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Thread: Gatekeeper vs Capra

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Old 11-08-2020, 04:21 PM   #1
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Default Gatekeeper vs Capra

Seems a few have been asking about this comparison. I finished building my Gatekeeper kits today and got a bit of runtime, so here's some early comparison notes:

Gatekeeper is a really good looking rig. It looks better than the Capra in my opinion overall. However there are a couple of visual oddities. First the front "shark nose" has a large empty space behind the bumper and in front of the servo/ESC mount. The center part of the car doesn't seem balanced, as the rear is longer from middle of door to rear axle vs to the front. On the Capra, I'm not a fan of the small front "headlights" area.

Visually the Gatekeeper looks like it has a much narrower track than it does. The width of the cage area on the Gatekeeper is ~152mm, while it is ~133mm on the Capra. Combined with the 23mm wider track on the Capra, the Gatekeeper looks quite narrow on track, as the body is wider. I'm running 4.19 tires on the Gatekeeper and 4.75 on the Capra, which is about 7mm more axle height, but the Capra is 11mm taller as it sits.

With the same battery in both rigs, the Gatekeeper is 94 grams heavier (I have portal weights on the Capra and an external BEC with a Holmes brushed ESC/Crawlmaster combo). Weight balance is about 59.5% forward on the Gatekeeper vs 57% on the Capra. CG height is 1.5mm higher on the Capra even with the 7mm advantage to axle height from the smaller tires on the Gatekeeper, showing just how top heavy the Gatekeeper is relative.

Handling at speed is really nice for the Gatekeeper. I'm running a Castle Slate 2850KV with a Mamba X ESC with 17t pinion and 4.19 tires. Even with a relatively narrow track, I can only make it rollover on pavement if I'm at full throttle and full deflection steering. It's quite balanced and feels more like a basher than a locked axle crawler base. The Capra on the other hand rolls quite easily on pavement and is more squirrely overall. On dirt, it's not much different as the Gatekeeper is definitely better handling than the Capra. Considering my motor setup is faster on the Gatekeeper than the Capra it further highlights just how good the handling on the Gatekeeper is relatively.

Crawling with the Gatekeeper is not as good as the Capra. I still want to try the Gatekeeper with the same tires as the Capra to confirm, but articulation, axle height and front bumper extending far forward of tires on the Gatekeeper limit it vs the Capra. On my course at home, some obstacles that are easy on the Capra were a challenge on the Gatekeeper. The axle height meant I really had to pick a line carefully to avoid getting hung up. The biggest hangup for me was the front bumper of the Gatekeeper felt like it got caught everywhere. I think bigger tires can mitigate this a bit as well as help the axle getting caught on rocks. It is much lighter than my SCX10.3 and was able to do a few lines easily that are hard on that rig. This could also have been helped by the longer wheelbase as it's a steep line.

Overall, I'm really pleased with the Gatekeeper, it fits into a good slot for me and I look forward to learning the rig some more and trying out a few different tire combos to see overall balance.
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Old 11-08-2020, 05:32 PM   #2
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

I appreciate you taking the time to share your real world experience.

What do you think would be the tallest tire to fit the Gatekeeper? Do you think 2.2's would fit?
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Old 11-09-2020, 07:14 AM   #3
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

I added a 4.75 tire to the Gatekeeper front on the attached image. Nothing rubs above front or rear, but on full lock at full compression, the 4.75 is closer to rubbing the inner fender with 350 hubs with maybe 4mm clearance. With the 4.19 tires and 350 hubs full lock and full compression, there are about 9mm of clearance.

To go taller than 4.75 and not rub on full lock, you'd need to space the wheels out further. I don't have a set of 2.2s to test, but with typical 5.5" tires, you'd probably need at least a 600 hub to clear.
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Old 11-09-2020, 07:33 AM   #4
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

Couple comparison shots with 4.75 Hyrax on both rigs. Pretty clear how the wider body and narrower track on the Gatekeeper gives it a different stance than the Capra.
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Old 11-09-2020, 07:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

Left to right: 4.19 Mud Terrain on Gatekeeper, 4.75 Hyrax Gatekeeper, 4.75 Hyrax Capra
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Old 11-09-2020, 09:56 AM   #6
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

Just ran the Gatekeeper back to back with the Capra both running 4.75" Hyrax. The Gatekeeper does better with the 4.75 vs 4.19 as expected, but still not up to the capability of the Capra.

Approach to obstacles is a big difference as evidenced by these two comparison shots:




The longer wheelbase and rear suspension affects breakover angle and articulation. Here's the Capra vs Gatekeeper on a twisting obstacle. The Capra has all tires on the ground, while the Gatekeeper has the left rear in the air:




On a steep descent, the longer wheelbase and articulation limits plus front weight bias show easily here:



For pure performance rock crawling, the Capra can get thru more stuff easier than the Gatekeeper. The Capra will also do better in sidehilling with the wider track and lower CG. A rock wall I use was easier with the Gatekeeper with 4.75 vs 4.19, but still struggled, while the Capra made easy work of it. As the wall is at most the width of the Capra and often narrower than the Gatekeeper, the portals really helped clearing each rock space. The Gatekeeper kept dragging on them (better with 4.75 than 4.19, but still behind Capra). The Capra has more steering turn and thus is a much smaller turning radius (even without the dig) than the Gatekeeper.

For rock racing/bashing, the 4.75 tires bump up wheel speed quite a bit over the 4.19 with the Gatekeeper. It's a bit more tippy with the taller tires, but still much more composed than the Capra.

The Gatekeeper is a better all around vehicle. It's pretty good crawler, nice rock racer and not a bad basher. The Capra is a great crawler, lousy rock racer & basher.
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Old 11-09-2020, 11:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

The Gate Keeper is more aesthetically pleasing but I can see how the Capra could be a better performer. But, they each look to have advantages in certain terrain/obstacles that the other does not.
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Old 11-17-2020, 07:00 PM   #8
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

This thread just makes me want both.
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Old 11-18-2020, 06:48 AM   #9
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

I've had both as well and reiterate what nielsm is saying.

But I think the GK was pushed more toward the rock racer and less toward the rock crawler scene. But with that said it's still to narrow to really take a turn with any speed.

I also prefer the look of the GK but the drop nose is a big limiting factor. As is the very high ride height.
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Old 11-18-2020, 07:36 AM   #10
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

Can you take the "nose" off the GateKeeper?

I had issues with getting my Enudro to perform but I got them all lined out now and really like it. I have comped with Capra and they just seem big and awkward. Even with the issues I had with the Enduro it was far more maneuverable and in control.

I know many seem to like the sway bars but at low speeds and crawling do you think they help or hinder performance?
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Old 11-18-2020, 07:49 AM   #11
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOguy View Post
Can you take the "nose" off the GateKeeper?

I had issues with getting my Enudro to perform but I got them all lined out now and really like it. I have comped with Capra and they just seem big and awkward. Even with the issues I had with the Enduro it was far more maneuverable and in control.

I know many seem to like the sway bars but at low speeds and crawling do you think they help or hinder performance?
I've raised 2 other element chassis nose's but with the GK having the plastic cage right there it's going to be tough to make it look right and still maintain structure.
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Old 11-11-2021, 03:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

I think this looks like it'd make a great mud truck !
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Old 11-11-2021, 04:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

Roughly a year since my first post on the Gatekeeper, I’ve since ripped off the cage and replaced it with the Ecto body this week. It was too tall and narrow with the stock cage to be a good rock bouncer and it wasn’t as good as a crawler.

Even with the roll bar on the Ecto body, the rig is 312 grams lighter than with the Gatekeeper cage. The CG height dropped by about 26mm. I don’t have an interior in the Ecto body yet, but do on the Gatekeeper. I also had a small proline light on the Gatekeeper nose, so the weights and CG will change once I do add an interior.

A couple of quick tests showed it was much better climbing… far less likely to tilt backwards and sidehilling was improved. The portals and articulation on the Capra are still advantages, but the new “Ecto” Gatekeeper is about 16mm lower CG than my Capra.

I imagine with the sales now going on the Gatekeeper, Element is likely to discontinue the kit soon and focus on the Ecto.


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Old 11-11-2021, 04:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

Quote:
Originally Posted by nielsm View Post
Roughly a year since my first post on the Gatekeeper, I’ve since ripped off the cage and replaced it with the Ecto body this week. It was too tall and narrow with the stock cage to be a good rock bouncer and it wasn’t as good as a crawler.

Even with the roll bar on the Ecto body, the rig is 312 grams lighter than with the Gatekeeper cage. The CG height dropped by about 26mm. I don’t have an interior in the Ecto body yet, but do on the Gatekeeper. I also had a small proline light on the Gatekeeper nose, so the weights and CG will change once I do add an interior.

A couple of quick tests showed it was much better climbing… far less likely to tilt backwards and sidehilling was improved. The portals and articulation on the Capra are still advantages, but the new “Ecto” Gatekeeper is about 16mm lower CG than my Capra.

I imagine with the sales now going on the Gatekeeper, Element is likely to discontinue the kit soon and focus on the Ecto.


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I couldn't pass up the $240 Gatekeeper sale... saw the wheelbase matched this body and ordered both!

https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m334...2qcQUgK-eLWBvY
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Old 11-11-2021, 04:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRED805 View Post
I couldn't pass up the $240 Gatekeeper sale... saw the wheelbase matched this body and ordered both!

https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m334...2qcQUgK-eLWBvY
Looks like it will be a nice build. The Gatekeeper kit is a good value at $240, especially compared to the builders kit. You might need some extra body mounts as the GK kit only has 2 small posts in the rear as the front pivots from the bumper.
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Old 11-11-2021, 05:42 PM   #16
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

Quote:
Originally Posted by nielsm View Post
Looks like it will be a nice build. The Gatekeeper kit is a good value at $240, especially compared to the builders kit. You might need some extra body mounts as the GK kit only has 2 small posts in the rear as the front pivots from the bumper.
I'll probably beat it up as a gatekeeper for a while, then figure out how to put that fragile looking body on it.

Is there anything that should be replaced on the gatekeeper right away, or upgrades I should look into?

Thanks!
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Old 11-11-2021, 06:06 PM   #17
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

The really nice bit about the gatekeeper kit is it has all the hard plastics, the better panhard and adjustable shock towers.

The downside is the electronics trays are very narrow to accommodate the cage limiting the what you can mount there. But they are also the trailing arm mount, so it is hard to swap them for the sendero ones. I have a Mamba X in mine and it is too wide to fit on the electronics side trays, so it has to be next to the servo. The kit comes with a blank to accommodate that.

I used a Mamba X as I planned more of a rock racer. With lower current demands as a crawler I might be able to switch to a Micro X which should fit on the side rail and enable me to mount a servo winch next to the steering servo.
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Old 11-11-2021, 06:09 PM   #18
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

I too fell for the $240 gatekeeper kit sale.

Other than the body swap, how's the Enduro been holding up for you? Any parts worn out or broken?
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Old 11-11-2021, 06:24 PM   #19
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

Two parts broke on me.

The first was last winter when I cracked a front axle housing in the cold. Can’t really blame that as a fault of the kit… I was driving it like a rock racer in freezing temperatures and hit a rock at full tilt. Any plastic is more brittle when it is cold.

The second was the pivot for the Gatekeeper cage which attaches in the normal bumper end. This is the most forward part of the truck and so often hits rocks as you start a climb. At the time that part was only available with a full cage, so I had to buy one of those. They’ve since released just the pivot piece and say they have improved its strength.

Associated has always done great shocks and the GK shocks are the same. Super smooth and compliant. Far better than stock shocks on my Axial rigs. In fact, as I was reviewing other tweaks I could make to the rig today, the shocks are still just as smooth as when I built them a year ago. Reminds me of the shocks on my original gold pan RC10 I built back in the 80s. Associated has done them well forever.


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Old 11-12-2021, 05:31 AM   #20
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Default Re: Gatekeeper vs Capra

Not a bad casualty list. I stock Axial and Traxxas housings because I've broken a few doing foolish things. Sounds like I should pick up a pair of housings.

I was wondering about the front most crossmember. One of my few complaints with the gk is the lack of a 90* approach angle, and the crossmember suffers because of it. I may end up stretching the wheelbase a bit, or trimming back and remounting the cage.
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