high speeds that cause the issue with stock gearing. It's going realy slow in the rocks. When the motor bogs down, has power but dosent spin. Parking on a hill for a while with the active drag brake on can do it even. Physical resistance to the drive train increases amp draw which creates heat.

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Old 11-16-2019, 09:05 AM   #10
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

(Sound of lightbulbs turning on...) Totally makes sense, along with the “free-wheeling” conversation I’ve been trying to get my head around. Brought the setup to work here but the battery drained out over night, so a tactical pause for now.
Sidebar: What 4S batteries fit a Capra, anyone? I think that’s where this’ll end up at some point. On second thought, that might be better recorded in a separate thead.
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Old 11-16-2019, 10:20 AM   #11
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LincolnofDeath View Post
How is this for a totally acceptable level of kluge, lol?



No fried wiring connection, receiver seems content with the voltage...all things that I’m sure folks with more experience would expect. It’s dark and cold out, but the motor and ESC seem perfectly content to blast around at stock gearing. So no drama to report. I’ll get little Steve out with a heat gun tomorrow and flush that out a bit. If anyone wants to tell me “Absolutely DO NOT run that thing full speed with stock gearing!” I’d love to hear that ASAP because I only have mail order for replacement parts around here. Also, low-voltage cutoff at “medium” for a 2200 50c? I’d like to drop that to “low” with the HW programmer but need to control for a few probably imagined variables, unless someone chooses to set me straight in the meantime. And if you have a cheatsheet for that programmer, maybe for a trail-spec, SCX10ii / Enduro Crawlmaster 13T, or crawl-spec, I can better contrast between the two in an apples-to-apples report.



Initial observation is this is super cool. The same-same 30%-ish voltage increase increase that wakes up a 2S to 3S swap makes for almost ludicrous wheel speed, if one’s stock gear on 2S is the control group, right? Okay, I’ve got a firm grasp on the obvious here. But with a cheap battery and devil-may-care attitude toward the driveline, it works just fine. And by fine, let’s qualify this with “totally limited run on the street in the dark” and in the hands of elated newb, then go from there. But the ESC itself, it’s not seeming to be perceptibly different from from a HW 1080.



I’ll try to have a little more detailed feedback tomorrow. Hope you’re having an awesome Friday night, wherever you are.

Lincoln
Actually it's not realy the high speeds that cause the issue with stock gearing. It's going realy slow in the rocks. When the motor bogs down, has power but dosent spin. Parking on a hill for a while with the active drag brake on can do it even. Physical resistance to the drive train increases amp draw which creates heat.

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Old 11-16-2019, 07:56 PM   #12
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

Youtube video below is first demo, on flat tarmac to check out wheel speed with stock gearing. Pretty dang zippy. I like it. Here’s five seconds of furiousness, it’s just a ten second example but I wanted to follow up to these posts as soon as possible.
Again, this is 4S, 540 Crawlmaster Expert 13T, Quicrun 880, no BEC, Enduro RTR.

I have an 11T pinion on hand and a 550 Crawlmaster Sport inbound.

Need to figure out where that squeak and drag is coming from in the front axle, maybe.


https://youtu.be/vABmbgooc-Q

Last edited by LincolnofDeath; 11-18-2019 at 10:31 AM. Reason: Bad writing on my part
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:40 AM   #13
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

2S series for 4S
I’m gonna leave this here for reference. With thanks to Bbrigg in Indonesia, Humboldt and John Holmes in a thread from yesterday regarding series values...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LincolnofDeath View Post
Related/Unrelated, can I ask here if 1) 2x identical 2S 2200Mah 40c in a series connection maintains a 14.8 discharge for 4400Mah of discharge? Or all things being equal, in layman’s terms, at full throttle, vs. a single 2S 2200Mah 40c battery...roughly the same amount of run time, and what we’d expect running a 4S battery with ____ Mah. Maybe that oversimplifies everything, but I’m stretching my head around ballpark figures, I guess.
2) and if we show the same 2X 2S in parallel, does that, again in layman’s term, work out roughly to twice the run time, like I might find in a 2S 4400 Mah battery?

JRH’s response: 2x packs in series will have a higher voltage but same mah. 4s 2200mah. you must also use identical cells. Any smaller MAH pack will get damaged if put in series with larger cells, the opposite of running in parallel.

in parallel, it would be 2s 4400 mah.

Think of runtime being represented by the physical size of the pack. If you doubled the voltage with two packs in series, but then halved your gearing or kv to keep wheelspeed the same (and thus wattage needed), you now have twice the battery pack and almost twice the runtime. Additionally, if you doubled the mah with two packs in parallel, you would have nearly twice the runtime. Only nearly, because the extra battery weight increases load slightly.
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Old 11-23-2019, 02:51 AM   #14
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

Third solid pack in and looks like we burned the receiver. The ESC powers on and arms but no light on the stock Team Associated receiver, no throttle and no steering but the fan running direct from the ESC is still humming along. Will next trade it out for a Flysky I’ve got on hand. Is this why we should use a dedicated BEC or maybe a receiver bypass? This is a wag and it could be that the Rx was just a tired receiver with 60-ish packs through it. I’m a little light on observations because it went out while my friend (looking at you, lol!) Everett was driving. Eh, he’s a better driver than me, anyway. We were working through and building passable trail as we went, through a pretty preposterous pile of castoff concrete and such. Neither the motor nor ESC seemed uncommonly hot at the time, although the receiver had some definite heat when I finally got it open to see what might be going on. It was still all plugged in and turned on, and the battery had plenty of juice left in it.

If you have any insight, I’m all ears. In the meantime, I’ll stick that Flysky module in without (still) a dedicated BEC and if it fries again at 6V, drop the gearing down significantly...what do you think, guys? I think a Crawlmaster Sport 12T 550 is going in here next. It has the 13TExpert in there now. If you happen to have ideas for pinion size or if maybe the onboard BEC is inadequate, I’ll happily take your steering. This has been a fun experiment so far. Cheers!
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:01 AM   #15
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

I ordered an 880 from the slow boat myself finally.
Whenever someone thinks they burned up a receiver, my first advice is to unplug the servos (and leave them unplugged) and try again. If you get throttle it might not be the receiver.
My guess is the steering servo burns up more receivers then esc's in crawling but could be anything. all the amps from the steering go through the receiver, where the esc amps, mostly do not.

You can try shaking a chicken at it to fix it, but in my experience that rarely works.
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:37 AM   #16
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

LMAO...I have an extra chicken on hand, I’ll copy some tricky incantations out of this here old ass book and try that out during the sacrifice. Thanks for for the hint—-I’ll do as you say and unplug the servo. I won’t get ahead of myself, but if that shows what you trying to tell me and there’s some throttle then we’ll go from there.

Can I ask you for a little help on what you wrote here: “from the steering go through the receiver, mostly where amps, many do not”? I’m all in on what you’re trying to help me figure out. And I get that it isn’t helping anyone that I’ve got some box stock cheapo equipment to mastermind, just saying. The servo is at 6V according to the programmer “card” and servo is a DS3218, BTW. At least we know the Crawlmaster Expert is pretty solid. Thanks Voodoo, your ideas here are excellent. Let’s do this! Godspeed to your Quicrun Speedpack from Hk, lol.

I know these are comparatively small beans we’re investing in here, but I’m stoked to to be trying to figure out a really dynamic power/torque adder on the cheap. Lots of love and maybe this will be a cool option for other folks in the future.
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:51 AM   #17
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

My wife just this as “the amps go through the servo and burn up the receiver” and she may have just interpreted the concept for my thick dyslexic brain...she doesn’t know what a BEC is , but should I be putting a BEC between the receiver and it’s servo? I can start looking at that in the meantime...stuff I need to get my brain around soon anyway.
I’ll do as you say, and thanks.
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Old 11-23-2019, 05:15 AM   #18
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

I wold assume the bec in the esc is strong enough if you don't get wierd glitches when you use the servo. If the esc's bec is weak the servo makes the throttle brown out or something wonky like that.

The 1080 has a great bec in it. I am Just assuming the 880 is just as good.

As you say after 20 packs some times stuff just breaks too.

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Old 11-23-2019, 05:16 AM   #19
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

And yes I think your wife translated well

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Old 11-23-2019, 05:18 AM   #20
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Default Re: Hobbywing Quicrun WP 880 on 4S (Newb)

Well the amps for the servo run through the reciever. But close enough. Weth an external bec you can make the amps bypass the reciever.

I don't think it's usualy an issue. But who knows.

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