Coasting with the Hobbywing AXE R2. Bit dissapointed.

[Cuiken]

So the latest version of the Hobbywing AXE come with two modes of operation. It has standard Forward/Reverse with drag brake (like any other crawler ESC) but also a new Forward/Brake/Reverse mode for bashing like a 'normal' ESC.

I bought the 3300KV R2 for my Wendigo with the intention to use it primarily in 'bashing' mode (since the Wendigo is not really a crawler). I've geared the truck down from standard as the 'book' top speed of 30mph is simply daft on a crawler chassis. Using an 11T pinion (vs stock 17T) i I'm getting around n18mph top speed. All good.

All in, it works pretty well, tons of power and punch, some level of low speed control, handy blue tooth programming, no heat issues at all.

Only oddity/annoyance is that, when in 'bashing' mode, it still seems to have a ton of drag brake. Since the thing is meant to be forward/brake/reverse I'd expected the drag brake to be disabled but releasing the throttle still results in rapid deceleration. In 'bashing mode' there is a reduced set of programing options with drag brake adjustments disabled.

Additionally, in 'bashing mode', you can't set the level of FOC operation. FOC matches motor speed to desired throttle. Awesome (like really awesome) when crawling but not 'natural' when runing at speed as it tries to activley control wheel speed at all times even when mid throttle or when slowing down.

The upshot of this is that you can't really 'coast'. The truck slows rapidly when throttle is released and if you run at speed in a mid throttle position you can hear the motor fighting to keep the truck at a fixed speed as the terrain changes.

Ultimately, without being able to select zero or minal drag brake and also to be able to disable FOC, the 'bashing mode' does not really seem like a lot of use to me. Has anyone else experienced similar?

Maybe I should just have gone for a HW XR8 but I liked the idea of being able to configure for crawling on occasion. Unfortunately to have this I think I've compromised the main useage of the truck.

And yes, there is also the Castle Mamba X but these are not currently available in Europe (been out of stock for an age now) so require importing with daft tax costs.

As I say, bit dissapointed in the usability of the ESC/Motor combo for non crawling. Curious what others think.

Cheers.

[redemon]

Hmm. That is odd and I wonder if a email to HW would maybe shed some light to it. Im interested to hear if it can be fixed. That setup would seem perfect on paper for the Wendigo to be honest. I will be building the kit for a showroom model and thought about using the 550 3300kv setup in it to have the best of both worlds kinda deal.

[Cuiken]

Yeah, it's not ideal.

Someone else has pointed out to me that the mode may really be for trail driving rather than flat out bashing and I guess that would make sense. The reduced set of tunig options in basher mode certainly suggest its not intended as athe primary mode (maybe I should have spotted that).

TBF, I've not tried the standard crawling mode with the drag brake reduced to minimum and the FOC set to low. I'll try to give that a shot this evening to see how it compares.

Worth noting too that I'm running an 11T pinion on my wendigo (vs stock 17T) so the gear ratio from the wheels back to the motor means I'll likely see quite a bit of natural motor drag when decelerating/coasting. This may be upsetting the sensored controller in the ESC.

To that end, maybe an XR8 with its 'coasting' feature might genuinely work better?

And, yes, I've sent an email to Hobbywing to see what they say.

Cheers.

[Voodoobrew]

Its brushless so there are no brushes to cause much motor drag.

[Cuiken]

Okay, just to see what I could figure out, I put it into 'crawler' mode with the drag brake at minimum and FOC in 'low'. Drives brilliantly. No drag brake issues at all (rolls and rolls off throttle) and coasts far more naturally. Really nice to drive. Only issue, no actual brake funtion in this mode (which is really why I bought it).

I then put it back to 'basher' mode to double check and it suddenly had loads of drag brake and really 'jerky' coasting again. Just horrid to drive. Dissapointed. Basically, it's a superb crawler ESC/Motor combo but the 'basher' mode is so horrid that I'd say it's pretty much worthless. I really wanted the brake function available that's only in basher mode so it's not going to work for me. Bit the bullet and bought an XR8 instead.

[Steve g]

I'd say cancel the xr8 and get a castle mamba x. Much more adjustability, has rock racer mode which is what you're after, and has throttle curve. I have a couple trucks I drive like you, and wouldn't be able to use any other esc after using the mamba x.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Cuiken]

Yeah, lot of love out there for the mamba x just can't buy them in Europe/UK. There's been no stock for months.

You can buy them from the US but import tax is eye watering and you get no seller warranty.

[Steve g]

Yeah heard of that. Thats unfortunate. Can you at least do a throttle curve on the xr8 now? I know a few years ago you couldn't.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[redemon]

Yeah I will be going Mamba X and a Holmes motor in the store Wendigo

[Cuiken]

I emailed a couple of model shops yesterday. No date available for Castle ESCs. I could go the eBay route but it's not ideal.

The XR8 doesn't have a throttle curve but my Controller (FS GT5) has programable curves that I use on my other trucks. Maybe not ESC standard but a huge improvement over linear control.

Aside from that I think it has most features of the castle ESC aside from drag brake ramp and the ability to switch modes via the AUX1 port.

Given the relative ease of buying a HW XR8 locally plus it's 2/3 price, I reckon it's worth a punt.

Oh, and HW got back to me on the AXE behaviour with a response that makes no sense (apparently the added drag brake in 'basher' mode is because the drag brake is set to 0%, I think they got themselves confused). I'm still chatting with them.

Cheers.

[MizuNoLorien]

If you don’t mind keep us posted with hobbywing response, I’m interested in the basher mode too, maybe they can fix it in a firmware upgrade.

[redemon]

I to am still interested in a response and maybe a patch. Would be cool if they could make the basher mode actually be free wheel

[MizuNoLorien]

I asked them myself and this is the response:


“Due to the driving principle/characteristics of FOC, when the speed is reduced from one speed to another or 0, there is a feeling/effect of "braking", like 1:1 electric car(EV car).
It's not that the software has set the drag brake or there is a problem. It is different from other general escs (non FOC driving technology).”

I responded asking why the controls for drag brake and rpm matching are disabled in basher mode, let’s see what they say.

[Cuiken]

Yep, I had that exact response form them too! Almost like it is a copy/paste.

I then asked them why the effect goes away in F/R mode with drag brake and throttle matching set to minimum but remains present in F/B/R mode when drag brake and throttle matching are apparently disabled.

There then followed a series of really confusing messages (I won't bore you) so I tried to restate my original question:


Me - Are the drag brake and throttle matching functions actually disabled in F/B/R mode or simply attenuated?

HW - These two parameters are disabled (user can't set / change them), and they are fixed to the minimum value.

Me - Okay, thanks, understood. Since the drag brake and throttle matching are fixed to their minimum value in F/B/R mode, why does the truck show greater drag brake and throttle matching than in F/R mode with drag brake and throttle matching programmed to minimum?

HW ................................

Me - Anyone there? (echo)

So, the conversation seemed to dry up. I sent them a bump this evening but I'm not holding my breath.

It's not like I want a refund or anything. Just an explanantion of the behaviour so I can better understand it and maybe choose a more appropriate product next time if I've simply misunderstood what it it meant to do. Even better, maybe a statement that the software is still being developed and thanks for the feedback. Sadly got neither.

FYI, I stuck with it and ran a few more packs but the truck just drives nasty in the F/B/R mode. Jerky and hesitent like it's constantly ahead or behind the throttle.

In the end I ordered the castle mamba x 1410 combo from the US. Just hoping it proves reliable (no warranty over here I don't think).

Cheers.

[MizuNoLorien]

New response, hopefully they’re really working on it. I doubt we’ll see it in this generation though.

“It's the FOC principle that brings this characteristic when it's used in normal mode(F/R/b) or general racing cars, so the most suitable application of FOC technology(AXE system) is the Crawler.
Our software engineer is also trying to make it more perfect for general racing cars(normal mode), once there is a new firmware, we will upload it to app. Thank you.”

[Cuiken]

Same response for me:

'This will return to the topic of FOC, It is because the direct application of FOC to normal mode brings this characteristic.
If want to have the same effect as the general non-Foc escs applied to the general racing(F/B/R running mode) cars, we do need to improve it and our software engineers are trying to do this.
Once there is a new firmware, we will upload it to app. Thank you very much for your supporting.'

Taken at face value this is good news. It's a cracking motor/ESC otherwise.

[MizuNoLorien]

Originally Posted by Cuiken

Taken at face value this is good news. It's a cracking motor/ESC otherwise.

If only there was a changelog of the software releases somewhere!

[Cuiken]

So, in the end I bought that Castle Mamba X Combo with the 3800kV motor on eBay. Got lucky and it oinly took 5 days to get to the UK from the US. Installed and tried it out tonight. Bear in mind first impressions are with all settings at default (still waiting for the USB link thingy to program the ESC).

First observations on default settings:

1. Its very smooth across the mid and high power range. Far nicer to drive than the HW AXE R2 was in F/B/R mode when you are hooning about
2. After a 10 min blast about the motor and ESC were stone cold
3. Wee bit more punch or maybe imediacy than the HW (on default settings).
4. Not quite as smooth as the HW at very low speeds
5. Not able to run quite as slowly as the HW was able to with the same gearing so not as good for crawling (at least with my Wendigo's gearing, 11T pinion down from stock 17T). In an actual crawler it would be fine.
6. In common with everfy other brushless setup aside form the HW, it's a bit noisy. The relative silence of the HW AXE is very nice.

All told, it will suit my purposes better than the AXE R2 setup but I'll miss that super low speed control.

Hope that is helpful for someone.

[redemon]

Yeah Im not really sure what way im gonna go with my shop build wendigo. Mamba X and a Puller Pro may be the answer

[MizuNoLorien]

Spektrum is apparently putting out a sensored crawler esc soon, as stated by Cogswell in a comment on Facebook. Given the prior firma escs is probably gonna be a rebranded/modified hobbywing one. I guess I’ll wait for that to come out.