My Enduro / LC70 build thread (with bonus steering issue)

[mash914]

Originally Posted by HumboldtEF

Sorry if I missed this but have you adjusted the steering endpoints?

Another factor is the angle of the horn itself, the closer the drag link is to parallel with the axle the less steering its able to do. I've had a number of rigs where the servo is off center to on side when the wheels are straight, this always results in one side requiring more throw than the other and even then it has less leverage due to it getting close to straightening out (the servo horn angle). Adjusting the drag link length so the horn is centered when the wheels are centered will alleviate this but has the potential to add some bumpsteer. But I'd say its worth risking a tiny bit of bumpsteer for better steering.
One thing I'll do to center the servo horn (so the wheels are centered too) is to trim the drag link rod ends or use shorter rod ends.

EDIT: this isnt really related but I'd recommend taking out the rubber servo dampeners that are used to mount it. I can see your servo moving around a bit as you steer. These are meant to extend the life of a servo by isolating it from vibrations but with crawlers being so slow I dont think is an issue worth worrying about. I never use them and the majority of us crawler guys dont either.

EDIT 2: I also see you have the drag link on the wheel side mounted on top of the metal bracket when it should be mounted from below. see page 10 gate 2 https://img2.associatedelectrics.com...-Kit-40102.pdf

Originally Posted by twade984

I have two suggestions, mount the drag link to the underside of the steering arm where it’s supposed to be, or remove the spacer at the horn side at least. Flattening the drag link angle essentially lengthens it, which would definitely impact steering angle to the left.

Also make sure the panhard mount isn’t causing interference sooner than the stock mount would.

And, make the sure the drag link is mounted to the long side of the steering arm. There is a long snd short side of the rh steering arm.

You guys had it!!! I moved the link underneath and now the left and right turning circles are within a few inches of each other. This is great.



Thanks

[twade984]

Glad you got it handled! like others have said, the steering is actually quite nice on these out of the box. There are a few little oddities as far as how they designed it (imo), but after trying different things out, i see they obviously have everything as is for a reason.

it's also surprising how much minor changes in link lengths etc can make big changes in how steering/suspension work. I usually only find these things out after I've mucked it up.

[mash914]

Originally Posted by twade984

Glad you got it handled! like others have said, the steering is actually quite nice on these out of the box. There are a few little oddities as far as how they designed it (imo), but after trying different things out, i see they obviously have everything as is for a reason.

it's also surprising how much minor changes in link lengths etc can make big changes in how steering/suspension work. I usually only find these things out after I've mucked it up.

Lol, yep. Now I just need to take the whole thing apart so I can put the new skid and links in. I'm sure I'll get it back together right

[HumboldtEF]

Originally Posted by twade984

.

it's also surprising how much minor changes in link lengths etc can make big changes in how steering/suspension work. I usually only find these things out after I've mucked it up.

Exactly! I had an eye opening bonehead moment when I did the same thing plus mounting the servo above the mount instead of below. I glanced at the directions and was like I know what I'm doing its just a servo


Compressing the suspension on one side made for an unacceptable amount of bumpsteer. The geometry barely changed but the effects were huge!

[mash914]

Originally Posted by HumboldtEF

Exactly! I had an eye opening bonehead moment when I did the same thing plus mounting the servo above the mount instead of below. I glanced at the directions and was like I know what I'm doing its just a servo


Compressing the suspension on one side made for an unacceptable amount of bumpsteer. The geometry barely changed but the effects were huge!

I'll admit to also mounting the servo up top at first .The crummy bit was, when I attempted to remedy it, the servo and the wires wouldn't fit through the hole in the mount. So I had to actually disassemble the servo to install it without damaging the wires. That's one of the reasons the Holmes Hobbies servo hasn't been installed yet.

[smog]

It sounds like you solved your steering issue? I was building my Gatekeeper front axle this evening and was reminded of your thread. Is the mount on your steering knuckle configured like this? If it is on backwards the steering link will be to close to the panhard bar. You need the long end of this mount towards the front of the vehicle, as in this pic

[mash914]

Originally Posted by smog

It sounds like you solved your steering issue? I was building my Gatekeeper front axle this evening and was reminded of your thread. Is the mount on your steering knuckle configured like this? If it is on backwards the steering link will be to close to the panhard bar. You need the long end of this mount towards the front of the vehicle, as in this pic

Just checked - yep, it's on the right way. Now that I have the drag link underneath the mount, everything is right where it needs to be.
Thanks for thought

[mash914]

I decided I wanted to take some measurements of performance before I put a bunch of new parts into they chassis and set it up with the lower ride height (both for looks and to help bring some of the added hardbody weight a bit lower).

I started with some uphill and side hill incline tests. I had to borrow my wife's yoga mat to find something that could provide enough traction to get the vehicle to tip backwards. I was pretty shocked to find out that without the body, my enduro will perfectly happily climb a 60 degree from horizontal uphill before it starts to tip backward - crazy!

At this point, the only thing done to it is the boom racing wheels, the ~4.5" tires and the shorter Gmade shocks. I raised them all of the way to get it close to stock ride height.
I have a couple of pieces still coming in the mail, and the plan was to do everything at once, but there's a part of me that kind of wants to change one thing at a time and keep testing for improvements. The only reason I may not do that is 1. I'm guessing some of these things are going to be pretty subtle, and 2. That's a lot of work I love working on it, but I'm getting impatient to drive it.

[smog]

Nice! Yeah this platform will definitely perform. It sounds to me like you have the right idea for eeking it all out of there. I too have modifications in mind I could make to lower my COG. This rig has already cut some lines none of my older crawlers have. It feels rewarding.

Glad to hear you got the steering interference worked out. I had a feeling it was a small assembly issue. As I was building mine, I was reminded of how easy it would be for a small mistake to screw up the clearances.

look forward to the rest of your build

[mash914]

Originally Posted by smog

Nice! Yeah this platform will definitely perform. It sounds to me like you have the right idea for eeking it all out of there. I too have modifications in mind I could make to lower my COG. This rig has already cut some lines none of my older crawlers have. It feels rewarding.

Glad to hear you got the steering interference worked out. I had a feeling it was a small assembly issue. As I was building mine, I was reminded of how easy it would be for a small mistake to screw up the clearances.

look forward to the rest of your build

Thanks, I'm glad too.
Today I finally got the rest of the chassis parts so it's time for the Thanksgiving "break" full disassembly and rebuild to begin. Gotta start the truck before the whiskey I don't want to put the drag link on the wrong side again.

Sometimes it's fun to help keep the economy going

[twade984]

Nice collection of parts! I’ve been eyeing that bow house skid for a while. Let me know what you think of it.

[mash914]

Bad news - as I started taking everything apart my relatively affordable 2mm driver started slipping. I tried going slowly, but I know if I keep going I'm going to strip something, especially with the harder plastic parts. Sadly now I have to wait a couple of days until my LHS opens up so I can buy a new driver.

[mash914]

Got my new wrench and started working tonight. I ran into an issue - I bought the SSD brass steering knuckles and axles. I had two problems. One I was able to take care of, one I haven't yet. I have a couple of ideas but thought I'd check with you guys to get some advice.
The first issue was the one of the driveshafts had a slight deformation where the wheel hex pin hole was drilled - none of the bearings would slide over it. I tried some sanding in case it was a burr, but the removal of a bit of the coating revealed two high spots in the shaft. I bit of gentle persuasion with some needle-nose and everything was fine.
The second problem I haven't solved yet. The inner bearings that came with my enduro that I'm supposed to be able to reuse(?) absolutely will not fit into these knuckles. I know better than to try too hard to force them in. At this point I guess I have a couple of options:
1. Try to figure out how to reduce the OD of the outer race of the bearings or the ID of the housing. Without access to any decent machining equipment I'd be doing this with a dremel or a drill
2. Try to find a set of bearings that are ever so slightly smaller that could fit. I don't know if this is a thing.
3. Contact SSD - I have had some pretty good luck with their customer service, but I'm not sure what they'd do. The fact that both don't fit leads me to believe a replacement set wouldn't be any different.
4. Leave them out I put everything together without them for tonight while I consider my options, but I know that's not a real solution.


Thoughts?

[Phyro]

I know mine where a bit tight, but slipped in. If the other shaft doesn’t have any high spots, you could slip the bearing on the shaft before attempting to slot the bearing and shaft together.

Otherwise, I would see if there is any coating on the ID and sand there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mash914]

Originally Posted by Phyro

I know mine where a bit tight, but slipped in. If the other shaft doesn’t have any high spots, you could slip the bearing on the shaft before attempting to slot the bearing and shaft together.

Otherwise, I would see if there is any coating on the ID and sand there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The inner bearing has a larger ID that passed over the high spot. I was able to gently deform it a bit. I'm guessing it was just a little push when the hole got drilled.
As to the larger inner bearing, I think you're right. I may just take a flapper wheel with my dremel and try to open it up a bit

[mash914]

One thing I will say is the quality of the knuckles and bearing seems really nice. And the fact that I can pivot the knuckles to their max travel and the axles still move smoothly is promising for a tight steering radius.

Unfortunately there was a labeling error at AMain and the sent me the wrong servo / bumper mount. They sent me a replacement right away, so that's cool, but I'll have to wait a few more days to finish up.

Good thing I'm a super patient person

[mash914]

I got some time this week to install most of the new parts, and things went pretty smoothly.
First up was the Bowhouse skid. The dimensions were perfect and it included all of the necessary hardware. For some reason I was a bit worried about stripping the plastic, but I didn't need to be because everything snugged up nice and tight. The surface finish looks a bit rougher than stock, but strangely it feels smoother and it's nice and clean – I really like it (forgot to take pictures of it before install - sorry).


Next up, the hard plastic axle housings are exactly what you'd expect – really stiff and a perfect fit. Seemed like $16 pretty well spent. Same for the hard chassis pieces. I think I spent about $6 more for these.

[mash914]

Continuing with the axles, I dremeled a tiny bit of the ID of the SSD hub out and the bearings slid right in, nice and snug. Combined with the SSD axles shafts, I now have really nice, no-bind, steering angles. Additionaly, not sure if it was these, the hard axle housings, or both combined, but I had a bit of negative camber before that I no longer have, which is a nice bonus.

[mash914]

The Samix shock towers are really nicely made. I'm not normally one for flashy, but the way these look in grey with the red from the shocks makes me wish they were a little more exposed than they will be with the body on. The included hardware was nice, and the additional shock mount locations (which is really why I bought them) will help me get everything where I want it. I realize the shocks are on different directions, btw, I was just trying to decide which way I prefer.

[mash914]

The Club5 high clearance links are finished beautifully, and the quality overall is really nice. The bends are clean and even. The only 'issue' I had was that their lengths are just a bit uneven. Not within a pair (like the lower rear links), but throughout the whole group. What I mean is that to get them to match with the factory dimensions, sometimes you need to really snug up the end links, and sometimes you have to back off a bit. Not a huge deal, but the tie rod had to be backed off about 2.5mm to get the front wheels straight. Overall I'm pretty happy with them though. Plus, check out that clearance!





Finally, the Samix front servo mount. I'd read that once mounted I would need a different length drag link and I did. I wanted to get everything together so that I could measure. I ended up needing a link with an 85mm center to center distance. Factory is about 93. Because the panhard is a tick over 100, I realize I'm going the wrong direction and could introduce some bump steer, but it's something I want to try – if it's bad I'll figure something else out. The nice thing is, it opened up all of that space where the servo currently sits, so I'm planning to work out how to move the electronics up there both to push the weight forward and also to make some room for the eventual interior.


Still have some nice range with everything put together. No binding anywhere, and the shocks bottom out on their bump stops just before anything else hits.