High-ish speeds: brushed or brushless?

[ScaleLifeNewbie]

I am building a Trail King very soon and it’s going to be a trail truck/tow rig/very light crawling rig. I need a motor/ESC setup that has enough speed for trail riding(10+mph), but also have enough torque to be able to pull a truck on a trailer. I am trying to decide between brushless or brushed. Obviously for a brushed setup I would have to play with gearing to be able to hit those kinds of speeds.

I am looking at kv ratings that high because my batteries are 2S. I’m not really looking at any of the Hobbywing brushless setups due to having to stay with Hobbywing motors.

These are the setups I’ve been looking at:

Brushless:
Mamba X 3800kv Combo
Puller Pro 4100kv with Mamba X
TrailMaster Pro 4500kv with Mamba X

Brushed:
Crawlmaster 8T with 1080
TrailMaster 12T with 1080

Any and all advice/tips are welcome as I am new to the brushless scene.




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79 F150 SCX10 ii
TRXWalker

[ScaleLifeNewbie]

I think I’m going to go ahead and get the Mamba X. It fits the bill and leaves room for upgrading and playing around(like being 6S compatible and having common plugs) judging off Exocaged’s videos, it seems to be reasonable on speed even on 2S.

Opinions are still welcome!




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79 F150 SCX10 ii
TRXWalker

[mikemcE]

Those KV’s are high, a 2700 PullerPro will work great.


Hang up and Drive

[ScaleLifeNewbie]

Originally Posted by mikemcE

Those KV’s are high, a 2700 PullerPro will work great.


Hang up and Drive

Even on a 2S?




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https://www.instagram.com/jacobcvpi/

79 F150 SCX10 ii
TRXWalker

[natsb]

As someone who went with the Mamba X 3800kv Combo, I have this to say.

It goes way over the 10+ target. I set mine to 50% for trails, 25% to let the kids play, and 100% to do all out crazy stuff. You will have to adjust the throttle curve, but at 100%, you get incredible torque for crawling. I have been most happy with this combo after switching to a 11T pinion gear.

[ScaleLifeNewbie]

Originally Posted by natsb

As someone who went with the Mamba X 3800kv Combo, I have this to say.

It goes way over the 10+ target. I set mine to 50% for trails, 25% to let the kids play, and 100% to do all out crazy stuff. You will have to adjust the throttle curve, but at 100%, you get incredible torque for crawling. I have been most happy with this combo after switching to a 11T pinion gear.

Good to hear lol. I liked high gear bashing in my TRX4, but it was just a little too slow for that.

What chassis were you running it in?




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https://www.instagram.com/jacobcvpi/

79 F150 SCX10 ii
TRXWalker

[Deerhurst]

I've got one of the 3800KV mamba combos in my carbon fiber chassis e-slayer race truck. It's gear just under 1:1 and absolutely rips on 2s. I usually run 3-4s to clear big doubles but it's got plenty of go on 2s. Gobs of torque.

Unless yours is sensored you'll end up hating it on the trail.

Sent from my Phone 2 using Tapatalk

[natsb]

Originally Posted by ScaleLifeNewbie

Good to hear lol. I liked high gear bashing in my TRX4, but it was just a little too slow for that.

What chassis were you running it in?




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https://www.instagram.com/jacobcvpi/

79 F150 SCX10 ii
TRXWalker

I have the combo in a Capra. Another fun fact... At 100%, enough torque can be generated to tip the nose up or down while in flight so you land on all four wheels.

It would take a better driver than me to enjoy running with an 3S at 100%. The front wheels always lift off the ground and the car spends a great deal of time tumbling rather that rolling.

[Sniper4370]

Originally Posted by mikemcE

Those KV’s are high, a 2700 PullerPro will work great.


Hang up and Drive

Originally Posted by ScaleLifeNewbie

Even on a 2S?







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https://www.instagram.com/jacobcvpi/

79 F150 SCX10 ii
TRXWalker

Yes. Although, better on 3s. I have this combo in my VS4-10 Pro and had it in my SCX10.2. The 10.2 seemed a bit quicker but, it is also a bit lighter than the Pro. Both on stock gearing. I think I will try 4s for the .

[ScaleLifeNewbie]

Originally Posted by natsb

I have the combo in a Capra. Another fun fact... At 100%, enough torque can be generated to tip the nose up or down while in flight so you land on all four wheels.



It would take a better driver than me to enjoy running with an 3S at 100%. The front wheels always lift off the ground and the car spends a great deal of time tumbling rather that rolling.

That sounds like fun lmao. It seems like I can’t go wrong with it.
Do I need to get the Castle Link separate?

Thanks!



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https://www.instagram.com/island_crawlaz/

79 F150 SCX10 ii
TRXWalker

[natsb]

Originally Posted by ScaleLifeNewbie

That sounds like fun lmao. It seems like I can’t go wrong with it.
Do I need to get the Castle Link separate?

Thanks!



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https://www.instagram.com/island_crawlaz/

79 F150 SCX10 ii
TRXWalker

Yes, the Link is separate, but... When you buy the combo, you get a coupon for a free Link or a $10 Field Link.

[ScaleLifeNewbie]

Originally Posted by natsb

Yes, the Link is separate, but... When you buy the combo, you get a coupon for a free Link or a $10 Field Link.

Ok cool, thanks man!


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https://www.instagram.com/island_crawlaz/

79 F150 SCX10 ii
TRXWalker

[HumboldtEF]

Just so you know, you probably dont want the field link you'll instead want the castle link. The field link can only adjust some settings where the castle link can do it all though it does require a Windows PC.

[ScaleLifeNewbie]

Originally Posted by HumboldtEF

Just so you know, you probably dont want the field link you'll instead want the castle link. The field link can only adjust some settings where the castle link can do it all though it does require a Windows PC.

Yep, learned that from JRH


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https://www.instagram.com/island_crawlaz/

79 F150 SCX10 ii
TRXWalker

[Voodoobrew]

putting $300 into a brushless system is silly if you want to run on 2s... you pay all that money just to handicap it with low voltage?
2s I would only use if there are rules and regulations requiring it.

[natsb]

Originally Posted by Voodoobrew

putting $300 into a brushless system is silly if you want to run on 2s... you pay all that money just to handicap it with low voltage?
2s I would only use if there are rules and regulations requiring it.

I am not sure I would qualify it as silly. Some of us are new to the platform and don't have the skills to handle what happens when an 3S is installed. I have both 2S and 3S batteries available, so it is not a one or the other situation. It is simply a matter of growing into a more capable platform as my skills grow. The best way for that to happen is to have a set up that allows for growth.

[ScaleLifeNewbie]

Originally Posted by Voodoobrew

putting $300 into a brushless system is silly if you want to run on 2s... you pay all that money just to handicap it with low voltage?
2s I would only use if there are rules and regulations requiring it.

I think paying $100 for shipping one battery plus another $80 for the cost of one is silly. I would like to get a couple 3S batteries, but I’m not paying that much.

Only batteries that can be shipped here without being crazy expensive are the Nimh batteries which I feel would be pointless to get them.

Would ya look at that! Found a way to not have to use overpriced Traxxas batteries on my charger, so I can get cheaper batteries, and the shipping isn’t as much.

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https://www.instagram.com/island_crawlaz/

79 F150 SCX10 ii
TRXWalker

[Voodoobrew]

you are more likley to burn up a motor crawling on 2s then 3s
Because you will more then likley be over geared on a 2s setup.
On 2s it takes more amps to get similar power.
Amps are where the heat comes from.
4s is even better IMO.

Better is just an opinion and in the states lipo batteries are not that expensive.
I can get a 3s battery for $20 easy.

But I never suggest a 2s battery even for learning on. It can burn up motors. if you want more slow then look at gearing first.

I have 4s 21t 2200kv 550 motors that that are slower then walking speed at full throttle. They run cool as a cucumber. and the control is immaculate due to all the torque from the powerful motor, higher voltage and gear reduction.

But not everyone wants that much torque, some people like the motor to bog down.

Unless you need more power then that setup (battery $20, motor $20, esc #30, in the USA) I wouldn't really recommend paying the extra for brushless. because its a huge jump in price.

And depending on your choices you could get a brushed setup for 3x the price that makes less power pretty easily, just because you chose a 2s battery.

I am not sure why a 3s or 4s would have so much more cost the the 2s battery. You pretty much pay by weight here. A 4s 500mah battery has the same power as a 2s 1000mah battery. but the power is much more accessible in the 4s pack and creates less heat and more power in the car.

If you chose to use the power it will die faster however. But depending on your driving it can also last longer. because your not wasting as much into heat.

A brushed motor has a rpm limit of closer to 37,000rpm, brushless motor go 50,000rpm+ no problem. You need a 6000kv motor to do that on 2s and it will probably over heat anyways. A 6s 2000kv setup stays pretty cool and goes just as fast.

The 2s battery is just a crutch. But if your stuck with it...
I would build a battery from used laptop batteries before settling for 2s.
But again just an opinion based on US prices.

[ScaleLifeNewbie]

Originally Posted by Voodoobrew

you are more likley to burn up a motor crawling on 2s then 3s
Because you will more then likley be over geared on a 2s setup.
On 2s it takes more amps to get similar power.
Amps are where the heat comes from.
4s is even better IMO.

Better is just an opinion and in the states lipo batteries are not that expensive.
I can get a 3s battery for $20 easy.

But I never suggest a 2s battery even for learning on. It can burn up motors. if you want more slow then look at gearing first.

I have 4s 21t 2200kv 550 motors that that are slower then walking speed at full throttle. They run cool as a cucumber. and the control is immaculate due to all the torque from the powerful motor, higher voltage and gear reduction.

But not everyone wants that much torque, some people like the motor to bog down.

Unless you need more power then that setup (battery $20, motor $20, esc #30, in the USA) I wouldn't really recommend paying the extra for brushless. because its a huge jump in price.

And depending on your choices you could get a brushed setup for 3x the price that makes less power pretty easily, just because you chose a 2s battery.

I am not sure why a 3s or 4s would have so much more cost the the 2s battery. You pretty much pay by weight here. A 4s 500mah battery has the same power as a 2s 1000mah battery. but the power is much more accessible in the 4s pack and creates less heat and more power in the car.

If you chose to use the power it will die faster however. But depending on your driving it can also last longer. because your not wasting as much into heat.

A brushed motor has a rpm limit of closer to 37,000rpm, brushless motor go 50,000rpm+ no problem. You need a 6000kv motor to do that on 2s and it will probably over heat anyways. A 6s 2000kv setup stays pretty cool and goes just as fast.

The 2s battery is just a crutch. But if your stuck with it...
I would build a battery from used laptop batteries before settling for 2s.
But again just an opinion based on US prices.

I’m in the US, just in Hawaii so shipping for pretty much anything is high, especially HazMat. Thanks for that write up, I never knew running 2S could do that. RPP has 3S batteries for $20 a pop and shipping is only $15 for some reason. I’m getting brushless for speed, not torque. It’s going to be a trail truck/light crawler, so not looking for crazy low speed control.

The battery I’m looking at is a 3S 2200mah 20C battery, but on the Mamba X spec sheet, it says a 30C for a battery. Will it hurt if go under that? I would like to get 3-4 smaller 3S batteries rather than 1 bigger battery, I think? Lol, I’m no expert on what batteries would best suit me.

I think at this point, Im not going to go brushless until I have a few 3S batteries.


_________________
https://www.instagram.com/island_crawlaz/

79 F150 SCX10 ii
TRXWalker

[Deerhurst]

Originally Posted by ScaleLifeNewbie

I’m in the US, just in Hawaii so shipping for pretty much anything is high, especially HazMat. Thanks for that write up, I never knew running 2S could do that. RPP has 3S batteries for $20 a pop and shipping is only $15 for some reason. I’m getting brushless for speed, not torque. It’s going to be a trail truck/light crawler, so not looking for crazy low speed control.

The battery I’m looking at is a 3S 2200mah 20C battery, but on the Mamba X spec sheet, it says a 30C for a battery. Will it hurt if go under that? I would like to get 3-4 smaller 3S batteries rather than 1 bigger battery, I think? Lol, I’m no expert on what batteries would best suit me.

I think at this point, Im not going to go brushless until I have a few 3S batteries.


_________________
https://www.instagram.com/island_crawlaz/

79 F150 SCX10 ii
TRXWalker

Watts is watts. The motor will suck up so many watts of energy so W=IV. Current must go up to make up for lower voltage.

I see no harm in going brushless without 3s packs. If you are not constantly under 100% load, WOT with the motor bogging you probably will never have an issue running 2s on a motor. I've only ever burned up a motor on 3s but that was a 70MPH brushless traxxas slash. Crawlers and trial trucks are geared so low it takes very little power to move them.

That said, I love the nuttyness of 4s in a crawler and run ESCs capable for 4s and 6s. The torque is nuts.

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