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-   -   Hard vs Standard plastic? (http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/element-rc-1-10-enduro-trail-truck-sendero/610200-hard-vs-standard-plastic.html)

Dragin 07-12-2019 02:23 AM

Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
I can't seem to find an answer anywhere. Why does Element offer a hard plastic option for most of the parts? Is there a performance gain or is it just looks?


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soze 07-12-2019 02:28 AM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
The hard parts are stiffer and less flexible. It adds more rigidity to the chassis.

mikemcE 07-12-2019 05:41 AM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
Yep, It comes from Associatedís racing heritage, stronger composite than stock which allows less deflection. Not sure yet if we Crawler types need it


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B-MOW71 07-12-2019 06:14 AM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
I heard that it will slide over the rocks better too!

Dragin 07-13-2019 04:10 AM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
So that is pretty much what Iíve heard from most but it sure would be nice to get the direct answer from Element. Seems weird to offer an upgrade with any real description or reason why.

Iíve even contacted Element and they donít have an answer lol.

mikemcE 07-13-2019 07:50 AM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
Brad Geck said its the normal option for Associated. They have the molds, add a different composite for those that want it.
I think the trans is a good example of Associatedís let the customer decide. Skid comes predrilled to flip the trans, kit is supplied with the reversing shaft to flip the whole thing. John Schultzís testing revealed zero performance gain with it, BUT many of us need to ďfix thingsĒ


Hang up and Drive

HumboldtEF 07-13-2019 11:57 AM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragin (Post 5949840)
So that is pretty much what I’ve heard from most but it sure would be nice to get the direct answer from Element. Seems weird to offer an upgrade with any real description or reason why.

I’ve even contacted Element and they don’t have an answer lol.


Well if you dont hear back from Element RC let me just pile on to add thats exactly what I heard with my own 2 ear holes at PLBTF when the truck was first revealed.

Its lighter stiffer material and should slide better on the rocks but has the potential to crack/break easier as its more brittle and less flexible than the stock plastic. They followed up saying "its for the comp guys"

RABIDFOX 07-13-2019 03:27 PM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
Associated has a long history of offering the ďhardĒ stuff. Graphite is what they use but I do not think it will be better sliding over rocks. I have chewed up my fair share of suspension arms and chassis in my racing days and I can tell you the stuff wears just like the common plastics. As to brittle, well yes depending upon abuse and fail points. Less flex in a racing situation is far different than in crawling or trail work.

punkindrublik 07-13-2019 09:52 PM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
Geez, now I don't know what to do with my cart full of hard parts... :shock:

carpetfuzz17 07-14-2019 02:00 AM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by punkindrublik (Post 5949982)
Geez, now I don't know what to do with my cart full of hard parts... :shock:


I say order the parts you should have no issues "thumbsup"

Yes the "hard" plastic is slightly more brittle but you must also take into account that these same "hard" plastics are being used on race vehicles. The speeds that they are seeing is much greater than any crawler will see. When you have suspension arms hanging off all 4 corners of a chassis and taking a tumble at high speed into the pipes something is going to give.

I race indoor off road carpet. I use as much of the "hard" plastic as possible. Have broken my share of arms but it doesn't stop me from putting on another "hard" arm.

Just my 2 cents

Dragin 07-17-2019 02:16 AM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
Can anyone that has both the hard and regular weigh them to see the difference? Iím hoping it might be of use with balancing the weight on the truck.

stormridersp 07-17-2019 02:42 AM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by carpetfuzz17 (Post 5950035)
I say order the parts you should have no issues "thumbsup"

Yes the "hard" plastic is slightly more brittle but you must also take into account that these same "hard" plastics are being used on race vehicles. The speeds that they are seeing is much greater than any crawler will see. When you have suspension arms hanging off all 4 corners of a chassis and taking a tumble at high speed into the pipes something is going to give.

Just my 2 cents


I bet the impacts that my 10lbs Gelande 2 suffers on the trail quite so often can be much stronger than any buggy racing crashes. Seriously. Rolling down a 10ft climb with a 10lbs rc is 'eyes watering' and yet, it always comes out unscathed somehow.



The point is, how much weight can it takes and survive and how much weight is actually needed. What that means is that in the case of the Gelande 2, its all metal, everything, so its base weight is quite heavy already, then adding all the necessary weights to be competitive in order to bring the Cg lower, only makes it even heavier. On the other hand, the Enduro seems quite light on its base form, so there is only so much that is needed to make it competitive. Now, on this level, which one will be more bulletproof, the light and brittle, the heavy and metal is the million dollar question. Me, i'd say that the light and brittle is more prone to life changing injuries, while the heavy and metal is more prone to peripheral parts damage.

coffeeaddict17 07-17-2019 05:26 AM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
From my understanding, its offered just to give us options. I used the hard front shock hoops/ panhard mount. The stock plastic had some flex at the panhard when I would get into heavy rocks, and mess with my steering slightly. Fixed my steering issue. I think it all just comes down to personal preference/ tuning desires. They already have the material for their more race oriented vehicles, so why not cross it over to the crawler line?

HumboldtEF 07-17-2019 08:41 PM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragin (Post 5950631)
Can anyone that has both the hard and regular weigh them to see the difference? Iím hoping it might be of use with balancing the weight on the truck.


I weighed a few items and they were actually a tiny bit heavier, super close but heavier. I was a bit disappointed but I wonder if their hard racing parts are done different, maybe they're removing material thinning them out etc?

micro racer 07-17-2019 09:20 PM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HumboldtEF (Post 5950842)
I weighed a few items and they were actually a tiny bit heavier, super close but heavier. I was a bit disappointed but I wonder if their hard racing parts are done different, maybe they're removing material thinning them out etc?

When I used to race spec buggy, there was never really any mention of the hard parts being heavier. They looked exactly the same as the "soft" to the extent that AE made them a different color on the 5-series onwards, as the two compounds looked identical on my B4.2 FT. At any rate, the parts most often changed to the hard compound were arms and chassis plates/braces, so the weight would be in a the best location regardless.

Quick note to Stormrider: technically, velocity has a much greater effect on kinetic energy than mass so buggy crashes should be higher energy, though some napkin-math says that they're actually almost equivalent for real-world applications.

HumboldtEF 07-18-2019 04:53 PM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
Well maybe we've been off base about these hard plastics the whole time. I really dont see any mention of it being lighter, I also dont see any mention of it being more brittle, in fact I see the opposite on one listing which says:
"The hard composite material offers both higher stiffness and added durability. It also allows for greater race precision on high traction surfaces or in higher ambient temperatures."

This was in the description of these A-arms
https://www.amainhobbies.com/team-as...c71009/p423515

Lashlee 07-19-2019 07:46 AM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
I finally got my hard parts, and will be working on it this weekend.

Cesco 10-30-2019 05:38 AM

Re: Hard vs Standard plastic?
 
I've been running my Enduro without and now with the hard parts. Chassis frames are definatly stiffer and more rigid, as is all of the truck. Panhard mount is much better in the hard plastic.


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