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Old 09-03-2012, 09:05 PM   #1
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Default Who has the lightest Berg

I am not talking no wheels, no battery, no knuckle weights. A true ready to comp car. I am ready to start my Berg Rebirth. And I am thinking 3lbs,8oz on the rocks. The ducks will be barking on this one.
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

I know I don't but I'm still shocked how much lighter it's gotten in the last couple months..ready to compete with SLW's, Rovers, and 3.5oz per front corner mine sits at 4.3lbs
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

It seems like everyone was building stronger and stronger. Then they got heavier, and then we needed stronger again. Now as they get lighter, the cars will survive bumps, binds, and falls that they would have needed to weigh 10lbs to survive. I always like my Berg at right at 6lbs. It was point and shoot. When i got closer to 5 it was still OK, but it required a bit more thought. I really think they need to get down well below 4 to become point and shoot again. But that is with some tuning once you get down there.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

Yeah I agree completely with that...the 6lb range for a Berg was just about perfect. I just saw Harvo post tonight that he has his Berg ready to go at 4lbs and says he still has several areas to shed weight from...
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Old 09-03-2012, 11:16 PM   #5
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

I will be on the quest for a 3 lb berg here very soon

And before you call b.s.......

Remember when a 5.5 lb super was unheard of?

I am well below that now too
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:11 AM   #6
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

The heaviest I run mine is 4lb 4oz with 9oz of knuckle weight. 3lb 14oz is the lightest I have run it.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:30 AM   #7
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

Would it not make more since to ask weight with out tire, wheels, battery, and knuckle weight. Those are all easily adjustable. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:21 AM   #8
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

So what do you guys feel is the point of losing traction with current foam and tire technology, I see rigs in the low 4lb range that appear to not have enough weight to hold traction on the tires.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:42 AM   #9
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

Quote:
Originally Posted by krawlfreak View Post
I will be on the quest for a 3 lb berg here very soon

And before you call b.s.......

Remember when a 5.5 lb super was unheard of?

I am well below that now too
i thought you didnt know what a berg was either way, im looking forward to that build tho

Last edited by GEARSCIENCE; 09-04-2012 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:05 AM   #10
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

Traction is as much about setup as tires and foams. Just because we couldn't get traction last year at 4 pounds doesn't mean we can't this year or next. Or 3 pounds, etc...

It's very interesting watching and being involved while the lightweight kick is going. A few years back people told me skewed arms didn't have enough drag without engaging hold, when almost all rigs were 6.5 pounds plus. A few years back five slot arms didn't have enough punch for many people. Fast forward to rigs that are so light, and now the old problems aren't even problems and we can push other areas of development like bettering startup and getting ESCs that are purpose build for MOA trucks. It really breathed life back into my though process on what "is" and "isn't" appropriate for my little part of the hobby, many old ideas and drawings I had shelved could be pulled back out and tried again.


Think we will see 3 pound rigs that perform? I can do my part, we will have a new ESC in about 2 months that will be our lightest brushed version yet- should hit right at 15 grams each (maybe as light as 10 depending on FETs available) before adding a cap and wires. Then people can tune the wire and cap size to their needs.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:16 AM   #11
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

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Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes View Post
I can do my part, we will have a new ESC in about 2 months that will be our lightest brushed version yet- should hit right at 15 grams each (maybe as light as 10 depending on FETs available)
Interesting
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:24 AM   #12
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes View Post
Traction is as much about setup as tires and foams. Just because we couldn't get traction last year at 4 pounds doesn't mean we can't this year or next. Or 3 pounds, etc...

It's very interesting watching and being involved while the lightweight kick is going. A few years back people told me skewed arms didn't have enough drag without engaging hold, when almost all rigs were 6.5 pounds plus. A few years back five slot arms didn't have enough punch for many people. Fast forward to rigs that are so light, and now the old problems aren't even problems and we can push other areas of development like bettering startup and getting ESCs that are purpose build for MOA trucks. It really breathed life back into my though process on what "is" and "isn't" appropriate for my little part of the hobby, many old ideas and drawings I had shelved could be pulled back out and tried again.


Think we will see 3 pound rigs that perform? I can do my part, we will have a new ESC in about 2 months that will be our lightest brushed version yet- should hit right at 15 grams each (maybe as light as 10 depending on FETs available) before adding a cap and wires. Then people can tune the wire and cap size to their needs.
anything new you come up with i would be happy to test i'll knock the dust off em
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:35 AM   #13
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRobHolmes View Post
I can do my part, we will have a new ESC in about 2 months that will be our lightest brushed version yet- should hit right at 15 grams each (maybe as light as 10 depending on FETs available) before adding a cap and wires. Then people can tune the wire and cap size to their needs.
Such a tease. LOL. So I should hold off on de-casing my FXR's and getting them smashed. Hmmmmm.

I agree with you also on the 3lb rig that can perform. Just remember, it takes a lot less effort and traction to pull 3lbs up an incline, or a rock, than a 6lb rig.

Ultimately it comes down to driver preference and what you are comfortable with. Me, I might be trying weight watchers...
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:40 AM   #14
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEARSCIENCE View Post
i thought you didnt know what a berg was either way, im looking forward to that build tho
I guess I should say bergish.... A standard berg would have no chance I hell of being that light
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbj069 View Post
So what do you guys feel is the point of losing traction with current foam and tire technology, I see rigs in the low 4lb range that appear to not have enough weight to hold traction on the tires.
Most are already on the verge of being to light for the current foam technology. There are other areas that are going to have to be looked at to make them perform but that is something we are already working on.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:57 AM   #15
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

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Originally Posted by krawlfreak View Post
I guess I should say bergish.... A standard berg would have no chance I hell of being that light


Most are already on the verge of being to light for the current foam technology. There are other areas that are going to have to be looked at to make them perform but that is something we are already working on.
I am close to being in that boat, rig is awesome but I find myself looking at old foams to increase the current contact patch of the tires, with the JRH /brood motor technology rapidly advancing and the weights decreasing it's real easy to slip a tire where I need traction, it's a good feeling though!!
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:03 AM   #16
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

We could always add in another ounce or two and put a fan on top of the rig to push it down on the rocks
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:05 AM   #17
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

A good question to ask is at what point do you get diminishing returns on weight loss.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:42 AM   #18
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

I would say there is always a point of diminishing returns with "current" setups. As an example there is only about 10 or 11 grams per motor I can hack off a 540 before they start becoming more space heater and less motor. Continued hacking may cause the overall rig performance to increase while the motor performance continues to decrease. In the same way, making a rig lighter will have many balance points to consider.


I would not go so far as to say there is a definitive point that we cannot go under. Imho- tires, foams, and linkage geometry will have to have continued improvement for the weight to continue dropping with increasing performance. There aren't any major hurdles otherwise. Making the low hanging fruit lighter is easy. I can't say that drilling holes in something or cutting things in half is somehow new and fresh. Making a lighter rig hook up IS a huge deal though, the guys that are working on the important bits are really the pioneers in the area.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:45 AM   #19
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

^^^x2 at weight is it going to be too light. I have my rig at 4lb 13 oz and still have lots to shave and am finding improvements in performance every time I lose some more weight. Some things are getting alot easier and others require a little more thinking but are easier once you see the right line. I'm trying to get to (not very hard mind you) 4lbs 6oz and think that will be my magic weight.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:34 PM   #20
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Default Re: Who has the lightest Berg

I have seen a couple of types of obstacles or gates that only a sub 5lb rig could do easily and constantly. I have yet to really find anything that a 4lb rig will do that a 4.5lb rig won't though. I think the difference 8oz makes in two lighter trucks is less than the difference 8oz makes in heavier trucks. Does that make sense?
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